Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Jrb1979]

Let’s forget the back and forth for one second.

I’m going to join team mitigation to try to understand it.

According to a recent study Delta is 300% more contagious than the previous strains.

Ok so let’s mask back up.

Now since I truly care about peoples well being and not just signaling, shouldn’t I know how effective masks are when it comes to Delta.

What if this new strain is so contagious that even if 2 people are masked they can still easily enough transmit the virus.

If that’s the case then the next logical step would be social distancing coming back.

Maybe that’s not enough either - 300% is very contagious.

Ok so now what?

I’m on team mitigation but how far do we go?

How far are we willing to go to try to stop something that maybe just maybe can’t be stopped unless you get your vaccine?

Before I get blasted I realize that masking and social distancing will SLOW the spread.

But can it be stopped? If no what’s the point?

Unless hospitals are overwhelmed I don’t see one, but I’m happy to stay on team mitigation if someone can lay out an argument for why slowing not stopping the spread is still critical to humanity’s future.

Like many you ignore the white elephant in the room. Its not about mitigations for those vaccinated, it's about those not vaccinated. The attitude of "since I'm vaccinated I don't care" doesn't help.

It's too late now but what should have been done til you hit a high percentage of people vaccinated is places of large gatherings only vaccinated will be allowed in.

 

[Disorbust]

Accordingly to the CDC .01 percent of children infected have died of corona virus.

They have a infinitely greater chance of dying from day to day things that may be out of your control like a drunk driver or a shark attack.

Yes but they are "spreaders".

 

[MorphinePrince]

Ahhh, you’re ever the pessimist. So far there is no concrete evidence that natural or vaccine based immunity fades that fast. It’s your theory (hope?) that it does but so far in all the actual studies done natural immunity has held for over a year. We are coming up on a full year for the vaccine trial participants and so far there hasn’t been any evidence released showing the vaccine effectiveness has faded. Your narrative now sounds a lot like the Covid denial crowd who said we will never reach herd immunity or have an effective vaccine so we just need to learn to live with the virus. Maybe they were right??? It saddens me to see how many people want to downplay or dismiss the power and effectiveness of these vaccines. It is what it is and it shouldn’t surprise me anymore.

This Is How Long You're Immune to COVID After Recovering, New Study Says

Research has shown that those who survive a brush with COVID-19 can suffer long-lasting effects such as brain fog, fatigue, and shortness of breath. But it turns out there may be a sole potential benefit to having contracted the virus. According to a new study published in the journal JAMA...

www.yahoo.com

That was a great article, thanks for sharing! I guess I have double the protection now, vaccinated AND naturally immune from covid since I had it in January

 

[drizgirl]

Boosters not being recommended at this time.

2021-12-30 15:27 | Archive of HHS.gov

www.hhs.gov

"Americans who have been fully vaccinated do not need a booster shot at this time. FDA, CDC, and NIH are engaged in a science-based, rigorous process to consider whether or when a booster might be necessary. This process takes into account laboratory data, clinical trial data, and cohort data – which can include data from specific pharmaceutical companies, but does not rely on those data exclusively. We continue to review any new data as it becomes available and will keep the public informed. We are prepared for booster doses if and when the science demonstrates that they are needed."

 

[havoc315]

Ahhh, you’re ever the pessimist.

No, I follow the science and the studies. That’s why I said we wouldn’t reach 70% of American adults by the end of July when you were swearing that mid June was the worst case scenario. Why I warned of the current rise we are seeing… first in the UK, now here… when you were saying there was no rise.

So far there is no concrete evidence that natural or vaccine based immunity fades that fast.

Read the peer reviewed studies. Lots of evidence. Nothing will be concrete until it’s already too late. We won’t have “concrete” evidence of the effectiveness of vaccines after 1 year… until early/mid 2022, when a huge number of people will have been vaccinated.

It’s your theory (hope?) that it does but so far in all the actual studies done natural immunity has held for over a year. We are coming up on a full year for the vaccine trial participants and so far there hasn’t been any evidence released showing the vaccine effectiveness has faded. Your narrative now sounds a lot like the Covid denial crowd who said we will never reach herd immunity

we aren’t at herd immunity. I did think it was possible — I cited Israel. Turns out, I was way too optimistic. Israel isn’t at herd immunity either.

Sorry I’m not as optimistic as you. But where I’ve been wrong — it’s from being too optimistic. I was wrong in thinking Israel reached herd immunity. I admit when I’m wrong, learn from it, and adjust

“While protection against severe disease remained high across the full 6 months, the observed decline in efficacy against symptomatic disease over time and the continued emergence of variants are key factors driving our belief that a booster dose will likely be necessary to maintain highest levels of protection.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/health/delta-variant-vaccines/2021/07/08/05b1bc5e-df75-11eb-ae31-6b7c5c34f0d6_story.html%3FoutputType%3Damp

or have an effective vaccine so we just need to learn to live with the virus. Maybe they were right??? It saddens me to see how many people want to downplay or dismiss the power and effectiveness of these vaccines.

When have I ever downplayed their effectiveness?!?? I’m advocating for a booster shot because they ARE effective. Why would I be wanting more of it, if it was ineffective!

But guess what — they aren’t magic. It’s not 1 shot and you are 100% protected from all variants forever. We should be HONEST and TRUTHFUL. You need the second shot — 1 shot doesn’t offer much protection at all against Delta. And there likely will come a point where boosters are necessary. That’s not questioning the effectiveness of vaccines — it’s just being honest.

It is what it is and it shouldn’t surprise me anymore.

This Is How Long You're Immune to COVID After Recovering, New Study Says

Research has shown that those who survive a brush with COVID-19 can suffer long-lasting effects such as brain fog, fatigue, and shortness of breath. But it turns out there may be a sole potential benefit to having contracted the virus. According to a new study published in the journal JAMA...

www.yahoo.com

 

[DisneyFan32]

No, I follow the science and the studies. That’s why I said we wouldn’t reach 70% of American adults by the end of July when you were swearing that mid June was the worst case scenario. Why I warned of the current rise we are seeing… first in the UK, now here… when you were saying there was no rise.




Read the peer reviewed studies. Lots of evidence. Nothing will be concrete until it’s already too late. We won’t have “concrete” evidence of the effectiveness of vaccines after 1 year… until early/mid 2022, when a huge number of people will have been vaccinated.



we aren’t at herd immunity. I did think it was possible — I cited Israel. Turns out, I was way too optimistic. Israel isn’t at herd immunity either.

Sorry I’m not as optimistic as you. But where I’ve been wrong — it’s from being too optimistic. I was wrong in thinking Israel reached herd immunity. I admit when I’m wrong, learn from it, and adjust

“While protection against severe disease remained high across the full 6 months, the observed decline in efficacy against symptomatic disease over time and the continued emergence of variants are key factors driving our belief that a booster dose will likely be necessary to maintain highest levels of protection.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/health/delta-variant-vaccines/2021/07/08/05b1bc5e-df75-11eb-ae31-6b7c5c34f0d6_story.html%3FoutputType%3Damp

When have I ever downplayed their effectiveness?!?? I’m advocating for a booster shot because they ARE effective. Why would I be wanting more of it, if it was ineffective!

But guess what — they aren’t magic. It’s not 1 shot and you are 100% protected from all variants forever. We should be HONEST and TRUTHFUL. You need the second shot — 1 shot doesn’t offer much protection at all against Delta. And there likely will come a point where boosters are necessary. That’s not questioning the effectiveness of vaccines — it’s just being honest.

Is the pandemic will gonna ending soon in USA this year, as the rest pandemic continues for rest of the world?

 

[dreday3]

Like many you ignore the white elephant in the room. Its not about mitigations for those vaccinated, it's about those not vaccinated. The attitude of "since I'm vaccinated I don't care" doesn't help.

It's too late now but what should have been done til you hit a high percentage of people vaccinated is places of large gatherings only vaccinated will be allowed in.

The main issue here (outside of children) isn't that people can't get vaccinated, but rather they are choosing not to get vaccinated. So yes, at some point, they are on their own. At this point, there is no variant that is causing severe illness in vaccinated people (always will be outliers).

So yes, I'm all for not allowing unvaccinated (by choice) in any business that chooses to enforce unless they mask up.
Time for a vaccine passport.

 

[DonniePeverley]

Big rise in cases today.

There really needs to be more done to get people vaccinated .... be this vaccine passports to get into places, travel, etc At the moment i don't see much being done. In Europe we have vaccine passports, so without being vaccinated you can't travel or get on a plane.

The no mask mandate is wreckless.

 

[Trauma]

Ok so let’s try to all agree on some stuff.

The vaccine is the most effective form of mitigation.

It looks like with Delta the vaccine has lost at least some level of efficacy.

Ok if we can all agree on those two things let’s continue.

Is it not safe to assume that with Delta other forms of mitigation have also lost efficacy ?

What if people are masking and social distancing thinking they are protected and that’s not true at all?

What if Delta cares very little about your mask?

We don’t seem to know these things because all the numbers are now focused on the vaccine.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Is it not safe to assume that with Delta other forms of mitigation have also lost efficacy ?

What if people are masking and social distancing thinking they are protected and that’s not true at all?

What if Delta cares very little about your mask?

Why should this be assumed? How does Delta change the physical properties and behavior of respiratory droplets?

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

What if people are masking and social distancing thinking they are protected and that’s not true at all?

How would masks and social distancing not help the spread of Covid?

 

[GoofGoof]

No, I follow the science and the studies. That’s why I said we wouldn’t reach 70% of American adults by the end of July when you were swearing that mid June was the worst case scenario. Why I warned of the current rise we are seeing… first in the UK, now here… when you were saying there was no rise.




Read the peer reviewed studies. Lots of evidence. Nothing will be concrete until it’s already too late. We won’t have “concrete” evidence of the effectiveness of vaccines after 1 year… until early/mid 2022, when a huge number of people will have been vaccinated.



we aren’t at herd immunity. I did think it was possible — I cited Israel. Turns out, I was way too optimistic. Israel isn’t at herd immunity either.

Sorry I’m not as optimistic as you. But where I’ve been wrong — it’s from being too optimistic. I was wrong in thinking Israel reached herd immunity. I admit when I’m wrong, learn from it, and adjust

“While protection against severe disease remained high across the full 6 months, the observed decline in efficacy against symptomatic disease over time and the continued emergence of variants are key factors driving our belief that a booster dose will likely be necessary to maintain highest levels of protection.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/health/delta-variant-vaccines/2021/07/08/05b1bc5e-df75-11eb-ae31-6b7c5c34f0d6_story.html%3FoutputType%3Damp

When have I ever downplayed their effectiveness?!?? I’m advocating for a booster shot because they ARE effective. Why would I be wanting more of it, if it was ineffective!

But guess what — they aren’t magic. It’s not 1 shot and you are 100% protected from all variants forever. We should be HONEST and TRUTHFUL. You need the second shot — 1 shot doesn’t offer much protection at all against Delta. And there likely will come a point where boosters are necessary. That’s not questioning the effectiveness of vaccines — it’s just being honest.

Sorry but saying the vaccines only last a few months is saying they aren’t effective. The vast majority of Americans have been vaccinated in the last 6 months so if we all need boosters now then the vaccines last less than 6 months.

 

[Flugell]

Regarding booster jabs, it has already been announced in the U.K. that boosters will be offered to the over 50’s and the clinically vulnerable from September. This may well be a different vaccine to the one originally administered. I am really happy with this scenario- being over 50! It also feels, for the first time ever, that we’re trying to get ahead of the virus and not merely responding to it!

Covid: NHS plans booster jab for those 50 and over before winter

The UK's vaccine committee says winter could see spikes in flu and Covid, putting pressure on the NHS.

www.bbc.co.uk

If we wait and see how long the vaccination or immunity from catching COVID-19 lasts then aren’t we likely to be back in the same situation we were at the start of the pandemic?
This is not a doom and gloom post, in fact quite the opposite, but merely intended to offer a different perspective on the potential benefit of boosters.

 

[Trauma]

Why should this be assumed? How does Delta change the physical properties and behavior of respiratory droplets?

It’s more contagious because you have about 4 times the viral load.

Greater chance to spread thru the mask is it not?

 

[Trauma]

How would masks and social distancing not help the spread of Covid?

There is a difference between slowing the spread and being protected at a reasonable enough level to feel safe partaking in normal day to day activities.

 

[GoofGoof]

Why should this be assumed? How does Delta change the physical properties and behavior of respiratory droplets?

For distancing I agree. Unless the variant figured out how to stay airborne longer. With masks there was always a level of virus that got through, but the load was significantly reduced enough to greatly reduce the chance of infection. They were never perfect but if the new variant has a higher viral load they may be even less effective. Not saying masks can’t help, they obviously would be better than no mask.

 

[Trauma]

Good grief everyone here always jumping to point out when vaccines become 1% less effective but no one can come to the conclusion that maybe masks don’t work as well against delta?

That’s all I’m saying.

Wouldn’t you want to know this if you really don’t want to catch it?

If your immunocompromised shouldn’t you have some idea how risky it is for you to leave the house?

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Sorry but saying the vaccines only last a few months is saying they aren’t effective.

That’s not what anyone is saying unless I missed a post?

 

[GoofGoof]

That’s not what anyone is saying unless I missed a post?

You missed a post. I said if delta is so contagious and rips through the unvaccinated as people have suggested then in 6 months once all kids are approved and vaccinated we would have enough people either vaccinated or naturally immune to reach a high level of overall immunity, maybe even enough for herd immunity. The counter he made is the immunity from the vaccines will have faded by then and natural immunity will too so we will never reach a high enough level of immunity.

 

[GoofGoof]

Good grief everyone here always jumping to point out when vaccines become 1% less effective but no one can come to the conclusion that maybe masks don’t work as well against delta?

That’s all I’m saying.

Wouldn’t you want to know this if you really don’t want to catch it?

If your immunocompromised shouldn’t you have some idea how risky it is for you to leave the house?

It is a valid question. I still think masks are better than nothing and since we dropped masks a lot of places it will be harder to study. Your point is a very valid about the vaccines. Some people look for any shred of evidence they are less effective to highlight even while saying they believe in the vaccines. Strange narrative to cling to but who am I to judge at this point. Like a lot of things with Covid…it is what it is