Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[LittleBuford]

I just find it really strange that on a thread that's supposed to be about the Corona virus and Walt Disney World, we have pages and pages of discussion about wearing masks in public.... It doesn't even seem to be geared towards Disney anymore?

Wouldn’t you consider being in a crowded theme park equivalent to (indeed “worse” than) being in public?

 

[Trauma]

A state where the employer is prohibited from asking employees their

True, but that's not Disney World or Universal.... I actually just read the CDC website again. It does state that you should wear a mask on all indoor forms of transportation, but otherwise it pretty plainly states you can resume life as normal while adhering to local, state, and federal governmental laws and regulations. I just find it really strange that on a thread that's supposed to be about the Corona virus and Walt Disney World, we have pages and pages of discussion about wearing masks in public.... It doesn't even seem to be geared towards Disney anymore?

Well that simplifies things.

If you don’t like the rules at Disney don’t go.

/end thread

 

[KrzyKtty]

Wouldn’t you consider being in a crowded theme park equivalent to (indeed “worse” than) being in public?

My point is that it's not really focused on the parks. People are talking in general now. Besides my one or two posts alluding to it, I haven't heard anybody mention the park in pages.

I mean what is the end goal here? What are we even debating anymore? Most people I've seen on the thread agree that people should get vaccinated. Almost everybody I've seen respond in the last couple of pages have stated that they are vaccinated. The parks are following CDC guidance. And we have no control over anybody else who decides not to... So where are we going with this discussion?

Most people that are going to get vaccinated have already started the process. I am not going to start walking down the street evangelizing about the damn covid vaccine. I'm not going to develop a mask bazooka and start shooting every face I see not masked. Although I'm sure that would be self satisfying and hilarious.

So at the end of the day, I don't understand why people don't just say okay I'm going to take personal responsibility and do my life my way. I'm going to go to the park, I'm not going to go to the park, I'm going to wear my mask even while I'm vaccinated, I'm never wearing my mask again.... We have no control over anybody besides ourselves. I'm not even going to fool myself into thinking I have real control over my 8-year-old. I only have the control over her that she decides to allow me to have... It's a mutual agreement thing and it doesn't always go in my favor.

I live in a state where less than 40% of the population is fully vaccinated, and just about 100% of it is walking around without a mask. It is what it is. I sent my daughter off to summer camp with her mask, and I'm pretty damn sure she's not wearing it as soon as she gets away from me. Luckily she spends most of her time hiking outdoors, playing on playgrounds, and generally in outdoor settings. Also for as unvaccinated as we are, we surprisingly have a very low transmission rate right now. So it's just part of life. Everybody's going to do their own thing. Just get back to posting about the new covid rules at Disney World, and the measures they're currently taking, and what we're supposed to do to prepare for a trip there.

 

[hopemax]

Also, I am curious. I thought it was very rare for a virus to mutate to something more deadly (against it's nature - wants to survive). More easily transmissible, yes, but I thought more deadly was rare.

Is Delta variant more deadly or it's just affecting the more vulnerable which makes it seem more deadly?

Unknown. The question is if the increase in the number of infections, can account for the increase of bad outcomes. And as the spread is ongoing the numbers aren’t in.

If you do the math, more transmissible is bad enough and leads to more bad outcomes faster than more deadly after several cycles of transmission. That’s why when asked, the experts are so concerned about increases in transmissibility. Anyway you slice it, Delta is bad for the unvaccinated parts of the world.

Another thing is that when people talk about how viruses evolve, they are usually talking about what happens after years of circulation. We aren’t there yet, we’re still in the period where the virus is mutating to achieve peak fitness, so more outcomes are on the table. Once the virus has achieved peak fitness it will continue to mutate and the general theory will probably come into play. The next 6 months could be worse in terms of transmission, lethality and/or evasion, while over a human generation or two it evolves into an inconvenience. Sure, the virus isn’t trying to become more virulent but it could stumble its way into it as an unintended side effect.

What is amazing to consider is that this is the first time that humans are able to watch a novel virus evolve in real time and track it with such detail and precision. We get to see first hand if simple statements about “what always happens” are true, or if there is more unpredictability in nature than we are aware of because we didn’t have the tools, opportunity and motivation before.

 

[LittleBuford]

My point is that it's not really focused on the parks. People are talking in general now. Besides my one or two posts alluding to it, I haven't heard anybody mention the park in pages.

I mean what is the end goal here? What are we even debating anymore? Most people I've seen on the thread agree that people should get vaccinated. Almost everybody I've seen respond in the last couple of pages have stated that they are vaccinated. The parks are following CDC guidance. And we have no control over anybody else who decides not to... So where are we going with this discussion?

Despite its title, this thread has long been a place for general Covid discussion. The moderators have tolerated its off-topic nature, even allowing it to get fully political for a few months, and I think most of us are grateful to have a space in which to talk, learn, and vent about Covid without having to relate everything to Disney.

 

[October82]

My point is that it's not really focused on the parks. People are talking in general now. Besides my one or two posts alluding to it, I haven't heard anybody mention the park in pages.

I mean what is the end goal here? What are we even debating anymore? Most people I've seen on the thread agree that people should get vaccinated. Almost everybody I've seen respond in the last couple of pages have stated that they are vaccinated. The parks are following CDC guidance. And we have no control over anybody else who decides not to... So where are we going with this discussion?

Most people that are going to get vaccinated have already started the process. I am not going to start walking down the street evangelizing about the damn covid vaccine. I'm not going to develop a mask bazooka and start shooting every face I see not masked. Although I'm sure that would be self satisfying and hilarious.

So at the end of the day, I don't understand why people don't just say okay I'm going to take personal responsibility and do my life my way. I'm going to go to the park, I'm not going to go to the park, I'm going to wear my mask even while I'm vaccinated, I'm never wearing my mask again.... We have no control over anybody besides ourselves. I'm not even going to fool myself into thinking I have real control over my 8-year-old. I only have the control over her that she decides to allow me to have... It's a mutual agreement thing and it doesn't always go in my favor.

I live in a state where less than 40% of the population is fully vaccinated, and just about 100% of it is walking around without a mask. It is what it is. I sent my daughter off to summer camp with her mask, and I'm pretty damn sure she's not wearing it as soon as she gets away from me. Luckily she spends most of her time hiking outdoors, playing on playgrounds, and generally in outdoor settings. Also for as unvaccinated as we are, we surprisingly have a very low transmission rate right now. So it's just part of life. Everybody's going to do their own thing. Just get back to posting about the new covid rules at Disney World, and the measures they're currently taking, and what we're supposed to do to prepare for a trip there.

Because we're talking about a social issue. Our actions impact those around us. While you should also take responsibility for your personal situation, that does not substitute for (or negate) what others are doing.

 

[KrzyKtty]

Because we're talking about a social issue. Our actions impact those around us. While you should also take responsibility for your personal situation, that does not substitute for (or negate) what others are doing.

I really do get that, at the end of the day I guess I just don't see the point in getting my blood pressure up over something I have no control over. I have no control over Jimmy John if he's going to be a dumba.., So I'm just going to have to let that go and live my best life.

 

[CosmicRays]

As far as the variant or future variants, what level of cases would be the number for places like Disney to reimplement safety measures I wonder?

 

[Flugell]

I really do get that, at the end of the day I guess I just don't see the point in getting my blood pressure up over something I have no control over. I have no control over Jimmy John if he's going to be a dumba.., So I'm just going to have to let that go and live my best life.

Agreed but would like to add a caveat to your last sentence- and behave in a way to allow and assist others to live their best life too!

 

[KrzyKtty]

As far as the variant or future variants, what level of cases would be the number for places like Disney to reimplement safety measures I wonder?

I'd actually be a little bit surprised if they do at all. So much of this has become so highly political, that they might not have much control over their own decisions considering the way Florida laws are going in response to the virus.

I'm in South Carolina, not Florida, but just for comparison it didn't matter how high the numbers jumped in December in January. They were easily 10 times higher than when we originally went into lockdown in March and April. My state government refused to go back into lockdown or reenact any sort of measure ever. Not saying I agreed with the decision, but it's just the nature of the beast.

And even after that, Disney is still a corporation that needs profits. They're only going to do the bare minimum of what they think they have to do.

 

[havoc315]

True, but that's not Disney World or Universal.... I actually just read the CDC website again. It does state that you should wear a mask on all indoor forms of transportation, but otherwise it pretty plainly states you can resume life as normal while adhering to local, state, and federal governmental laws and regulations.

Yes— and adhering to any ordinances on the state or local level, or imposed by the particular business.

I just find it really strange that on a thread that's supposed to be about the Corona virus and Walt Disney World, we have pages and pages of discussion about wearing masks in public.... It doesn't even seem to be geared towards Disney anymore?

 

[KrzyKtty]

Agreed but would like to add a caveat to your last sentence- and behave in a way to allow and assist others to live their best life too!

Everybody that is legally allowed to get vaccinated in my family is fully vaccinated and has been for quite some time...

 

[havoc315]

Well that simplifies things.

If you don’t like the rules at Disney don’t go.

/end thread

On that, I’ll agree. And unvaccinated adults are being especially irresponsible if they do go.

 

[KrzyKtty]

Yes— and adhering to any ordinances on the state or local level, or imposed by the particular business.

That's pretty much what I meant by following all laws and regulations on your local state and federal levels. I just didn't bother to copy every single word from their website. Sorry if it was not clear.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Not an impenetrable shield is an important point. In many areas, it was an even more important 5 months ago when spread was much higher.

Combine that with this map.
View attachment 567413

Someone in a blue low transmission are, the vaccine is probably all the mitigation needed. Someone unvaccinated, good ventilation is probably enough too.

Someone in a high area though, it's more questionable. Some extra mitigation beyond the vaccine is probably a good idea when in poorly ventilated areas with unknown people.

If it's raining, and the vaccine is a rain coat. In a light rain, it's more than enough. In a stronger downpour, having an umbrella too would be nice. If it's a hurricane, both may still not be enough to keep you completely dry.

From that map, I don't think there's a hurricane level of transmission anywhere in the US. Perhaps MO is trending towards that.

What's going on with the polka dot pattern in Iowa? Looks like feast or famine there.

 

[danlb_2000]

A state where the employer is prohibited from asking employees their vaccination status...

Are there states where they can't ask?

 

[mmascari]

Also, I am curious. I thought it was very rare for a virus to mutate to something more deadly (against it's nature - wants to survive). More easily transmissible, yes, but I thought more deadly was rare.

Is Delta variant more deadly or it's just affecting the more vulnerable which makes it seem more deadly?

I think this is an over simplification of how a virus mutates and it's relationship to deadly, and that simplification hides the meaning.

It's bad for a virus to mutate so that it kills people before they can transmit the infection to someone else. (From the virus's perspective.) That's not the same as not mutating to be more deadly than a current iteration.

In the COVID example, with the long transmission window before it kills off the host, there's lots of room for a mutation that's more deadly before it's killing off people faster than it can spread.

There's no sign of this today. Just that we cannot say it will not happen because that's "not the way" viruses evolve.

We know that Delta spreads "better" than other variants. I'm not aware of any other differences being reported. Right now, other impacts appear to be because of larger numbers not other differences.

 

[danlb_2000]

I have been watching the Loki series on Disney+ and wondering if they now regret using the term "variant". It was probably a much more innocuous term when the series was filmed.

 

[KrzyKtty]

Are there states where they can't ask?

Don't quote me on this, but I don't think that there is any state where you legally can't ask at all. Many states, like Florida, have protections in place for employees if they choose not to get vaccinated. So while the employer can ask, the employee is not actually obligated to answer.

 

[Heppenheimer]

I live in a highly conservative state and that's already affecting people in my job. I'm a government contractor. My employer can't require people to get vaccinated, but the project our employees work on requires a lot of international travel. There is an illusion of choice for the employees regarding if they will get vaccinated or not, but not really. Because at the end of the day our government customer is refusing to send people on international travel, and therefore paying to quarantine them in that country, if they have vaccinated people available to them that would not require a quarantine. Basically, if Italy says vaccinated people can come right in but unvaccinated people need to quarantine for 10 days, guess who the government is going to send? And if they can't send you, and your job is to be able to travel, what good are you? And if you're not any good for the job you're hired for, why are we going to keep you? At that point it's not even really being fired for not getting vaccinated, it's being fired for not being able to perform your job. And you can't perform your job because you are costing the government more money by your choice.

Sounds a lot like the military, except if they can't deploy you, you get med boarded, not outright discharged.