Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[AEfx]

I am concerned that people have already decided it MUST be a lab leak and any evidence to the contrary is proof of the extent of the conspiracy.

What you are seeing is a response to the exact opposite.

Even though it was absurd to dismiss it so quickly, being as the virus was traced to Wuhan, and Wuhan just happens to have one of the most prominent virus research labs in the world, it was absolutely dismissed by the media and medical establishment as crazy wackoo conspiracy theories if anyone dared ask a question about it. There was a religious furor around it, like everyone was a complete moron for even questioning it. Every single talking head on TV, "medical" or not, was spouting the same lines.

The truth is, we don't know for sure yet - but instead of being honest with us about that, the media and medical community completely dismissed the question to begin with. It was either a coordinated "messaging" effort (pretty obvious as all the white coat talking heads on TV were saying the exact same lines), or they were crap scientists who made absolute statements about its origin when the evidence wasn't in yet, in order to control what people thought about it. That's what makes people suspicious, and rightfully so. In several instances now with this virus, we see where the "experts" are not there to deliver the latest and newest information, but to coordinate their messaging in order to make us believe what they want us to believe, and they tell us what we think will make us behave in the way they wish.

It's smelled bad since the very beginning. While if the virus was enhanced by the lab or simply escaped or not is yet to be determined, I absolutely cannot blame people for being very suspicious when we were fed what now seems like a wacky story about a "wet market" that just happened to pass the virus to people, which just happened to be within virtually feet and inches of a virology lab that was known to study these viruses.

What I think is dangerous is how so many people lost their common sense in analyzing the situation that was presented to us, and because of their political leanings went full force into yelling and screaming at everyone who thought differently how stupid they were. Not to mention, the power of Facebook/Twitter in that they wouldn't even allow people to discuss the possibility that this escaped from a lab - it's really, really scary that private companies get to dictate what is "real" or not, or what topics we should question or not.

 

[SamusAranX]

As long as people are willing to accept evidence that it wasn’t a lab leak even if it takes years, with the same fervor that they are falling over themselves with now. Zoonotic, comparatively, will be boring and time consuming and not the stuff that tickles the fancy of theorists. I am concerned that people have already decided it MUST be a lab leak and any evidence to the contrary is proof of the extent of the conspiracy.

I will accept wherever the evidence leads, even it's the "boring" option

 

[MaryJaneP]

Does anyone else look forward to the video that will undoubtedly be released of some chucklehead in EPCOT accidentally trying to drink and forgetting that the chucklehead still has a mask on, kinda like Ted Stryker's drinking problem on the movie "Airplane"?

 

[Jrb1979]

Trudeau: Canada Is Working On A Phased Reopening — But Only For Vaccinated Visitors

What a difference a week makes. There’s now good reason for travelers to be optimistic about a June reopening of the U.S.-Canada border.

www.forbes.com

Looks like a vaccine passport will be required to enter Canada when they do reopen the border.

 

[seascape]

You misunderstood that when I said don’t respond, I was referring to only the final bit about the timing of the sudden media interest in the US. To save some headaches for the thread mods.

As to your point, there is plenty of evidence of things that “China did wrong,”without needing there to be a lab leak. I don’t think China wants the World messing around in the lab, I don’t think China wants the World messing around in their markets, and I don’t think China wants the World messing around in their animal, especially the fur animal, trade. If the alternative hypothesis, that this originated in the horrible conditions found in the fur farms, it will be the final nail in fur’s coffin for the International community. China resisted the recommendations concerning animal handling and food, and this becomes another battleground in the “World is coming to destroy China’s way of life.”

Poor conditions for the animals, people have tolerated, in many countries including our own, but reservoirs of disease with potential of setting off global pandemics at a frequency we won’t tolerate is another thing. Problem is, once we accept the danger of these types of farms and slaughtering facilities in China, then the rest of us would have to evaluate how those things operate in our own countries which would not go over well. A lab leak conveniently leaves us off the hook for the need for self-examination and preparation for the next one.

I don't want to dictate to China or any other country how to run themselves. However. America, Europe and the rest of the world are responsible for whatever business they do with China. That means we are responsible for things China does in a lab we are paying for. Not just the work being done specifically called for in the contract but all operations. We are also responsible for all pollution coming from factories that supply items to us. And the slave labor used to supply us with cheap goods. I think if China is not going to follow our standards, we shouldn't do business with them but the choice must be theirs and not ours. We don't have to do business with China and China doesn't have to do business with us but if we mutually agree to do business together we are both fully responsible for the ramifications. And don't think for one minute that exporting manufacturing and pollution to China is not harmful to our environment and standard of living.

 

[GimpYancIent]

I don't want to dictate to China or any other country how to run themselves. However. America, Europe and the rest of the world are responsible for whatever business they do with China. That means we are responsible for things China does in a lab we are paying for. Not just the work being done specifically called for in the contract but all operations. We are also responsible for all pollution coming from factories that supply items to us. And the slave labor used to supply us with cheap goods. I think if China is not going to follow our standards, we shouldn't do business with them but the choice must be theirs and not ours. We don't have to do business with China and China doesn't have to do business with us but if we mutually agree to do business together we are both fully responsible for the ramifications. And don't think for one minute that exporting manufacturing and pollution to China is not harmful to our environment and standard of living.

 

[danlb_2000]

Does anyone else look forward to the video that will undoubtedly be released of some chucklehead in EPCOT accidentally trying to drink and forgetting that the chucklehead still has a mask on, kinda like Ted Stryker's drinking problem on the movie "Airplane"?

I went out for ice cream a few weeks ago and for the first time since the start of the pandemic I got it in a cone. When it was handed to me I instinctively went to take a lick but stopped before it hit my mask.

 

[GimpYancIent]

Trudeau: Canada Is Working On A Phased Reopening — But Only For Vaccinated Visitors

What a difference a week makes. There’s now good reason for travelers to be optimistic about a June reopening of the U.S.-Canada border.

www.forbes.com

Looks like a vaccine passport will be required to enter Canada when they do reopen the border.

Thought it was the Canadian's that wanted to enter the U.S. (i.e. go to W.D.W.) not the other way around.

 

[GoofGoof]

Thought it was the Canadian's that wanted to enter the U.S. (i.e. go to W.D.W.) not the other way around.

I would assume it works both ways. If you are Canadian and unvaccinated the US won’t stop you from entering but your own government won’t let you come back.

 

[GimpYancIent]

I would assume it works both ways. If you are Canadian and unvaccinated the US won’t stop you from entering but your own government won’t let you come back.

Kind of like being exiled.

 

[GoofGoof]

Kind of like being exiled.

Does that make the US a leper colony? We take your unvaccinated masses and allow them to spread Covid freely without judgement or restriction.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

I would assume it works both ways. If you are Canadian and unvaccinated the US won’t stop you from entering but your own government won’t let you come back.

There's no rule that says people can't return to Canada from the USA or anywhere. The rule is that returnees by air have to quarantine, at their own cost, in a hotel for three days, pass a COVID test, and then quarantine at home for two weeks. Land travelers have to quarantine at home.

Some people have chosen to fly to the USA and return via land to avoid the costly hotel piece.

Travel is technically still allowed, there are simply mechanisms in place to make it highly undesirable.

It doesn't sound like vaccine passports will necessarily become a permanent requirement, but possibly only a temporary measure where the entry requirements (quarantine) are still in place, but proof of vaccine could allow the bypassing of that requirement.

Canada has been more conservative than the USA in loosening COVID restrictions, so my guess is the border closure will be extended into at least July. At that point Canada will be well into second dose territory. I can see the border possibly opening in August, and probably by September.

 

[GimpYancIent]

Does that make the US a leper colony? We take your unvaccinated masses and allow them to spread Covid freely without judgement or restriction.

Well this old quote "“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.” can now be modified to include the unvaccinated. No?

 

[GoofGoof]

Well this old quote "“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.” can now be modified to include the unvaccinated. No?

And they can breathe free without a mask too

 

[GoofGoof]

There's no rule that says people can't return to Canada from the USA or anywhere. The rule is that returnees by air have to quarantine, at their own cost, in a hotel for three days, pass a COVID test, and then quarantine at home for two weeks. Land travelers have to quarantine at home.

Some people have chosen to fly to the USA and return via land to avoid the costly hotel piece.

Travel is technically still allowed, there are simply mechanisms in place to make it highly undesirable.

It doesn't sound like vaccine passports will necessarily become a permanent requirement, but possibly only a temporary measure where the entry requirements (quarantine) are still in place, but proof of vaccine could allow the bypassing of that requirement.

Canada has been more conservative than the USA in loosening COVID restrictions, so my guess is the border closure will be extended into at least July. At that point Canada will be well into second dose territory. I can see the border possibly opening in August, and probably by September.

Right, I was joking about not being allowed back in. You just won’t be allowed to go freely back and forth without following a protocol. I think it’s a good idea to do for everyone for border crossings.

 

[Jrb1979]

Right, I was joking about not being allowed back in. You just won’t be allowed to go freely back and forth without following a protocol. I think it’s a good idea to do for everyone for border crossings.

Manitoba unveils immunization cards for fully vaccinated people

The Manitoba government is unveiling a new way for Manitobans to prove they have been fully vaccinated against COVID-19.

winnipeg.ctvnews.ca

Looks like it will also required to travel between provinces too. I'm sure if 1 does it the rest will follow.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Right, I was joking about not being allowed back in. You just won’t be allowed to go freely back and forth without following a protocol. I think it’s a good idea to do for everyone for border crossings.

In some cases it's as close to a "return ban" as possible without actually being one (it would be illegal to prevent citizens from returning home).

There are some Canadian families who got stranded in India when direct flights were banned. They now have to travel via connecting countries and pass COVID tests along the way. Some of them got what they deserved quite frankly, choosing to travel to attend a funeral despite warnings that leaving the country posed the risk of flight and entry restrictions changing at any time.

 

[Jrb1979]

In some cases it's as close to a "return ban" as possible without actually being one (it would be illegal to prevent citizens from returning home).

There are some Canadian families who got stranded in India when direct flights were banned. They now have to travel via connecting countries and pass COVID tests along the way. Some of them got what they deserved quite frankly, choosing to travel to attend a funeral despite warnings that leaving the country posed the risk of flight and entry restrictions changing at any time.

What got me was that when this all started the amount of FORMER Canadians (ones who have decided to leave Canada permanently) all of a sudden wanted to come back.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Manitoba unveils immunization cards for fully vaccinated people

The Manitoba government is unveiling a new way for Manitobans to prove they have been fully vaccinated against COVID-19.

winnipeg.ctvnews.ca

Looks like it will also required to travel between provinces too. I'm sure if 1 does it the rest will follow.

I don't see this happening. With COVID cases falling I don't see why there would be more restrictions on travel within Canada.

It's also not really feasible, or even legal? BC for example, has some restrictions on travel within the province to avoid spread, but does not prevent anyone from Alberta driving across the border. Provinces can apparently limit their own residents, but not place restrictions on people from out of province.

 

[hopemax]

What you are seeing is a response to the exact opposite.

Even though it was absurd to dismiss it so quickly, being as the virus was traced to Wuhan, and Wuhan just happens to have one of the most prominent virus research labs in the world, it was absolutely dismissed by the media and medical establishment as crazy wackoo conspiracy theories if anyone dared ask a question about it. There was a religious furor around it, like everyone was a complete moron for even questioning it. Every single talking head on TV, "medical" or not, was spouting the same lines.

The truth is, we don't know for sure yet - but instead of being honest with us about that, the media and medical community completely dismissed the question to begin with. It was either a coordinated "messaging" effort (pretty obvious as all the white coat talking heads on TV were saying the exact same lines), or they were crap scientists who made absolute statements about its origin when the evidence wasn't in yet, in order to control what people thought about it. That's what makes people suspicious, and rightfully so. In several instances now with this virus, we see where the "experts" are not there to deliver the latest and newest information, but to coordinate their messaging in order to make us believe what they want us to believe, and they tell us what we think will make us behave in the way they wish.

It's smelled bad since the very beginning. While if the virus was enhanced by the lab or simply escaped or not is yet to be determined, I absolutely cannot blame people for being very suspicious when we were fed what now seems like a wacky story about a "wet market" that just happened to pass the virus to people, which just happened to be within virtually feet and inches of a virology lab that was known to study these viruses.

What I think is dangerous is how so many people lost their common sense in analyzing the situation that was presented to us, and because of their political leanings went full force into yelling and screaming at everyone who thought differently how stupid they were. Not to mention, the power of Facebook/Twitter in that they wouldn't even allow people to discuss the possibility that this escaped from a lab - it's really, really scary that private companies get to dictate what is "real" or not, or what topics we should question or not.

When we talk about "people" I think we are referring to different subsets.

There is a subset within the affected professional communities who is legitimately questioning if they gave lab leak the proper examination. They consider themselves conscientious researchers, and are uncomfortable with the idea that they might have skipped some steps because they are committed to good research. The assumption was the intermediary would be obvious, and it hasn't worked out that way, so they are working through a legitimate process by "going back to the beginning." I expect that as they re-work through the process of what the SARS-CoV-2 genome is vs what viruses are known and available they will once again realize that the genetic disparities are too significant to be explained by human modification. Humans are not yet *that* good at manipulating that many nucleotides with success. Again, I refer to the implied hubris that comes with the idea that humans can do large-scale genetic modifications, in multiple areas of a genome and end up with a successful, replicating virus, because we've figured out how to tweak stuff. We hear 96% similarity and think "oh, close." The professionals do the analysis of recognizing that's still a difference of 1200 nucleotides, located all over the genome, not just the few highlighted nucleotides within the spike protein receiving all the attention, and come up with a different conclusion. Lab leak depends on proving that a proper backbone exists, and it is in this area where I expect the theory to be ultimately unable to explain. Things whittle down to which thing is more likely to find in nature, the previously discovered backbone close enough to make human manipulation feasible, or the zoonotic origin. Two different needles in a haystack.

It is not to this group that I was referring to by my statement.

There is a much larger group of people who are reacting to the recent volume of prominent articles, the people who are over-estimating the relevancy of their adjacent knowledge, and the continued political or personal agendas by the loudest proponents. Of course, many in this group wants to believe they are part of the conscientious group and not being manipulated or falling into a rabbit hole of incorrect assumptions and inadequate knowledge. And the manipulators certainly won't indicate that they doing any kind of piggy-backing on the conscientious concerns, when their intent is nefarious.

For the record, I don't find the proximity of the lab as suspicious as apparently a lot of people do. IMO, it feels like what happens with police investigations when you have a situation where a relationship between culprit and victim is the biggest factor in the crime. But the most likely relationship is one in which the subject has a sterling reputation that makes the crime unlikely. But there is a nearby criminal who has the appropriate history, but no relationship with the victim can be found. In the past, expediency and the touchiness of "ruining the reputations of good people" has led detectives to focus on the criminal despite their lack of connection. The "stranger" theory becomes elevated. DNA evidence, has resulted in refocusing to the people with relationships, and acknowledgement that even upstanding members of communities, good parents, and the like are capable of committing crimes too. The lab is the "nearby criminal" and the zoonotic option is the "relationship" that in almost every case has led to these situations.