Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[GoofGoof]

And everyone can go feel like miserable failures.

Not me. I’ve never felt better about this situation since it all started.

The vaccines are working and we are fast approaching 70% of adults vaccinated. Cases and hospitalizations and deaths are all way down. We are seeing real steps taken towards an actual, safe return to normal. For 15 months we’ve been talking about the hope that if we followed some basic mitigations and held out until we got an effective vaccine that we could eventually get out of this and return to normal. It’s all happening now. I couldn’t be more happy to see the true power of these vaccines and the hope they should bring to everyone.

What I believe we are seeing here now is the last dying gasps of the extremes on both sides who are a little upset that this pandemic isn’t going to end the way they wanted. The covid denying, anti-mask crowd are upset that we never just learned to live with the virus or dropped all restrictions on their time line. They are lashing out at fully vaccinated people wearing masks and railing on about dropping mitigations now vs a few weeks or a month from now because there’s nothing left to fight or resist. On the flip side the Covid restrictions crowd seems upset that we are getting out of this despite not everyone getting on board with their plan. It almost seems that some are hoping to see an uptick in cases or another wave to prove that they were right and punish the people who didn’t get vaccinated. I think that’s one of the reasons why vaccine passports come in to the discussion a lot.

We are approaching 70% of adults vaccinated. Throughout this pandemic the mask mandates and reasonable Covid restrictions were favored by the vast majority of the population. Most people followed the rules and did what they could. Many people went above and beyond to help others in general. The healthcare workers and first responders and other essential workers who showed up for work each day and put themselves and their families at risk. The millions of Americans who spent money supporting local businesses when they needed it the most and/or donated time, money or supplies to charity. Millions of people followed mitigation measures, not everyone was willing to do their part, but the vast majority have and the vast majority have been vaccinated or are getting vaccinated too.

 

[Epcotbob]

I don't think we should FORCE people to be vaccinated against covid, but I wish vaccine passports were required for pretty much everything (shopping, traveling, schools, amusement parks, etc) once the vaccines are available to children. Then a lot of the hesitant people would just get it done. People who are antivax will have to live their lives at home like my family has done for the past year. It's our turn to be out in public now. I know this won't happen, but it would be the most fair for people who are concerned about catching coronavirus.

If the actual threat level from Covid, based on the real and current data warrants it, sure, but apparently the CDC, other Gov officials etc. have decided No, it does not. If it did they would have pushed for and required vaccine passports.

 

[hopemax]

By all accounts the vaccines were developed in record time. Science has advanced rapidly on that front and computers weren’t around to help with the Spanish flu a hundred years ago (obviously).

There were also a number of factors in the case of Covid that’s helped:
1. Highly contagious but relatively low lethality.
2. Advances in computer tech enabling faster time to a vaccine.
3. Better medical care.

But for consideration SARS and MERS had much higher death rates:

How do SARS and MERS compare with COVID-19?

Three coronaviruses can cause severe respiratory illness in people. One causes COVID-19, and the other two cause SARS and MERS. Learn how they differ here.

www.medicalnewstoday.com

My layman’s reading of my link indicates to me that each burned itself out quicker as it were as in the case of MERS people died at a much higher rate than Covid.

One of the things I learned through this, is high lethality is not the worst case scenario, even if it's the one we see in movies. High lethality leads to earlier burnout, high lethality leads to the type of fear that people react to with seriousness. HIV scared people and tiny mask adoption is now standard. High transmissibility and medium lethality, that's the danger zone. Spreads like wildfire and commitment to stopping it is meh, until the trailing indicators come in, at which point we've dug a very big hole for ourselves.

In today's variant news Vietnam has identified a new variant which has elements of both B.1.1.7 and B.1.617 as responsible for their recent outbreak. Not only do they suspect that this one is also more transmissible, this one the infection interval, which had been pretty consistent of 4-5 days, this one may be only 2 days or faster. They identified 3 cycles in only 9 days. Vietnam has very low natural immunity due to how well they have controlled the pandemic so far, so they have a lot at stake. They are working on a locally produced vaccine, and have some Sputnik V, AstraZeneca and Pfizer on order and have rejected China's vaccines, so their vax rate isn't great.

So as we enjoy our growing mask-free opportunities, don't forget to include continuing expressions of gratitude that we live in a situation where people can pretend that this isn't the BFD it continues to be.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

Was this posted here that happened yesterday? I just went back 10 pages and didn’t see it, but not sure. If it’s here somewhere feel free to delete it Steve.

Redirect Notice

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Was this posted here that happened yesterday? I just went back 10 pages and didn’t see it, but not sure. If it’s here somewhere feel free to delete it Steve.

Redirect Notice

It should stay up so people can see it.

 

[Willmark]

I didn't say I was for or against...simply that there are things that people are forced to do whether they want to or not for their own safety and for the safety of the general public.

So should people be forced to be vaccinated?

 

[Jrb1979]

So should people be forced to be vaccinated?

No one should be forced to be vaccinated but I am still of the belief that places of large gatherings should require proof of vaccination til 70% of the population is vaccinated.

I'm happy that it's looking like proof of vaccination will be a requirement to enter Canada.

 

[GaBoy]

Not me. I’ve never felt better about this situation since it all started.

The vaccines are working and we are fast approaching 70% of adults vaccinated. Cases and hospitalizations and deaths are all way down. We are seeing real steps taken towards an actual, safe return to normal. For 15 months we’ve been talking about the hope that if we followed some basic mitigations and held out until we got an effective vaccine that we could eventually get out of this and return to normal. It’s all happening now. I couldn’t be more happy to see the true power of these vaccines and the hope they should bring to everyone.

What I believe we are seeing here now is the last dying gasps of the extremes on both sides who are a little upset that this pandemic isn’t going to end the way they wanted. The covid denying, anti-mask crowd are upset that we never just learned to live with the virus or dropped all restrictions on their time line. They are lashing out at fully vaccinated people wearing masks and railing on about dropping mitigations now vs a few weeks or a month from now because there’s nothing left to fight or resist. On the flip side the Covid restrictions crowd seems upset that we are getting out of this despite not everyone getting on board with their plan. It almost seems that some are hoping to see an uptick in cases or another wave to prove that they were right and punish the people who didn’t get vaccinated. I think that’s one of the reasons why vaccine passports come in to the discussion a lot.

We are approaching 70% of adults vaccinated. Throughout this pandemic the mask mandates and reasonable Covid restrictions were favored by the vast majority of the population. Most people followed the rules and did what they could. Many people went above and beyond to help others in general. The healthcare workers and first responders and other essential workers who showed up for work each day and put themselves and their families at risk. The millions of Americans who spent money supporting local businesses when they needed it the most and/or donated time, money or supplies to charity. Millions of people followed mitigation measures, not everyone was willing to do their part, but the vast majority have and the vast majority have been vaccinated or are getting vaccinated too.

Refreshing. Middle of the road and optimistic. Exactly what's missing in politics these days.

 

[Jrb1979]

Refreshing. Middle of the road and optimistic. Exactly what's missing in politics these days.

Opinion | The U.S. May Never Hit the Herd Immunity Threshold. That’s OK. (Published 2021)

Americans may not need to achieve that goal in order to escape the Covid-19 pandemic.

www.nytimes.com

This is why I am not so optimistic about herd immunity. Still far too many hesitant to get vaccinated.

 

[LittleBuford]

Some interesting links on the legality of mandatory vaccinations in the US:

Is Mandatory Vaccination Legal in Time of Epidemic?

Article explains the right granted to state public health agencies by the Supreme Court in Jacobson v Massachusetts to mandate vaccination in the presence of actual or threatened danger to the health of its residents from infectious disease.

journalofethics.ama-assn.org

Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health

Protecting Health, Saving Lives—Millions at a Time

www.jhsph.edu

 

[hopemax]

So should people be forced to be vaccinated?

Fine, I will be the one to say it. If a virus is deemed to be a sufficient risk to public health, and we have a vaccine that has been rigorously tested, then yes, we need to begin thinking about the idea that a vaccine will need to be compulsory. I believe that this period of human history where we act like infectious disease management is a personal choice will be an aberration. Humanity will experience another infectious disease that results in the catastrophic effects of a small pox or measles and humans will be reminded that proper disease management is a necessary function in order to establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, and promote the general welfare. Whether the vaccine for SARS-CoV-2 rises to that level of need, will take more time to evaluate the frequency and intensity in which future outbreaks occur.

 

[GaBoy]

Opinion | The U.S. May Never Hit the Herd Immunity Threshold. That’s OK. (Published 2021)

Americans may not need to achieve that goal in order to escape the Covid-19 pandemic.

www.nytimes.com

This is why I am not so optimistic about herd immunity. Still far too many hesitant to get vaccinated.

Yeah. I dont think its going to be what people think either. It will be a yearly struggle like the flu and all other corona viruses that have been with us forever. Just what I think the reality will be this time next year. https://www.healthline.com/health-n...ifficulty-of-achieving-covid-19-herd-immunity

 

[Dead2009]

New study claims Chinese scientists created COVID 19 in a lab

The 22-page paper on the origins of COVID-19, exclusively obtained by DailyMail.com and slated for publication in the coming days, is set to make waves among the scientific community.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Jrb1979]

New study claims Chinese scientists created COVID 19 in a lab

The 22-page paper on the origins of COVID-19, exclusively obtained by DailyMail.com and slated for publication in the coming days, is set to make waves among the scientific community.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Tabloid paper.

 

[TokyoMiki]

, we need to begin thinking about the idea that a vaccine will need to be compulsory.

To what level? Strapping down against one's will as if being injected with with an execution cocktail like in Tarre Haute?

Compulsory? How far?

 

[Jrb1979]

I honestly believe many want to think Covid was leaked from a lab and was man made. I think it's due to that if it was naturally made it would mean there is a possibility this will happen again.

 

[Jrb1979]

To what level? Strapping down against one's will as if being injected with with an execution cocktail like in Tarre Haute?

Compulsory? How far?

It will never go to that level. I'm guessing you are against vaccine passports for international travel.

 

[hopemax]

Tabloid paper.

It's not even the paper. The authors of this paper have well-known political and conspiratorial biases. Anyone can write a study, and there are enough publications that you can eventually find one amenable to your agenda to get published. Although, apparently they have been shopping this paper since last year, with many rewrites after being rejected by the leading academic journals. This study will elevate their names in certain circles, for which they will be financially rewarded and make a subset of people go absolutely bonkers while the rest of the scientific community continues the real research in a more difficult environment.

 

[LittleBuford]

Tabloid paper.

The report appears to be accurate, though.

Here's some background:

The fight for a controversial article

Birger Sørensen and Angus Dalgleish failed to get an article about the origins of the coronavirus published in a scientific journal. The authors suspect foul play and political considerations. Not everything gets published, is the answer from the journals. Minerva has obtained a draft of the...

www.minervanett.no

 

[LittleBuford]

The authors of this paper have well-known political and conspiratorial biases.

On what basis do you say this?