Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Disney Experience]

For everyone else to be aware...

What is included in the vaccines is NOT a full SARS-CoV-2 spike protein. Apparently, an actual SARS-CoV-2 spike protein, shapeshifts from a small stubby, into a long pointy thing that forces itself into cells. Geneticists figured out how to stabilize the protein in its pre-change state, before using it in the vaccine, based on previous research done with other viruses. The thing that makes the spike protein so destructive, is the thing the vaccine is designed to prevent from occurring. Bruce Banner vs the Hulk. The vaccine is the Bruce version, the virus has the Hulk version. And now conspiracy theorists are going to use the thing that makes the vaccine work as the reason why the vaccine is dangerous.

This is a story about the Moderna tweak.

https://cen.acs.org/pharmaceuticals/vaccines/tiny-tweak-behind-COVID-19/98/i38

The study itself includes discussion about how the vaccines are effective at preventing endothelial damage.

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.04.409144v1.full.pdf

That is an informative Moderna tweak article you linked. (https://cen.acs.org/pharmaceuticals/vaccines/tiny-tweak-behind-COVID-19/98/i38)
I liked it.

Now concerning the other study (https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.04.409144v1.full.pdf)
I agree it does not directly address the modified S protein in the vaccine:, other than saying the protection it may infer would decrease the potential of actual covid virus load and therefore actual covid virus damage. (i.e. getting vaccinated is good) Quote from study:

This conclusion suggests that vaccinationgenerated antibody and/or exogenous antibody against S protein not only protects the host from SARS-CoV-2 infectivity but also inhibits S protein-imposed endothelial injury and ultimately decrease cardiovascular complication-associated mortality in COVID-19 patients.

It seems it is still not peered reviewed and was made available in early December 2020. But I may just be seeing older pdfs of the paper online. Assuming the results of the study are correct, the study did not study the effects of any specific vaccine (MRNA or otherwise) modified S protein,

What the study looked at was a virus with the covid S (Spike) protein that is not modified and therefore can bind (and the spike (S protien) becomes a post translational version of the Spike protien).
So to quote the study:

Our data herein reveals that S protein alone can damage endothelium, manifested by impaired mitochondrial function and eNOS activity but increased glycolysis. The S proteinmediated endothelial impairment depends on ACE2 post-translational modifications.

I would think (and I am just a layman) that the vaccines spike which does not have the ability to transform into the post-translational state (i.e. bind) is not addressed by the study itself (Other than the advantage of being vaccinated will stop the real virus and the post translational damage of the real virus spike). It seems unlikely from the study results that a pre-transformed S protein will be the cause of the damage they found in the study, if (like in the MRNA vaccines) the protein is locked in the pre-transformed shape. (As was described in the other article you linked)

Now if they had injected the vaccine into the hamsters and got the results they got, it would be a different conclusion.

But out in the internet I think people see the first sentence which I quoted from the study and do not realize it applies only if the protein is in a post-translational form; and the MRNA vaccine generated spikes cannot transform to that form because they have been modified to be "stable" ie not transform.

 

[GoofGoof]

According to CNN, Pfizer may be approved for 12-15's next week.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/03/health/pfizer-covid-vaccine-teens-fda/index.html

Really good news. I was hoping to wake up this morning to that news, but a week or so later isn’t too bad This also puts another 20M Americans into the vaccination pool. I know some people don’t count kids, but they can both catch and spread Covid.

 

[GaBoy]

You don’t live in Alabama. Lowering expectations is a part of the deal

Same in Georgia. You know the saying... if you're going to be stupid you better be tough. Half of the crews I work with have had COVID this year. There are a lot of people that have had it I know personally. My sister had it at some point. Tested positive for antibodies a month ago. May be why we are at 35% but low cases. Regardless. Nothing will be changing here. I do know a few guys that said they aren't doing it then later confess their wives made them. Just tough talk.

 

[Chomama]

Same in Georgia. You know the saying... if you're going to be stupid you better be tough. Half of the crews I work with have had COVID this year. There are a lot of people that have had it I know personally. My sister had it at some point. Tested positive for antibodies a month ago. May be why we are at 35% but low cases. Regardless. Nothing will be changing here. I do know a few guys that said they aren't doing it then later confess their wives made them. Just tough talk.

Ha! I do have a friend who made her husband get it too!

 

[Heppenheimer]

That is an informative Moderna tweak article you linked. (https://cen.acs.org/pharmaceuticals/vaccines/tiny-tweak-behind-COVID-19/98/i38)
I liked it.

Now concerning the other study (https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.04.409144v1.full.pdf)
I agree it does not directly address the modified S protein in the vaccine:, other than saying the protection it may infer would decrease the potential of actual covid virus load and therefore actual covid virus damage. (i.e. getting vaccinated is good)

It seems it is still not peered reviewed and was made available in early December 2020. But I may just be seeing older pdfs of the paper online.
Study did not study the effects of any specific vaccine (MRNA or otherwise)
What the study looked at was a virus with the covid S (Spike) protein that is not modified and therefore can bind (and the spike (S protien) becomes a post translational version of the Spike protien).
So to quote the study:

I would think (and I am just a layman) that the vaccines spike which does not have the ability to transform into the post-translational state (i.e. bind) is not addressed by the study itself (Other than the advantage of being vaccinated will stop the real virus and the post translational damage of the real virus spike). It seems unlikely from the study results that a pre-transformed S protein will be the cause of the damage they found in the study, if (like in the MRNA vaccines) the protein is locked in the pre-transformed shape. (As was described in the other article you linked)

Now if they had inject the vaccine into the hamsters and got the results they got, it would be a different conclusion.

But out in the internet I think people see the first part I quoted from the study and do not realize it applies only if it is in a post-translational form which the MRNA vaccine generated spikes cannot transform to because they have been modified to be "stable" ie not transform.

And all this aside... after hundreds of millions of doses, we haven't seen an uptick in things like strokes, pulmonary embolism, kidney failure or myocardial infarctions that we would expect if the vaccine-derived spike protein could cause endothelial damage.

At this point, if a theoretical risk hasn't manifested itself yet, we can confidently conclude the risk isn't real.

 

[Touchdown]

you know what that map lines up 1:1 with...no joke?

No it doesn’t. Not 1:1, in Wisconsin the darkest purple counties are Dane (Madison) which is liberal stronghold and the “WOW” counties around Milwaukee (Ozaukee, Waupaca, Washington) which are heavy Republican stronghold. If anything it shows, at least in Wisconsin that shot suburban voters (of any persuasion) are most likely to get vaccinated. However, that map is not corrolating with actual real world data, while Dane is the highest vaccinated county in the state at 60%, the next two are Door (thumb of Wisconsin) and Bayfield (Superior) two very rural counties that heavily rely on tourism. Clearly people in those counties have gotten the message how best to save their livelihood.

 

[hopemax]

That is an informative Moderna tweak article you linked. (https://cen.acs.org/pharmaceuticals/vaccines/tiny-tweak-behind-COVID-19/98/i38)
I liked it.

Now concerning the other study (https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.04.409144v1.full.pdf)
I agree it does not directly address the modified S protein in the vaccine:, other than saying the protection it may infer would decrease the potential of actual covid virus load and therefore actual covid virus damage. (i.e. getting vaccinated is good) Quote from study:


It seems it is still not peered reviewed and was made available in early December 2020. But I may just be seeing older pdfs of the paper online.
Study did not study the effects of any specific vaccine (MRNA or otherwise)
What the study looked at was a virus with the covid S (Spike) protein that is not modified and therefore can bind (and the spike (S protien) becomes a post translational version of the Spike protien).
So to quote the study:

I would think (and I am just a layman) that the vaccines spike which does not have the ability to transform into the post-translational state (i.e. bind) is not addressed by the study itself (Other than the advantage of being vaccinated will stop the real virus and the post translational damage of the real virus spike). It seems unlikely from the study results that a pre-transformed S protein will be the cause of the damage they found in the study, if (like in the MRNA vaccines) the protein is locked in the pre-transformed shape. (As was described in the other article you linked)

Now if they had inject the vaccine into the hamsters and got the results they got, it would be a different conclusion.

But out in the internet I think people see the first part I quoted from the study and do not realize it applies only if it is in a post-translational form which the MRNA vaccine generated spikes cannot transform to because they have been modified to be "stable" ie not transform.

I admit to not reading the study directly, because I am not a medical professional. Instead, I relied on the most common sentence used on Twitter to refute the "vaccine is going to give everyone long-COVID" narrative that is building, and assumed there was more discussion about the specific vaccine.

"conclusion suggests that vaccination generated antibody and/or exogenous antibody against S protein not only protects the host from infectivity but also inhibits endothelial injury and decrease CV complication-associated mortality"

Anyway, the main point was A. Beware of the new talking point and B. More info about what is behind the vaccine and not just the implication that scientists were careless about using SARS-CoV-2 spike protein.

 

[danlb_2000]

I never knew that Florida counties had mayors.

So the question is, does Florida law give counties and town any rights that cannot be overridden by the state?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

No it doesn’t. Not 1:1, in Wisconsin the darkest purple counties are Dane (Madison) which is liberal stronghold and the “WOW” counties around Milwaukee (Ozaukee, Waupaca, Washington) which are heavy Republican stronghold. If anything it shows, at least in Wisconsin that shot suburban voters (of any persuasion) are most likely to get vaccinated. However, that map is not corrolating with actual real world data, while Dane is the highest vaccinated county in the state at 60%, the next two are Door (thumb of Wisconsin) and Bayfield (Superior) two very rural counties that heavily rely on tourism. Clearly people in those counties have gotten the message how best to save their livelihood.

Ok...you want to nitpick every spot?

look a little closer. Want a pretty “purple” example? Look at Pennsylvania.

believe what you want...there’s a pattern there.
And to be clear...I sure as hell hope there’s no pattern Moving forward.

that kinda day, huh? I’ll give you this: the Wisconsin gift for literalism is stalwart

 

[Horizons '83]

My kids are dancing around the house hearing this. They want it before summer camp!

Wow good for your kids, when I was little I would not be jumping around for any needles near my arm haha

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You don’t live in Alabama. Lowering expectations is a part of the deal

I guess the optimist in me wants that not to be the case.

cash payments can work too...

 

[Tony the Tigger]

He has no control over private businesses. All this does is create a hostile environment and a ton of confusion. Any business that wants to have restrictions will face more opposition now as people will hear this and decide they no longer need to follow any rules. It’s a political stunt and it’s pretty pathetic.

Bingo.

There are a variety of mechanisms by which he can control private businesses if desired.

Good luck with that. He doesn’t control my business unless he buys me out.

 

[Chomama]

...so New York, Connecticut or Massachusetts?

Ha - still Alabama

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Ha - still Alabama

that’s amazing!!! Good thing I didn’t bet you on that.

i hope it’s space camp?

 

[JAKECOTCenter]

Good to hear that a lot more will be cleared to get vaccinated. That will certainly DRASTICALLY cut covid cases and transmission

 

[DisneyFan32]

Good to hear that a lot more will be cleared to get vaccinated. That will certainly DRASTICALLY cut covid cases and transmission

Meanwhile...Brazil and India will be tough to get back to normal for long between next year or 2023 because there was a massive spikes.Because many people will be tough to get vaccinated!

 

[Tony the Tigger]

I read they are paying employees to get vaccinated . Would love to see more companies do this

It’s stunning that that’s necessary.

Save your life? Meh. $100? Woo hoo!

As long as both sides continue to attack the other, how do we ever reach herd immunity?

yeah, don’t attack drunk drivers, either, right? They’re not irresponsible, they just don’t want their freedom restricted.

I don't think it's right for Disney to keep putting CMs in the position of enforcing it when they will bear the brunt from people who don't like it. There are other ways of encouraging compliance like verbal narration and visual cues.

I had to have a chat with my employees today. I told them nothing has changed; the mask mandate is our choice.

I told them if anyone comes in with their middle finger up saying they don’t have to, do not be confrontational. Politely ask them to put a mask on. If they won’t, politely explain how we can help them over the phone or online and do curbside pick up.

And I told them if anyone won’t put on a mask and won’t exit, to call the police.



I also spoke with the owners of the same kind of business in three counties. We’re all on the same page, so troublemakers can’t go anywhere else but Amazon.

One of the businesses already had to throw someone out today.

Finally, I told them: just as has been the case for the entire last year, 99.9% of our customers are wonderful people. We know most of them by name. The chances of having a confrontation are slim - but I have their backs not only in this circumstance but more broadly in limiting their risk (and that of our customers.)

 

[ImperfectPixie]

And the "rise in case rates" argument people make (if it's even true) is easily explained by realizing that society in general is more aware of autism and the stigma of having an autistic kid isn't what it was 30, 40, or 50 years ago. More and more parents are less worried about feeling unwarranted shame for having an autistic child and are more concerned with doing what's best for their child and taking them to see doctors who can diagnose their issues. Assuming - without evidence - that an increase in cases is due to vaccines is reckless an ill-informed, but some people seem to get off on thinking that they figured out some dirty secret that the rest of us are too dumb to see.

Then there's the "my child suddenly turned autistic after getting vaccinated"...no...the child was always autistic. Very often, autistic behaviors become easier to spot as children get older.

 

[correcaminos]

His license should be revoked and he needs to be barred from practicing medicine.

Sadly she's well known and loved by many. Crazy to me

I am not missing that reality, just that "doctors" who are anti-vax are not Drs.

Wish that were true. We have so many unvaccinated due to stupid doctors with agendas ugh.
The doctor that started this too apparently not even looking for autism at first.

Oddly.... I simultaneously feel like much of the US may be re-opening too fast and aggressively...
While feeling like WDW may be moving a little too slowly. (I'd be dine with WDW removing temp checks, lifting outdoor mask requirements, returning entertainment, reducing social distancing to 3 feet and increasing restaurant capacity... I'd prefer WDW kept indoor masks for now, and avoided character meets, buffets, etc).

I understand all of this. Kind of what I feel.

 

[Chomama]

that’s amazing!!! Good thing I didn’t bet you on that.

i hope it’s space camp?

Huntsville space camp is great for sure. But nope. Just good old fashioned camp a la parent trap