Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

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Chip Chipperson

Well-Known Member
Didn’t autism exist pre-20th century? It did according to my extensive research (i.e. Google and a prayer).

And the "rise in case rates" argument people make (if it's even true) is easily explained by realizing that society in general is more aware of autism and the stigma of having an autistic kid isn't what it was 30, 40, or 50 years ago. More and more parents are less worried about feeling unwarranted shame for having an autistic child and are more concerned with doing what's best for their child and taking them to see doctors who can diagnose their issues. Assuming - without evidence - that an increase in cases is due to vaccines is reckless an ill-informed, but some people seem to get off on thinking that they figured out some dirty secret that the rest of us are too dumb to see.
 

Bill in Atlanta

Well-Known Member
I think this is the number we should all be focusing on, not the number of cases because it’s always going to be around and be possible to get. There are better therapeutics now along with much lower numbers of the elderly who have the highest risk of death. Yes numbers are still high in the younger crowd but they also fight it off better in most cases. Of course there are exceptions but again there is always going to be a slight risk in this virus and lots of others things we do in life which brings me to what I keep saying....something is going to have to give at some point but I’m afraid the news media and political parties will stay more focused about their corners than reality.
Of course a "ghost host" would want to focus on death figures 🤣🤣🤣;)
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
This entire article is a "both sides are equal" trash equivalency article. From CNN or not, it's just poor reporting.

From the article (I can't easily get the quote to change to CNN, sorry):

This is a trick question with a crap answer. They really do need to work on how to answer these. I'll completely agree that "a matter of habit" is a poor answer. But, the question also presumes a "conflict with new and relaxed administration guidelines". Sure, standing at a podium, he's clearly outside in an uncrowded location. There didn't appear to be anyone near him. But, 10 steps earlier, was that still true? Was he in a crowd then? Was he inside? Surrounded by support staff? Should he have whipped the mask off the second he crossed whatever threshold made the change into uncrowded outdoors? Or, did he wait until the timing was easier? Perhaps even for dramatic effect that he was now in a area where it could be removed. Tell us what was going on around that time, don't just tell us "at this second as if he arrived by magic alone in a circle outside he was wearing a mask when not needed, SHAME".


This part isn't even reporting about the guideline and following them or not. It's repeating an assertion that there's a controversy and then repeating that the same group is playing up the controversy. A thing that only exists because they say it does. Also poor reporting, it's practically just a press release.


This one is frequently common in political reporters covering other topics. They're political reporters, everything must be framed in that context. Give us some reporting on the underlying topics. Reporters should go find the studies that try and determine which actions provide which benefits and their value vs the trade offs. They skip that and just tell us one side says A and the other 1. That doesn't help anybody and is poor reporting. Might as well be a gossip column. Reporting on the value of the different guidelines would actually be useful commentary, not just what someone says.


I've definitely seen some opinions about the guidelines changing slowly, both when they started and now as they pull back. But, most of those opinions are about very specific distinct activities. The guidelines in general try to deal with all the edge cases, all the transition zones between those distinct activates. At this point, after a year, I would expect the guidelines to be to slow in general in an effort to include all those transition zones. If they're going to report on medical experts giving opinions, ask them how we tell when we're switching zones? When someone is walking from the parking lot through the ticket gate, down the concourse, to their seat in loanDepot park, where are the transition points between "outdoor uncrowded" and not? What about if they use the bathroom? What about if the roof is closed? Get the science reporter out there digging into the definition of the transition zone. The political reporting of we found two options to contrast is just junk in comparison.


Another example of a political reporter playing both sides because every political story is a two sided fight or it's not worth reading. Go get the science guy, have them get us some information on why they have that recommendation. Is there a reason, is a medical one, is it sociology one, is just a power trip to feel woke? The CDC messaging is an issue here too, they're not saying why very well. It's all wishy washy on you might this or might that and we're not sure. They need to explain not just the might, but the solid reasons that you use mitigations when spread is high even if you're vaccinated. This is also playing into the same trick as above, using "while walking to a microphone at an outside announcement". Where did he come from right before that?


Is he really? Or, is that just a talking point being shared as part of the story?


Some more he said, she said. How about some reporting on how identifying "someone who has been fully vaccinated" would work in real life? The pro and con of how someone goes to the grocery story and know which someone is? If it's even possible to do in that scenario and what it would mean. How it would impact people day to day? Otherwise it's just hand waiving for a magical scenario that cannot exist so they can do a both sides. It's like a physics class that talks about "in a frictionless world, how would A be different from B", since the problem maker knows damn well that in a world with friction the problem completely falls apart.


Nobody should pressure or stigmatize group that wants to pee in the pool. Look they've been told not to and they've been told (by my friends) there's plenty of chlorine it doesn't matter. What should they believe? Why do we still just report "what someone said" as if it can stand on it's own? How lazy has the reporting become?


This is at least correct.

Once you read every news article with this type of perspective, the political reporting from even some of the most balanced sources can make you scream. 😡
No one would accuse CNN, perhaps the most pro Biden network out there, of being “balanced”. Even this allegedly balanced article manages to vilify Republicans.

The point of posting the article is to show that even Biden’s staunchest allies recognize that he has a problem. (And he is President of all Americans, so it is his problem and he needs to figure out how to solve it.)

If Biden wants to get the vaccination rate up, he needs to start crafting a message with a wider appeal.

Wearing a mask when science says he doesn’t need to only appeals to his base. And, as the article points out, it’s his base that is getting vaccinated anyway.

Blame the other side all you want. It’s not going to get the vaccination rate up.

Biden needs to genuinely reach across the aisle. Vilifying Republicans might make Democrats feel good, but it won’t solve the problem.

We all want Biden to solve this because we all want WDW back to normal! :)
 

sullyinMT

Well-Known Member
I was on the fence about mask outdoors. I really don't think they are necessary when walking around outdoors in a "normal" crowd. In other words, strolling through Disney Springs, generally walking around the parks. But I would still like to see them when you're potentially brushing up close to other people. So in ride queues (especially if social distancing is reduced to 3 feet), in outdoor theaters if you are filling most of the seats.

I kind of see it as: Socially distance + ventilation OR masks. So I agree with you though, it's too difficult to distinguish for guests when you do need masks and when you don't.
But I do feel that by June, we will likely be in a position where I'm comfortable without masks outdoors, even in semi-congested places.
I'd like to see indoor masks stick around until we have under 1,000 cases per day nationally, but that's unlikely to happen.
I don’t disagree in theory with any of that. I also just don’t trust the general US populous to deal with mask on/mask off delineations as they’d be necessary in the parks. Look at the memes regarding airport terminal social distancing vs being on a plane. People can’t compartmentalize, in general. So keep the park mask rule in place until it can be lifted in general. Though I’ve said recently I could see them removing “while stationary” from the eating and drinking in the interim.

Where I do see a need for change is at Disney Springs and resort hotel grounds outdoors. It would be easy to keep door attendants in place to remind guests to replace masks entering shops or indoor common areas.
 

Jwink

Well-Known Member
With the DeSantis executive order... what does that mean for stores and businesses that want to continue with masks etc?

He also said he’s taking Florida out of a state of emergency...
 

Jwink

Well-Known Member
I am as far from a DeSantis supporter as they come, and have been a lifelong registered Democrat and am a DNC donor, but I don't disagree with him. The vaccines are available now to anyone that wants one. If you aren't yet vaccinated, you can be. If you choose not to, it's your choice. And if you are, it's time to get back to normal.

I support mitigation/distancing policies for another month or two at places like theme parks, stadiums, etc. But if we're still doing this come July/August/September, it's not fair to those of us that have done our part to help ourselves and others by getting vaccinated.
I see your point but he’s not doing this for those of us who are vaccinated. He’s doing this to rally support and appease his fan base.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
With the DeSantis executive order... what does that mean for stores and businesses that want to continue with masks etc?

He also said he’s taking Florida out of a state of emergency...
He has no control over private businesses. All this does is create a hostile environment and a ton of confusion. Any business that wants to have restrictions will face more opposition now as people will hear this and decide they no longer need to follow any rules. It’s a political stunt and it’s pretty pathetic.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
He has no control over private businesses. All this does is create a hostile environment and a ton of confusion. Any business that wants to have restrictions will face more opposition now as people will hear this and decide they no longer need to follow any rules. It’s a political stunt and it’s pretty pathetic.
There are a variety of mechanisms by which he can control private businesses if desired.
 

Jwink

Well-Known Member
He has no control over private businesses. All this does is create a hostile environment and a ton of confusion. Any business that wants to have restrictions will face more opposition now as people will hear this and decide they no longer need to follow any rules. It’s a political stunt and it’s pretty pathetic.
That makes sense. It also makes me wonder- without being declared a state of emergency- do we miss out on federal funding for covid related things?
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
I don’t disagree in theory with any of that. I also just don’t trust the general US populous to deal with mask on/mask off delineations as they’d be necessary in the parks. Look at the memes regarding airport terminal social distancing vs being on a plane. People can’t compartmentalize, in general. So keep the park mask rule in place until it can be lifted in general. Though I’ve said recently I could see them removing “while stationary” from the eating and drinking in the interim.

Where I do see a need for change is at Disney Springs and resort hotel grounds outdoors. It would be easy to keep door attendants in place to remind guests to replace masks entering shops or indoor common areas.
Although I like the idea of not wearing masks outside in limited settings at WDW (I’m now officially 2 weeks past my second dose!), this seems really difficult for Disney to enforce.

CMs would have to be stationed at all entrances and then we’d get everyone bunching up as some fumble around for their masks.

I think WDW is stuck with it’s current mask policy until thresholds are met.

Mayor Demings set such low thresholds, and indicated these were discussed with theme park operators. It’s really disappointing to see these thresholds set so low, but it appears Demings (and WDW) have given up getting past 70% first vaccinations and 5% positivity rate.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Although I like the idea of not wearing masks outside in limited settings at WDW (I’m now officially 2 weeks past my second dose!), this seems really difficult for Disney to enforce.

CMs would have to be stationed at all entrances and then we’d get everyone bunching up as some fumble around for their masks.

I think WDW is stuck with it’s current mask policy until thresholds are met.

Mayor Demings set such low thresholds, and indicated these were discussed with theme park operators. It’s really disappointing to see these thresholds set so low, but it appears Demings (and WDW) have given up getting past 70% first vaccinations and 5% positivity rate.
I think it could be done. You would need a boat load of signs and also need CMs to enforce at entrances but most rides have someone there anyway for crowd control. Smaller shops and restaurants would be more difficult. I imagine this isn’t just a Disney issue. As more and more places start going to no masks outside every strip mall and public attraction will face the same issues.
 

Disney Experience

Well-Known Member
I have a question-

could we... in theory... with all of the political crap... anti vaxx... anti mask... become the next India?
No.

(Of course it does depend on what you mean in "the new India")

But if you are worried we will be in the same situation as they are in regards to covid. The answer is no.

We have a very, very large percentage of the population vaccinated with MRNA Covid vaccines (and some J&J vaccines too).
India has only a few percentages of their population vaccinated, and very few with the most effective MRNA vaccines.

We have not hit herd immunity yet. But our hospital infrastructure, our vaccinated rate to date, smaller population size, and other factors mean we will not be a new India.
 

hopemax

Well-Known Member
I have a question-

could we... in theory... with all of the political crap... anti vaxx... anti mask... become the next India?
No. Not without some horror-movie like level of mutation happening. We are too vaccinated for that.

But, if a highly transmissible variant were to catch a ride on a human returning to their home town in an under-vaccinated area, for a holiday celebration or wedding where most of the town is attendance, and they all go to church service, and they all go to a poorly ventilated reception hall, and they all go back to church the next morning, and continue to gather at the main local employer, and bar...then the virus would virus its way through the unvaccinated community like every other time it blew through. But weeks later there would be no more fresh bodies and it would die out. Hopefully, all the vulnerable would be vaccinated and all that would be left would be the stories of how poorly everyone felt during, and some that will continue to feel poorly after, and not a bunch of funerals.

So it would be kind of like a circus passing from town to town, gaining everyone's attention for a period, and hopefully they aren't too far from the big city's medical resources for the acute period. Whatever we have next will be uneven and clustered, and plenty of finger-pointing for everyone to engage in.
 
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