Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[ImperfectPixie]

Spread IS happening with masks. It's relatively low, but it is happening.

We're never going to get to zero.

I don't expect to get to zero.

My point is that we know that masks help prevent spread when everyone wears them. Kids in school without masks would be disastrous.

 

[GoofGoof]

Correct. The folks I know, and this is obviously anecdotal, since I am not a pollster or anything....

They aren't anti-vax. In fact, they are pro vax. Kids all vaxxed up, they are all vaxxed up. No problems at all. What I always hear is...

"I'm not afraid of getting Covid, and nothing changes for me after the vaccine, so why bother?" Or some variant of that. These people aren't going viral fighting in grocery stores about masks. They are regular people who follow all the "rules". They just aren't interested in an experimental medicine that changes nothing for them. IMO, a very reasonable take.

That’s the problem. These people are not looking at all of the facts. They are looking at the risks from Covid for themselves and saying I’m young and healthy so unlikely to have a bad negative outcome. Then they look at the vaccine and should see there is even a smaller actual known risk to getting the vaccine, but then they are assigning a value to a possible future risk of the vaccine. Crazy stuff like “how do we know that 10 years from now the vaccine won’t cause something bad”. There is 100% zero science behind this. The vaccine is out of your body in days not years and what’s left are anti-bodies and T cells. The same anti-bodies and T cells produced with natural infection. So in 10 years if those cells create an issue (not really likely) then anyone naturally infected would have the exact same risk as someone vaccinated. So no, not a reasonable take when the risk of the vaccine is in reality much lower than the risk of a natural infection even though both are low.

 

[jinx8402]

There is no stinking way I'd send my kid to school without a mask.

In fact, continue to have them wear them in the future (during the cold/flu season), because for the first time in 9 years neither one has been sick or brought back any common colds at all.

 

[havoc315]

The people opposed to this plan are almost all already vaccinated.

Feels to me that the opponents of his plan are largely unvaccinated and still arguing he hasn’t given them enough incentive to get vaccinated

If you take the time to listen to the other side and really listen to why they say they won’t get the vaccine right now a number of people are saying they see no reward for doing so. I think that’s crazy,

It’s not just crazy, it’s disingenuous. They are the same people who already disregard most recommended mitigation.
They are looking for any excuse. And they are the same people who have always opposed mask mandates.

what they are doing now is crossing their fingers behind their back as they pledge, “if only the mask mandates was lifted, I would get a vaccine.”

but I’m already vaccinated and not part of the group we need to convince. Having a firm vaccination target takes that excuse off the table. Will people shift to another excuse? Maybe, but what’s the harm in trying it and actually believing these people are being sincere?

There are people who are vaccine hesitant with sincere concern about the safety and side effects. Hopefully, you can reach those people with education.

But those arguing, “I’m not getting the vaccine unless I can immediately burn my mask. And nobody is allowed to check my vaccine status.. they have to just take my word for it” — that’s simply not a sincere argument.

If no additional people get vaccinated we never hit the target so no harm no foul.

 

[lazyboy97o]

What's the endgame for the rest of us if this is your position?

No different than what has been said, stop engaging in mitigation when spread is low and manageable, something that will vary by location. Vaccinated people continuing to engaging in public mitigation is because civil society and public health requires common action and unless you want the police standing on the corner checking your vaccine papers continue to enjoy public privacy and anonymity.

 

[havoc315]

Yes. The “kinda” was in reference to the individual. I’m fully supportive of his move, btw. Because it does need to be a large number of people for vaccines to have an impact.

The only way you could do it on an individual basis is with strictly enforced vaccine passports. But the same group making the “incentive” argument are against vaccine passports.

 

[GoofGoof]

Spread IS happening with masks. It's relatively low, but it is happening.

We're never going to get to zero.

This makes no sense. So because there is low spread anyway with masks in school we should just drop the masks for kids.

 

[FormerMember]

I don't think the "I'm not afraid of getting COVID" is reasonable at all. It's been proven over and over that being young and healthy is no guarantee of a good outcome, and we still don't know the long-term health effects yet.

No guarantees in life. We all must do our own risk assessment multiple times a day.

There are plenty of people who would think it unreasonable for a healthy young person to be afraid of Covid.

I personally think it's perfectly reasonable for someone like me. Young, healthy, fit, to not be afraid of Covid. The odds of me having a bad outcome are astronomically low. So I can't concern myself with them. If I did, I would have to start concerning myself with a host of other "potential" killers out there, and for me, that's no way to live.

Now, before you ask, I am vaccinated. I got vaccinated because the risk of a bad outcome from the vaccine is ALSO astronomically low, and I can't concern myself with that either.

 

[correcaminos]

Seriously, a lot of states have been saying it’s ok to be outside without masks for a while, even without a vaccine.

As already reported by WDWMagic, democratically run Orange County has announced specific targets to return to normal.

The CDC guidance is nothing more than a big yawn to most Americans.

You can throw a fit all you want about what a lot of government agencies have done. Go ahead and scream that Orange County is being irresponsible.

It still doesn’t address the reality of what already has been happening for many months.

President Biden virtue signaling by wearing a mask when he doesn’t need to only appeals to those who already back him.

There’s a good 20-30% of the population that’s only vaccine hesitant, not anti vaccine. Let’s start taking steps to win them over.

I thought there was a mandate to wear masks on federal grounds. So not virtual signaling to me but yes to the rest.

I think we need to meet people where they are. We have politicians and figure heads who could do a lot more than they've done. Each state would be wise to adopt ideas like Orlando area and Michigan too. Make it relevant to their state mandates and drop for each percentage done. Offer incentives to vaccinate. I'm honestly back to discouraged again after seeing some family on FB being those crazies who don't believe this is a concern or that vaccines are not needed.

 

[SorcererMC]

The only way you could do it on an individual basis is with strictly enforced vaccine passports. But the same group making the “incentive” argument are against vaccine passports.

My hunch is that there will be some vaccine passport implementation, where the unvaccinated or someone without a vaccine passport won't be denied activities, but that the availability will be capped at a some percentage.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

This makes no sense. So because there is low spread anyway with masks in school we should just drop the masks for kids.

Yes, that's the entire point of all of this. When spread is low, back to normal.

 

[FormerMember]

So no, not a reasonable take when the risk of the vaccine is in reality much lower than the risk of a natural infection even though both are low.

Your flaw is assuming it's one or the other. Get Covid or get vaccinated. That's not the math these people are doing. It's far simpler. I am not going to bother getting the vaccine for something I don't care about, when it changes nothing in MY life.

Now, you don't like that line of thinking. That's fine. It's not an unreasonable stance to have though, IMO.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

...unless you want the police standing on the corner checking your vaccine papers continue to enjoy public privacy and anonymity.

I do want that. Not out and about but at chokepoints where you can gatekeep flow, absolutely. Airports, resort hotels, theme parks, restaurants. Hell yes.

 

[jinx8402]

No guarantees in life. We all must do our own risk assessment multiple times a day.

There are plenty of people who would think it unreasonable for a healthy young person to be afraid of Covid.

I personally think it's perfectly reasonable for someone like me. Young, healthy, fit, to not be afraid of Covid. The odds of me having a bad outcome are astronomically low. So I can't concern myself with them. If I did, I would have to start concerning myself with a host of other "potential" killers out there, and for me, that's no way to live.

Now, before you ask, I am vaccinated. I got vaccinated because the risk of a bad outcome from the vaccine is ALSO astronomically low, and I can't concern myself with that either.

First, thank you for getting vaccinated even if you believe your personal risk is low. The problem with saying it is reasonable to say "my risk is low, so I don't need the vaccine" is because it is not just about "you*" the individual. It is just as much about others around you. Especially those who can't receive or do not not produce the antibodies after receiving the vaccine.

*you in the general sense, not you specifically.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

In fact, continue to have them wear them in the future (during the cold/flu season), because for the first time in 9 years neither one has been sick or brought back any common colds at all.

We had one single cold come home last winter. My husband brought it home from work (he installs floors, so he's in people's apartments, homes, and businesses all day).

I thought there was a mandate to wear masks on federal grounds. So not virtual signaling to me but yes to the rest.

I think we need to meet people where they are. We have politicians and figure heads who could do a lot more than they've done. Each state would be wise to adopt ideas like Orlando area and Michigan too. Make it relevant to their state mandates and drop for each percentage done. Offer incentives to vaccinate. I'm honestly back to discouraged again after seeing some family on FB being those crazies who don't believe this is a concern or that vaccines are not needed.

To your bolded...there are a lot of politicians who have contributed in huge ways to the anti-mask/anti-vaccine/don't-tell-me-what to do nonsense, and unfortunately, I don't think they'll ever do anything to help because then they'd have to admit they were wrong.

 

[GoofGoof]

Feels to me that the opponents of his plan are largely unvaccinated and still arguing he hasn’t given them enough incentive to get vaccinated




It’s not just crazy, it’s disingenuous. They are the same people who already disregard most recommended mitigation.
They are looking for any excuse. And they are the same people who have always opposed mask mandates.

what they are doing now is crossing their fingers behind their back as they pledge, “if only the mask mandates was lifted, I would get a vaccine.”



There are people who are vaccine hesitant with sincere concern about the safety and side effects. Hopefully, you can reach those people with education.

But those arguing, “I’m not getting the vaccine unless I can immediately burn my mask. And nobody is allowed to check my vaccine status.. they have to just take my word for it” — that’s simply not a sincere argument.

I haven’t seen many people saying that. Most of the people who were critical of his move have said they don‘t think we should remove restrictions based on vaccine rate at all or that they want some level of vaccination which is much higher. You are making my point though. How you and I feel about those people is irrelevant. We don’t need you to get vaccinated, we need them to. If a firm target encourages people to come in and get the shot then it‘s a win. In this case I feel like we need to listen to what the hesitant people are saying. Education is great and needed, but if someone feels the vaccine isn’t safe it’s going to be really hard to convince them otherwise. If someone is just indifferent to getting vaccinated because they don’t see enough upside for them personally I feel like that’s an opportunity to flip someone by offering that incentive.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I do want that. Not out and about but at chokepoints where you can gatekeep flow, absolutely. Airports, resort hotels, theme parks, restaurants. Hell yes.

To expand on this...

Current state, anti-vaxxers are making life mildly suck for everyone. I'd rather have life REALLY suck for the anti-vaxxers and life get back to normal for everyone else.

 

[FormerMember]

Yes, that's the entire point of all of this. When spread is low, back to normal.

Our kids are going to be the last ones free of this. It's sad.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Your flaw is assuming it's one or the other. Get Covid or get vaccinated. That's not the math these people are doing. It's far simpler. I am not going to bother getting the vaccine for something I don't care about, when it changes nothing in MY life.

Now, you don't like that line of thinking. That's fine. It's not an unreasonable stance to have though, IMO.

The risk of catching COVID and having an adverse health reaction is higher than any risk from the vaccine.

I'm acknowledging there is risk in getting vaccinated.

But people not getting vaccinated aren't acknowledging the risk that comes from COVID, even if they're young and healthy. The risk to the young and healthy from COVID is **higher** than from the vaccine. Both are low risks, but one is definitely more risky than the other.

Doing nothing is riskier than getting vaccinated.

 

[GoofGoof]

Your flaw is assuming it's one or the other. Get Covid or get vaccinated. That's not the math these people are doing. It's far simpler. I am not going to bother getting the vaccine for something I don't care about, when it changes nothing in MY life.

Now, you don't like that line of thinking. That's fine. It's not an unreasonable stance to have though, IMO.

So these people are OK with wearing masks and living with capacity limits and limited group gatherings for a while longer? If they get the vaccine then we all get to return to normal. If we don’t get enough people vaccinated that never happens.