Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[GoofGoof]

Those are really good numbers. Did the source say whether any of those cases had been prior to reaching the two-week mark of full protection?

About your last paragraph...unfortunately, I think you're right. I was thinking about what kind of things they could do marketing-wise to help spur things along on the vaccination front, but they're already doing so much - I must have gotten at least 2 dozen e-mails in the last two weeks from hospitals and doctors we've used over the years. I'm not sure what else they can do other than inundate television and radio with ads.

I still think that’s why we need a firm vaccination target nationally. We can say once enough people get vaccinated the restrictions go away and the resistors say what they have been saying since this started that we can‘t wait for that and that we need to learn to live with the virus. They blame the government and corporations for restrictions. If we had a target, say 70% of eligible people vaccinated, then we can flip the narrative on these people. The only thing delaying the removal of restrictions would be their resistance to a perfectly safe vaccine. Then whenever they complain you just shut them down with “get the vaccine or don’t complain”.

Ironically a lot of these people have spent a year belittling people for being afraid of a virus and now they are afraid of a needle.

 

[DisneyCane]

Those are really good numbers. Did the source say whether any of those cases had been prior to reaching the two-week mark of full protection?

About your last paragraph...unfortunately, I think you're right. I was thinking about what kind of things they could do marketing-wise to help spur things along on the vaccination front, but they're already doing so much - I must have gotten at least 2 dozen e-mails in the last two weeks from hospitals and doctors we've used over the years. I'm not sure what else they can do other than inundate television and radio with ads.

The numbers are from the CDC and they specify "fully vaccinated" so I assume (although we know what that does) that they are using their definition of "fully vaccinated" meaning at least two weeks after the final dose.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Seriously, a lot of states have been saying it’s ok to be outside without masks for a while, even without a vaccine.

As already reported by WDWMagic, democratically run Orange County has announced specific targets to return to normal.

The CDC guidance is nothing more than a big yawn to most Americans.

You can throw a fit all you want about what a lot of government agencies have done. Go ahead and scream that Orange County is being irresponsible.

It still doesn’t address the reality of what already has been happening for many months.

President Biden virtue signaling by wearing a mask when he doesn’t need to only appeals to those who already back him.

There’s a good 20-30% of the population that’s only vaccine hesitant, not anti vaccine. Let’s start taking steps to win them over.

I’m not sure outside was ever that dangerous - note the widespread flatting of the curve during the outdoor season last year...

...IF...you can trust the public not to be morons.
And we certainly have proved that’s not to be the case.

people were still ontop of each other in warm climates. How hard is it to simply back the hell off? Because the brain can’t retain that?

like it or not...much of policy is 100% necessary idiot proofing. Had this happened 20 years ago...it would have gone much better.

 

[GoofGoof]

Seriously, a lot of states have been saying it’s ok to be outside without masks for a while, even without a vaccine.

As already reported by WDWMagic, democratically run Orange County has announced specific targets to return to normal.

The CDC guidance is nothing more than a big yawn to most Americans.

You can throw a fit all you want about what a lot of government agencies have done. Go ahead and scream that Orange County is being irresponsible.

It still doesn’t address the reality of what already has been happening for many months.

President Biden virtue signaling by wearing a mask when he doesn’t need to only appeals to those who already back him.

There’s a good 20-30% of the population that’s only vaccine hesitant, not anti vaccine. Let’s start taking steps to win them over.

Agreed on everything but the Biden mask part. I think that’s a symbolic gesture attempting to normalize mask wearing. One issue with masks since the beginning is that we as Americans were just not used to wearing them or seeing them in public. If a leader wants me to wear a mask even after vaccinated then they better do the same thing. Once masks are not required for vaccinated people I would hope he stops wearing them.

I am at the point now where I think we are almost there and just need to get over the hump. What the Orange County mayor did was a calculated risk. He set a threshold knowing that when the county hits the vaccination target the cases per day may not be where they need to be, but he’s trusting the science and the effectiveness of the vaccines. If his actions lead to even 10% more people getting vaccinated then it’s a huge win. I think it’s time for that nationally. I’d rather see more people take the jab then hold out for a more conservative target based on cases per day.

The people opposed to this plan are almost all already vaccinated. If you take the time to listen to the other side and really listen to why they say they won’t get the vaccine right now a number of people are saying they see no reward for doing so. I think that’s crazy, but I’m already vaccinated and not part of the group we need to convince. Having a firm vaccination target takes that excuse off the table. Will people shift to another excuse? Maybe, but what’s the harm in trying it and actually believing these people are being sincere? If no additional people get vaccinated we never hit the target so no harm no foul.

 

[FormerMember]

There’s a good 20-30% of the population that’s only vaccine hesitant, not anti vaccine. Let’s start taking steps to win them over.

Correct. The folks I know, and this is obviously anecdotal, since I am not a pollster or anything....

They aren't anti-vax. In fact, they are pro vax. Kids all vaxxed up, they are all vaxxed up. No problems at all. What I always hear is...

"I'm not afraid of getting Covid, and nothing changes for me after the vaccine, so why bother?" Or some variant of that. These people aren't going viral fighting in grocery stores about masks. They are regular people who follow all the "rules". They just aren't interested in an experimental medicine that changes nothing for them. IMO, a very reasonable take.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I’m not sure outside was ever that dangerous - note the widespread flatting of the curve during the outdoor season last year...

...IF...you can trust the public not to be morons.
And we certainly have proved that’s not to be the case.

people were still ontop of each other in warm climates. How hard is it to simply back the hell off? Because the brain can’t retain that?

like it or not...much of policy is 100% necessary idiot proofing. Had this happened 20 years ago...it would have gone much better.

Agreed 100%.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Correct. The folks I know, and this is obviously anecdotal, since I am not a pollster or anything....

They aren't anti-vax. In fact, they are pro vax. Kids all vaxxed up, they are all vaxxed up. No problems at all. What I always hear is...

"I'm not afraid of getting Covid, and nothing changes for me after the vaccine, so why bother?" Or some variant of that. These people aren't going viral fighting in grocery stores about masks. They are regular people who follow all the "rules". They just aren't interested in an experimental medicine that changes nothing for them. IMO, a very reasonable take.

I don't think the "I'm not afraid of getting COVID" is reasonable at all. It's been proven over and over that being young and healthy is no guarantee of a good outcome, and we still don't know the long-term health effects yet.

 

[havoc315]

Well, Mayor Demings kinda did, but only as a collective. If enough people do the “anti-mask thing,” the masks can come off (in Orange County)

I wouldn’t say that was “kinda.”
It was totally explicit. And it has to be collective.
The same people saying, “people should be allowed to take off their masks as soon as they are vaccinated” are simultaneously saying, “and nobody should check vaccination status.”
So if you can take off your mask as soon as you’re vaccinated — but nobody can verify your vaccination status — that just means you can take off your mask whether you are vaccinated or not. Which isn’t an incentive to get vaccinated.

Demings very explicitly gave the incentive. Go get vaccinated. When you and your friends and neighbors get vaccinated, no more masks.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Bout 96%

The difference is that vaccine opposition is binary. It's either yes or no.

Mask opposition is a spectrum.

A. Anti-mask in all circumstances
B. Anti-mask for kids in school <----- Science is here
C. Anti-mask outdoors<----- Science is here
D. Anti-mask for people who are vaccinated <----- Science is here
E. Pro-mask in all circumstances <----- Federal Government is here

The problem is, people in E. like to caricature people in B, C, and D as if they're in A. People in A and E are just as anti-science as each other.

I’m not sure outside was ever that dangerous - note the widespread flatting of the curve during the outdoor season last year...

This is correct. It is also considered a dangerous, anti-science position by our public health apparatus.

 

[lazyboy97o]

There’s a good 20-30% of the population that’s only vaccine hesitant, not anti vaccine. Let’s start taking steps to win them over.

The people who can be won over are those concerned things like the timeline, side effects and/or just ease of access. As had been said repeatedly, the people who want to stop engaging in mitigation will do just that on their own.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

The difference is that vaccine opposition is binary. It's either yes or no.

Mask opposition is a spectrum.

A. Anti-mask in all circumstances
B. Anti-mask for kids in school <----- Science is here
C. Anti-mask outdoors<----- Science is here
D. Anti-mask for people who are vaccinated <----- Science is here
E. Pro-mask in all circumstances <----- Federal Government is here

The problem is, people in E. like to caricature people in B, C, and D as if they're in A. People in A and E are just as anti-science as each other.


This is correct. It is also considered a dangerous, anti-science position by our public health apparatus.

There is no stinking way I'd send my kid to school without a mask.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

The people who can be won over are those concerned things like the timeline, side effects and/or just ease of access. As had been said repeatedly, the people who want to stop engaging in mitigation will do just that on their own.

What's the endgame for the rest of us if this is your position?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

There is no stinking way I'd send my kid to school without a mask.

We know.

 

[sullyinMT]

I wouldn’t say that was “kinda.”
It was totally explicit. And it has to be collective.
The same people saying, “people should be allowed to take off their masks as soon as they are vaccinated” are simultaneously saying, “and nobody should check vaccination status.”
So if you can take off your mask as soon as you’re vaccinated — but nobody can verify your vaccination status — that just means you can take off your mask whether you are vaccinated or not. Which isn’t an incentive to get vaccinated.

Demings very explicitly gave the incentive. Go get vaccinated. When you and your friends and neighbors get vaccinated, no more masks.

Yes. The “kinda” was in reference to the individual. I’m fully supportive of his move, btw. Because it does need to be a large number of people for vaccines to have an impact.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

We know.

Spread IS happening in schools. It's relatively low, but it is happening.

Our district has a dashboard that separates whether infection occurred due to an in-school or out-of-school exposure. After-school-sports are considered out-of-school.

 

[MisterPenguin]

My question for @MisterPenguin is why the people at the worship service haven't been vaccinated yet? Is it still difficult to get a shot in your area?

I'm in NJ where vaccination rate is in the top 8 states in the country. Up until two weeks ago, people were still hunting for appointments for vaccines. The demand was intense with (anecdotally) seemingly everyone complaining about trying to find an appointment. It's a lot easier now, but in most places, it's still by appointment. So, we're using the doses that are being shipped, we can't vaccinate faster than that.

 

[Patcheslee]

The Mayor of Orange County laid it out. 70% get vaxxed and all restrictions are dropped, less than 70% and restrictions continue. It doesn’t get more clear than that. Are people really so dumb that they don’t realize that the fastest way to end restrictions is for everyone to get vaccinated? I really don’t think so. I think most of the people resisting realize this, but they have fought against restrictions for over a year that they don’t want to see them end that way. Getting the vaccine would be giving in and admitting that Covid was a serious problem. They want to see the restrictions end with the government giving up and removing them despite not reaching that goal so they can celebrate being “right” on Facebook. Sad that so many people would be willing to delay a return to normal just to save face. My simple answer is just go and get vaccinated and don’t tell anyone. This way you can help us all get back to normal faster, protect yourself and your family and at the same time save face and continue your online image of being anti-vaccination and a Covid denier. Problem solved

I wonder if the "and/or positivity below 14 day rolling average of 5%" is giving some an excuse not to. Sure he could drop the mandate if rates get below 5% without the 70% vaccinated, but IMO it would depend how close to that number Orange Co gets. I don't interpret the positivity as a definitive milestone. Some on the other hand may think they can just keep doing what they have and wait for positivity to drop.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Spread IS happening in schools. It's relatively low, but it is happening.

Spread IS happening with masks. It's relatively low, but it is happening.

We're never going to get to zero.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I'm in NJ where vaccination rate is in the top 8 states in the country. Up until two weeks ago, people were still hunting for appointments for vaccines. The demand was intense with (anecdotally) seemingly everyone complaining about trying to find an appointment. It's a lot easier now, but in most places, it's still by appointment. So, we're using the doses that are being shipped, we can't vaccinate faster than that.

That's about where MA is, too. When we got our 1st jabs on the 20th, it was still really hard to get an appointment. I know they're adding more vaccination sites, but it's slow going. I also know that some sites are only getting a few hundred doses a week.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Spread IS happening with masks. It's relatively low, but it is happening.

We're never going to get to zero.

I don't expect to get to zero.

My point is that we know that masks help prevent spread when everyone wears them. Kids in school without masks would be disastrous.