Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.

havoc315

Well-Known Member
Where are you getting 50k? That’s the median income for a solo earner in this country, there is no way unemployment is paying you median income.

But you’d have to surpass unemployment to attract workers.

Really, I’m talking about demonstratively, that you can’t expect wage increases not to have an effect on product pricing.

I actually fully support a $15 minimum wage.

But the facts are, right now, a worker can get $14-15 per hour on unemployment, as well as rent/mortgage forbearance and other benefits.
$15 per hour, on an annual basis, is $30,000 per year.
So if a rational worker can live rent free and make $30,000 per year... how much would you need to pay them to attract them to flip hamburgers.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
They could. I believe what @havoc315 is saying is that they modified the FP+ code to make it work for Park Pass, and it will no longer function for FP+. So, unless they copied and pasted it somewhere, that original code is gone.

ETA: So basically, if they want to make the system work for both FP+ and Park Passes simultaneously, they'd have to start from scratch anyways to ensure that they work together as desired.
The original code is not gone. That’s not how it would work in any IT project, especially one that had a billion dollar budget. We’ve been hearing from the moment FP+ launched that it was going to go away and become a pay service. These are the same rumors that have existed for 8 years now. It could happen but its not related to Covid or park pass.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member

‘The struggle is real:’ Orlando restaurant owner can’t find workers​



Central Florida Restaurants Struggling to Fill Open Positions

Business is picking up for many hospitality industry businesses, but business owners are having a tough time hiring.
One restaurant worker we spoke with tells us laid-off employees aren't coming back because they are making more in unemployment.

Like I said, the market will adjust. If we get to August and multiple restaurants haven‘t re-opened because of lack of labor then I will say you were right. it’s not shocking that there would be people who would rather stay home while community spread is where it is. That will change.
 

Heppenheimer

Well-Known Member
Like others have said the problem with the Florida Job market right now is that some not all are being lazy and still receiving unemployment benefits. I was one of the most hated Debby Downers when I caught wind of the Virus in November of 2019 and started stating guys get ready for a long term closure. For those in the know, Disney did have long term closure plans for Disneyland and Disneyworld i.e in the case of a Earthquake or Cat 4-5 Hurricane devastating the parks. No one expected Disney parks to be shut down for a year. and with that came a downturn on tourism across the entire state. Those who are hiring are hiring for 40+ hour weeks without benefits. No person wants to work without benefits and with the uncertainty that is tip share pay. Which has led to this.



For the first time in over a decade Disney Corporate Hiring site is hiring for just about every hourly position available at both Disney World and Disneyland Resorts. Which in and in its self has become somewhat controversial for current and furloughed Cast Members whom many are still awaiting a call back to work.

To the many who where intelligent enough to note that they had rent and payments still due, many left Disney/ Orlando and went back home or somewhere else across the state to work or finish their education to get a better job. While you can make a career out of Disney, the cost of living anywhere within a 30 min drive of the resort is near impossible to afford even with a 15 dollar an hour wage.

The Morale across the resort with those CM's who did remain are close to an abyss, many are happy to be back to work, but the uncertainty, the wishy washy regulations and now both the County and State lifting certain mandates makes for a very interesting year in hospitality and within the company as a whole. No one expected Covid. I almost always plan annually for a contingency plan in case I get furloughed due to a Hurricane, but this was unprecedented and beyond control.

Another key issue is that Americans as a whole are woke. Last night our current president politely reiterated his intention to ask congress to lift the Federal Minimum wage to 15 dollars an hour. Most ignorant people believe that it's in effect as Florida as a whole did vote for this in the last Midterms in 2018. However it won't be implemented for a long while. While one can find some companies hiring at 15 hr, i.e. Target being the one that most often comes to mind, the reality is that most of these now hiring jobs aren't offering these rates of pay.

Which is another thing currently plaguing Disney Hiring Managers. How do we compete with Universal, Seaworld, and every last tourism related job currently hiring when so many people have left Orlando due to a year of no business. Slowly but surely conventions are beginning to return to resorts and hotels, but the reality is that even those events are short staffed. Not everything can be attributed to Unemployment checks. After all it's become a joke around here that you can't hire a Lyft or Uber because of how high the demand is that wait times are hours long.

It will take a year or two before things settle down, but for now, this is the hard cold reality of Florida's largest sector of it's economy. Hundreds of thousands unemployed all looking for the same jobs. All we can do is stipulate and see as we progress through the summer which historically does tend to be Floridas busiest season. Even without the post surge era, this does happen to be the season of hiring as UCF, the areas largest university tends to end spring semester and all those students tend to look for work at quick service, hotels, and other hospitality related work.
Thankyou for this informative post.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I'm not trying to get into the public policy aspect. Merely pointing out that restaurants in the Orlando area aren't able to fully staff up.
Which may reduce Disney's ability to bring back full capacity dining, they might just not have the staff for it.

I'm not trying to get into a public policy debate about whether Disney should pay busboys $25 per hour so they will forgo the $14 per hour in unemployment.
I suspect many restaurants are just going to try to survive on lower staff until September, when enhanced unemployment expires.
Disney offers better pay and benefits than a lot of other restaurants in the area. In a lot of cases they will be poaching from the other establishments.
 

havoc315

Well-Known Member
Like I said, the market will adjust. If we get to August and multiple restaurants haven‘t re-opened because of lack of labor then I will say you were right. it’s not shocking that there would be people who would rather stay home while community spread is where it is. That will change.

It's because of enhanced unemployment benefits that people are staying home. That will change in September when it expires. And in the fall when Disney brings back the College Program. And eventually Cultural Ambassadors.

So the labor issue will work out by the end of the year. But it will likely be an issue over the summer.

I heard from a source that the labor issue is a big part of why Space 220 isn't opening yet.
 

havoc315

Well-Known Member
Disney offers better pay and benefits than a lot of other restaurants in the area. In a lot of cases they will be poaching from the other establishments.

Yet, they don't have their College Program, which they count on for thousands of cast members. (While they might not typically be kitchen staff, it does mean other regular employees need to shift over to positions previously performed by the College Program). They don't have their Cultural Ambassadors back for a while (that's a lot of the waitstaff and some of the cooking staff at many Epcot restaurants).

Basically, it is impossible for them to have full staff before the end of the year -- They need the College Program and Cultural exchange programs in order to have a full staff. So lack of full staff will limit their capacity to some degree (I have no idea to what degree) until the end of the year and the return of those programs.
 

corsairk09

Well-Known Member
It's because of enhanced unemployment benefits that people are staying home. That will change in September when it expires. And in the fall when Disney brings back the College Program. And eventually Cultural Ambassadors.

So the labor issue will work out by the end of the year. But it will likely be an issue over the summer.

I heard from a source that the labor issue is a big part of why Space 220 isn't opening yet.
Oh man I REALLY hope they work that out. I go to Disney in November and would LOVE to eat there!
 

havoc315

Well-Known Member
Oh man I REALLY hope they work that out. I go to Disney in November and would LOVE to eat there!

I have no specific knowledge, but I would suspect it will be open by November.

There had been hope that it would open by May, and that has gone by the wayside.
 

Touchdown

Well-Known Member
But you’d have to surpass unemployment to attract workers.

Really, I’m talking about demonstratively, that you can’t expect wage increases not to have an effect on product pricing.

I actually fully support a $15 minimum wage.

But the facts are, right now, a worker can get $14-15 per hour on unemployment, as well as rent/mortgage forbearance and other benefits.
$15 per hour, on an annual basis, is $30,000 per year.
So if a rational worker can live rent free and make $30,000 per year... how much would you need to pay them to attract them to flip hamburgers.
They can’t live rent free, just because there are no evictions does not mean that debt is forgiven, if they don’t pay up then they will be evicted come Sept. unemployment is not tied to rent. You are oversimplying this to paint the effort in the worst light. You don’t need to offer 20k over unemployment. That’s a 66% raise.
 

Chip Chipperson

Well-Known Member
Exactly. They have been quite clear that they are keeping the park pass system. So they can't turn off park pass and just restore fastpass. Getting them to work together is not just a couple days of coding by an IT worker.
Now, if WDW LOVED the fastpass system, then I'm sure they would be hard at work to bring it back. But it's an open secret that the FP+ initiative was a failure.

I'm not sure if anyone has suggested this already, but could they "expand" the FP+ system to allow 4 FastPass selections and add a new tier of FastPass that would view the Park Pass selection as a tier similar to the Tier 1 FastPass options in Epcot, AK, and DHS? So you would have to fill the first "FastPass" slot (park reservation) before being allowed to fill the other 3 slots, which would also have to be in the same park?
 

havoc315

Well-Known Member
They can’t live rent free, just because there are no evictions does not mean that debt is forgiven, if they don’t pay up then they will be evicted come Sept. unemployment is not tied to rent. You are oversimplying this to paint the effort in the worst light. You don’t need to offer 20k over unemployment. That’s a 66% raise.

Not trying to paint anything in any light.

$20k over unemployment works out to about $10 more per hour.
So how much more?

If you had a choice between sitting by the pool and earning $15 per hour, or flipping burgers for $16 per hour, which would you take? How about $15 per hour to spend quality time with your kids, vs $17 to mop the floor at McDonalds?
I don't think an extra $1-2 per hour is going to cut it.

Patina is offering $300 to $500 sign on bonuses -- In other words, spread over the first month -- they are offering an extra $7.50 per hour to $12.50 per hour for the first month of work.
So that's the type of extra employers are finding they need to offer. And even with that extra $7.50 to $12.50 per hour for the first month, they are STILL having trouble filling the positions.

I'm honesty confused about what you're arguing with me about. Fact is, without offering significantly more than unemployment offers, Orlando area restaurants aren't attracting staff. Those are the facts. I'm not debating policy. I fully support higher wages.
But the facts on the ground are the facts.
 

Touchdown

Well-Known Member
Not trying to paint anything in any light.

$20k over unemployment works out to about $10 more per hour.
So how much more?

If you had a choice between sitting by the pool and earning $15 per hour, or flipping burgers for $16 per hour, which would you take? How about $15 per hour to spend quality time with your kids, vs $17 to mop the floor at McDonalds?
I don't think an extra $1-2 per hour is going to cut it.

Patina is offering $300 to $500 sign on bonuses -- In other words, spread over the first month -- they are offering an extra $7.50 per hour to $12.50 per hour for the first month of work.
So that's the type of extra employers are finding they need to offer. And even with that extra $7.50 to $12.50 per hour for the first month, they are STILL having trouble filling the positions.

I'm honesty confused about what you're arguing with me about. Fact is, without offering significantly more than unemployment offers, Orlando area restaurants aren't attracting staff. Those are the facts. I'm not debating policy. I fully support higher wages.
But the facts on the ground are the facts.
$10 dollarsx8 hoursx5 days=$400 dollars a week, $1600 a month. I’m pretty sure people would work to get half of that at least.

Also unemployment is $300 a week, which is $15600 a year, slightly more then 1/2 your 30k number. 30k is $15 an hour. I would hope doubling your salary is enough motivation to work.
 

hopemax

Well-Known Member
Not trying to paint anything in any light.

$20k over unemployment works out to about $10 more per hour.
So how much more?

If you had a choice between sitting by the pool and earning $15 per hour, or flipping burgers for $16 per hour, which would you take? How about $15 per hour to spend quality time with your kids, vs $17 to mop the floor at McDonalds?
I don't think an extra $1-2 per hour is going to cut it.

Patina is offering $300 to $500 sign on bonuses -- In other words, spread over the first month -- they are offering an extra $7.50 per hour to $12.50 per hour for the first month of work.
So that's the type of extra employers are finding they need to offer. And even with that extra $7.50 to $12.50 per hour for the first month, they are STILL having trouble filling the positions.
What this discussion doesn't take into account is what else changed during the pandemic. There's a lot of basing the lack of restaurant workers on the idea that people are staying home on unemployment. But there was expansion in the job market in other places. A lot of displaced service workers found better quality employment elsewhere due to growth in other sectors. There was a story early in the pandemic of a restaurant owner who flipped his staff into the healthcare industry because that was his brother's industry and they needed people answering phones, and handling billing, etc. That's just an example. There were other stories about businesses intentionally hiring unemployed service workers because it was the thing they could do during the pandemic "to help," and they turned out to be quality workers for their needs. Not everyone who was a line cook or a server wants or needs to still be a cook or a server. The competition isn't just unemployment, which has an end date. It's also the other industries that saw a glut of potential labor and picked out the best ones for themselves.

Restaurants might simply have to be faced with "restaurant work sucks," and they will have to do more about long-term wages and working conditions and not short term incentives. Am I reading correctly that FL's unemployment rate is at 4.7%, down from the pandemic high of 14.2%? That doesn't sound like a lot of people choosing to remain unemployed, as much as lack of people.
 

havoc315

Well-Known Member
What this discussion doesn't take into account is what else changed during the pandemic. There's a lot of basing the lack of restaurant workers on the idea that people are staying home on unemployment. But there was expansion in the job market in other places. A lot of displaced service workers found better quality employment elsewhere due to growth in other sectors. There was a story early in the pandemic of a restaurant owner who flipped his staff into the healthcare industry because that was his brother's industry and they needed people answering phones, and handling billing, etc. That's just an example. There were other stories about businesses intentionally hiring unemployed service workers because it was the thing they could do during the pandemic "to help," and they turned out to be quality workers for their needs. Not everyone who was a line cook or a server wants or needs to still be a cook or a server. The competition isn't just unemployment, which has an end date. It's also the other industries that saw a glut of potential labor and picked out the best ones for themselves.

Restaurants might simply have to be faced with "restaurant work sucks," and they will have to do more about long-term wages and working conditions and not short term incentives. Am I reading correctly that FL's unemployment rate is at 4.7%, down from the pandemic high of 14.2%? That doesn't sound like a lot of people choosing to remain unemployed, as much as lack of people.

All that might be true. They aren't filling the spots at the formerly prevailing wages, whatever the cause.
 

Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure if anyone has suggested this already, but could they "expand" the FP+ system to allow 4 FastPass selections and add a new tier of FastPass that would view the Park Pass selection as a tier similar to the Tier 1 FastPass options in Epcot, AK, and DHS? So you would have to fill the first "FastPass" slot (park reservation) before being allowed to fill the other 3 slots, which would also have to be in the same park?
They could buy they won't. They want to make money off of FP
 

danlb_2000

Premium Member
NYC plans to open fully July 1. Using science and data we know today in April it ok to open NYC on July 1.

I love arbitrary scientific decision making 😷

July 1 is a goal, not a hard date...

“We have the evidence now that really makes clear this is the right goal. We will make adjustments as we go along,” Hizzoner said, explaining, “We’ll work with all the other levels of government, but we’ve got to work toward a goal at this point.”
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom