Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[ImperfectPixie]

This is what I find so baffling. They are “brave” enough to risk the virus yet can’t bring themselves to take a free, safe, and highly effective vaccine. It makes no sense to me.

It really doesn't. We've snuffed out so many diseases in this country with vaccines...they are a very good thing, and it kills me to think that we may see old, long beaten diseases come back to the US because people are following bad advice.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I believe so. I haven’t been watching every state, but the states around me are either open or opening! (I hope to get my first shot this week!)

they’re gonna hit it...

the problem now is getting people to take it.

we’re at low 30% fully vaccinated...when we could be in the 40s and rising.

this is so stupid...the damage being done by the political “cult of morons” continues to grow. We should still have lines around the block gobbling up doses while the smart people concentrate on boosters in the fall and kids.

so

damn

stupid

!

 

[sullyinMT]

This is what I find so baffling. They are “brave” enough to risk the virus yet can’t bring themselves to take a free, safe, and highly effective vaccine. It makes no sense to me.

Too many think they’re taking the vaccine to protect themselves, without understanding the purpose of community protection. In this regard, they were failed in the education system, and will fail their eventual children who get Polio or measles.

I don’t know what campaign could change that, but it needed to start a while ago. Either way, some of them will figure it out later when things open up and their demographic is the driving force of remaining cases and death. They’ll get vaccinated to protect themselves, but they’ll help us all.

 

[mmascari]

I'm a millennial (33), not getting vaccinated neither are my kids and my wife decided against it too. We are in great shape and have zero health concerns. We are outside everyday and don't have a vitamin D deficiency. We understand how good health can keep us from getting sick and even spreading any type of virus.

You specifically, and everyone else following this path will enable a transmission path to exist, slow the reductions in cases, prolong how long mitigation’s are required in public. Which I suppose doesn’t bother you at all, since you’re probably already ignoring them.

Your actions and decisions have a direct negative impact on my family’s long term health chances. Your decisions will create additional economic harm for the entire country. Why do you hate us?

 

[DCBaker]

According to the latest CDC Covid-19 tracker update, over 50% of adults in the US have now had at least 1 dose of the vaccine.

COVID Data Tracker

CDC’s home for COVID-19 data. Visualizations, graphs, and data in one easy-to-use website.

covid.cdc.gov

 

[DisneyDebRob]

I’m not sure I see a whole lot of people here saying we should remove all restrictions right now, at least not anyone who hasn’t been saying that since the start. We have to keep restrictions now until cases actually drop. The vaccines should drive that, but we need to get them done first before restrictions can be removed.

I think there’s a big difference between talking about a future end state where restrictions are lifted and suggesting that all restrictions should be lifted now. At some point Covid restrictions should and will be relaxed. We cannot keep living this way indefinitely just in case a new variant might come along or because cases haven’t gone all the way to zero. I base my opinions on the science. The science is showing me that vaccines are very effective and will drive cases down. Once enough people get vaccinated we can and will start to relax restrictions and start returning to normal. Numerous studies have shown that vaccinated people are very unlikely to get Infected or spread covid 2 weeks past their second shot. The only thing that can stop our progress is vaccine hesitancy but I still think we can get to 70%+ of eligible people vaccinated which should be enough.

It may seem selfish or self serving to say, but if 70%+ of the eligible people get vaccinated I see no good reason why they should continue to restrict their activities indefinitely because the other 30% won’t get the vaccine. We will never get to 100% vaccinated so we have to live with a percent of people unvaccinated. The largest risk is to the unvaccinated. Breakthrough infection is pretty rare and if we get to 70%+ vaccinated will be even more rare as less community spread will be around. Eventually the 30% not vaccinated will either get the shot or become naturally immune.

On the variant front, I think we should react to the situation as it occurs. We can’t assume a variant that is resistant to the vaccines is coming and keep restrictions because of it. If a dooms day variant emerges then we adjust. We can always go back to temporary restrictions until a new vaccine can be developed and distributed. In an ideal world we get cases to near zero and we don’t have to worry about future spread, but no realistic level of mitigations is going to get us there. We have proven over the past year+ that people won’t follow strict restrictions. Sad but true. So it’s vaccine or bust for getting us out of this. So far the vaccine rollout is going strong.

A few of us have been here a long time. Probably way to long! There are, IMO more here saying to open things up fully now more then ever. I mean I get it.. vaccines are flowing.. mental health needs a shot of normalcy.. but I do think lately things are moving away from the real science as Buford said, and moving towards the.. well it’s won’t be as bad as before so let’s jumpstart things. The states are mostly doing it so why wouldn’t the people start thinking it. But early in my opinion.
As for the variants, you are correct.. attack them as they come along. But with what people are saying here.. or other places.. I’m young.. I’m healthy.. no need fir the vaccine. Well that hurts us who did get it possibly as you well know.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You specifically, and everyone else following this path will enable a transmission path to exist, slow the reductions in cases, prolong how long mitigation’s are required in public. Which I suppose doesn’t bother you at all, since you’re probably already ignoring them.

Your actions and decisions have a direct negative impact on my family’s long term health chances. Your decisions will create additional economic harm for the entire country. Why do you hate us?

I love every declaration of people “wanting ma freedom” by doing exactly what will force the public officials to slow the resumption of them

 

[GoofGoof]

they’re gonna hit it...

the problem now is getting people to take it.

we’re at low 30% fully vaccinated...when we could be in the 40s and rising.

this is so stupid...the damage being done by the political “cult of morons” continues to grow. We should still have lines around the block gobbling up doses while the smart people concentrate on boosters in the fall and kids.

so

damn

stupid

!

Keep the faith brother ...yesterday we officially reached the point where the majority of American adults have started the vaccine process. It will be weeks still until they are all fully immune but I am assuming that once started the vast majority will finish. We are a week or 2 at most away from kids 12-15 becoming eligible making an additional 30M Americans under 18 eligible or 85% of the total population eligible. 81% of 65+ have started too and that number is still growing each day. I have no dilutions that the under 65 demographic will have as high a percentage but even 70% of eligible by the end of May will get us to 60%+ of the total population.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

@HarperRose This isn't specifically towards you, just the millennial topic others have mentioned

I'm a millennial (33), not getting vaccinated neither are my kids and my wife decided against it too. We are in great shape and have zero health concerns. We are outside everyday and don't have a vitamin D deficiency. We understand how good health can keep us from getting sick and even spreading any type of virus.

The vaccine is not going to save anybody from getting the virus or even spreading it. It lessens the affect it has on you. That being said we think it's cool if people do or don't get a vaccine. We could care less. We would rather see people take better care of themselves physically. I think if you look at the numbers you could look at underlying conditions and find motivation to eat a little better, run ane lift some weights.

A vaccine is not the cure all for this virus.

I would bother to ask what stupidity you watch on tv/read online?...

...but I don’t like rhetorical questions much

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Keep the faith brother ...yesterday we officially reached the point where the majority of American adults have started the vaccine process. It will be weeks still until they are all fully immune but I am assuming that once started the vast majority will finish. We are a week or 2 at most away from kids 12-15 becoming eligible making an additional 30M Americans under 18 eligible or 85% of the total population eligible. 81% of 65+ have started too and that number is still growing each day. I have no dilutions that the under 65 demographic will have as high a percentage but even 70% of eligible by the end of May will get us to 60%+ of the total population.

View attachment 550046

1. We should be farther
2. I’m afraid it’s gonna flatline in the summer/fall

that would be outbreaks and school closures...any of you “patriots” game for that?

 

[GaBoy]

Too many think they’re taking the vaccine to protect themselves, without understanding the purpose of community protection. In this regard, they were failed in the education system, and will fail their eventual children who get Polio or measles.

I don’t know what campaign could change that, but it needed to start a while ago. Either way, some of them will figure it out later when things open up and their demographic is the driving force of remaining cases and death. They’ll get vaccinated to protect themselves, but they’ll help us all.

If this had been a "polio" affecting children, it would have been a different story. Dad lived through that. Unfortunately a good "education" isn't cheap and his generation paid the price in seeing children his age crippled and in iron lungs. Hopefully this does not ever have to repeat itself but the demonizing of vaccination is not helping and we should be lauding these scientists as heros saving lives.

 

[GoofGoof]

1. We should be farther
2. I’m afraid it’s gonna flatline in the summer/fall

that would be outbreaks and school closures...any of you “patriots” game for that?

We are averaging 3.2M doses a day and some days hitting 4M+. The pace is pretty impressive. We are on pace to have mostly anyone who wants a shot started by mid to end of May so vaccinations will certainly drop off starting in June until kids under 12 get approved. Even if JnJ doesn‘t get restarted we will have enough doses for 80% of Americans 12+ by the end of May so there’s no reason to to be doing vaccines in the Summer or Fall until kids under 12 are approved.

 

[mmascari]

We have to keep restrictions now until cases actually drop. The vaccines should drive that, but we need to get them done first before restrictions can be removed.

I think there’s a big difference between talking about a future end state where restrictions are lifted and suggesting that all restrictions should be lifted now. At some point Covid restrictions should and will be relaxed. We cannot keep living this way indefinitely just in case a new variant might come along or because cases haven’t gone all the way to zero. I base my opinions on the science. The science is showing me that vaccines are very effective and will drive cases down.

Yes, we need community spread reduced prior to reduced mitigation from anyone, personally vaccinated or not.

Once enough people get vaccinated we can and will start to relax restrictions and start returning to normal. Numerous studies have shown that vaccinated people are very unlikely to get Infected or spread covid 2 weeks past their second shot. The only thing that can stop our progress is vaccine hesitancy but I still think we can get to 70%+ of eligible people vaccinated which should be enough.

It may seem selfish or self serving to say, but if 70%+ of the eligible people get vaccinated I see no good reason why they should continue to restrict their activities indefinitely because the other 30% won’t get the vaccine. We will never get to 100% vaccinated so we have to live with a percent of people unvaccinated. The largest risk is to the unvaccinated. Breakthrough infection is pretty rare and if we get to 70%+ vaccinated will be even more rare as less community spread will be around. Eventually the 30% not vaccinated will either get the shot or become naturally immune.

On the variant front, I think we should react to the situation as it occurs. We can’t assume a variant that is resistant to the vaccines is coming and keep restrictions because of it. If a dooms day variant emerges then we adjust. We can always go back to temporary restrictions until a new vaccine can be developed and distributed. In an ideal world we get cases to near zero and we don’t have to worry about future spread, but no realistic level of mitigations is going to get us there. We have proven over the past year+ that people won’t follow strict restrictions. Sad but true. So it’s vaccine or bust for getting us out of this. So far the vaccine rollout is going strong.

This is the confusion, which is it, enough vaccinated or spread reduced? While the first will lead to the second, they’re not the same, especially if we don’t get enough. There are definitely posters here that only care about the first. Even if it’s not enough to reduce spread low enough.

I don’t think anyone here has suggested we need to keep mitigation’s after spread is low just in case of a variant. The message has been we need to keep mitigation’s while spread is high to prevent encouraging a variant. Those aren’t the same things.

 

[Tom P.]

This is good news on two fronts. First, every single state will be open to everyone 16+ as of tomorrow. Second, we are still hitting record or near record daily numbers for vaccinations. Especially with the Johnson & Johnson "pause," that is a good sign that we are not yet hitting a serious problem with demand for vaccines.

 

[LittleBuford]

I don’t think anyone here has suggested we need to keep mitigation’s after spread is low just in case of a variant. The message has been we need to keep mitigation’s while spread is high to prevent encouraging a variant. Those aren’t the same things.

This.

It’s on this crucial point that this thread has now diverged from the scientific consensus.

 

[Tom P.]

Yes, we need community spread reduced prior to reduced mitigation from anyone, personally vaccinated or not.



This is the confusion, which is it, enough vaccinated or spread reduced? While the first will lead to the second, they’re not the same, especially if we don’t get enough. There are definitely posters here that only care about the first. Even if it’s not enough to reduce spread low enough.

I don’t think anyone here has suggested we need to keep mitigation’s after spread is low just in case of a variant. The message has been we need to keep mitigation’s while spread is high to prevent encouraging a variant. Those aren’t the same things.

Serious question: what if spread never gets low?

 

[hopemax]

It really doesn't. We've snuffed out so many diseases in this country with vaccines...they are a very good thing, and it kills me to think that we may see old, long beaten diseases come back to the US because people are following bad advice.

Of all the things the pandemic has revealed, that you can eliminate the fear of infectious diseases in only 75-100 years is perhaps the most mind blowing. Thousands of years of human history of fear and we can’t conceptualize it anymore.

I was looking up Polio stats at one point and 1952 was the worst year. Like 3500 died but over 20,000 were incapacitated. Then compare the reaction and numbers to this? Like I alluded to above, we can’t even comprehend the long term medical costs of thousands of people experiencing things that aren’t death. But like the death wave, those costs won’t be distributed equally.

 

[GoofGoof]

This is the confusion, which is it, enough vaccinated or spread reduced? While the first will lead to the second, they’re not the same, especially if we don’t get enough. There are definitely posters here that only care about the first. Even if it’s not enough to reduce spread low enough.

I don’t think anyone here has suggested we need to keep mitigation’s after spread is low just in case of a variant. The message has been we need to keep mitigation’s while spread is high to prevent encouraging a variant. Those aren’t the same things.

Either way anyone saying either of those things is not saying remove all restrictions today and that was my point. The statement was made that people who were following the science all along are now saying remove restrictions now and I don’t see that as being the case. We have to start thinking and talking about timing of removing restrictions and returning to normal but that doesn’t mean people want to make those changes immediately.

On your question, I firmly believe public sentiment will be weighted towards enough vaccinated. How many cases is low enough to consider community spread not an issue? Is it cases only or do we consider cases and percent positive and hospitalizations and deaths? Nobody in the government today is going to commit to a firm number and say we need to be at X cases per 100K a day to remove restrictions. It’s going to be a mix. Vaccinations alone won’t be the only factor. If we get to 70% vaccinated and cases and deaths are the same as today then we obviously won’t be able to remove restrictions. If cases start dropping now, but we still haven’t finished vaccinating most of the people who will want a shot we should also not remove restrictions. We should wait until we get to the point where mostly any people who want a vaccine are done (likely June at the current pace) and then look at the impact of vaccinations on statistics. There’s no light switch or firm number, we see if stats are improving and then dial back restrictions slowly, if the dial back doesn’t cause a spike we continue dialing back, if it does we pause. At some point in theory with enough people vaccinated we can remove all restrictions and cases won’t rise. The dial back on restrictions can and will also start prior to reaching optimal vaccination status so we may still need masks and distancing and limited public gatherings but we are already seeing the CDC and others altering recommendations for fully vaccinated people and they can and will continue that.

 

[GoofGoof]

I don’t think anyone here has suggested we need to keep mitigation’s after spread is low just in case of a variant. The message has been we need to keep mitigation’s while spread is high to prevent encouraging a variant. Those aren’t the same things.

There are some who have suggested we keep mitigations until cases go to near zero in case of a variant or additional deaths from breakthrough infection. At least one guy suggested that. The question is what is low? What level do we need to hit?

 

[GoofGoof]

Serious question: what if spread never gets low?

The better question is why would we assume spread won’t get low. If vaccines are highly effective (which they are) and we get enough people vaccinated (on a great pace for that right now) then why wouldn’t cases and community spread drop to a low level? The common answers I have seen are new variants and vaccine hesitancy. Variants are a what if and hesitancy is the only way the vaccine rollout fails. If that happens we switch to plan B which is vaccine passports for large public gatherings and things like domestic travel. That will end vaccine hesitancy.