GoofGoof
Premium Member
Yep, he will back down for sure if it comes to that. He’s hoping to pressure the CDC and feds to allow them to sail without any safety protocols but that won’t happen after what went down last Spring on cruise ships.
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Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion
- Thread starter Parker in NYC
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- coronavirus covid covid-19
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sullyinMT
Well-Known Member
How it would play out in courts or at the negotiating table is anyone’s best guess, but I would find it beautiful in a way if the suit against the CDC produced meaningful guidance for fully vaccinated cruises.
Cruises could, then, theoretically, start from NY/NJ, SC, AL, TX, CA, and LA all before they do in FL. Seattle is in a different position with AK sailings so I’ll leave them out of my list. I’d be willing to bet, if that happened, port authorities in all parts of Florida would sue the state.
Also, I can’t be alone in those willing to travel on land or domestic air but there’s no chance I’d be on an unvaccinated ship if given the choice between the two (vaccinated vs unvaccinated).
GoofGoof
Premium Member
...port authorities and hotels and bars and restaurants and airlines and taxi/Uber drivers, etc...
oceanbreeze77
Well-Known Member
AKA the cruise companies know what's good for business 
The article I saw said the first sailings out of Florida were in December. The first one I see on their website is December 2nd. It may be a moot point by then.Looks like “game-on“ for the show down over vaccine passports in FL. If the order holds up in court it will likely cost the FL economy billions if cruise lines go elsewhere with the possibility that some don’t come back. From the attached article:
SilverSea Cruises became the second major cruise line to announce it will require COVID-19 vaccinations for all passengers when it resumes global itineraries on June 5.
The decision could set up a confrontation with Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis when the luxury cruise line is scheduled to sail from Port Everglades in December.
DeSantis’ press office on Monday asserted that his recent executive order barring businesses from requiring proof of vaccinated customers extends to cruise lines operating in Florida.
“The Governor’s Executive Order provides that businesses in Florida are prohibited from requiring patrons or customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 vaccination or post-transmission recovery to gain access to, entry upon, or service from the business,” press secretary Cody McCloud said by email. “Therefore, the Executive Order prohibits cruise lines from requiring vaccine passports for their Florida operations.”
SilverSea’s announcement follows Norwegian Cruise Line’s statement last week that it would require full vaccinations if the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention allows it to resume sailing in July. The cruise line is scheduled to run trips out of Port Miami beginning in September.
Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings also operates Regent Seven Seas Cruises and Oceana Cruises.
SilverSea’s requirement will take effect when the company launches its first cruise since the pandemic on June 5 — a seven-day Galapagos Islands voyage from Ecuador. No voyages from U.S. ports are scheduled until Aug. 29, a 26-day trip to Japan from Anchorage, Alaska.
Four sailings are scheduled from Port Everglades in December aboard the ships Silver Whisper, Silver Dawn and Silver Spirit. SilverSea is a luxury cruise line, with fares that run into thousands of dollars.
Whether DeSantis actually has authority to bar cruise lines from requiring vaccinations could become the focus of a legal battle involving the cruise lines and the CDC.
The Coast Guard and the CDC have asserted control over pandemic-related cruise line activity at the port, but most decisions have been made by a “unified command” that includes the state, federal and county governments, working with the cruise lines, said Ellen Kennedy, spokeswoman for Port Everglades.
Asked about DeSantis’ assertion, Port Director Jonathan Daniels said by email: “We are working with the cruise lines and through all local, state and federal regulations and guidelines to effect a safe restart to cruising.”
Another cruise line will require vaccines; DeSantis says no
SilverSea Cruises became the second major cruise line to announce it will require COVID-19 vaccinations for all passengers when it resumes global itineraries on June 5. The decision could set up a confrontation with Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis when the luxury cruise line is scheduled to sail from...www.yahoo.com
oceanbreeze77
Well-Known Member
I think the opposite. By then theres no reason not to get a vaccine.
JoeCamel
Well-Known Member
By the time it played out in the courts the emergency will be over - I hope
That's what I meant.
DisneyCane
Well-Known Member
I expect that the emergency will be ended in FL once there is enough vaccine for all who want it. I'd expect an order that ends all local emergencies as well which would end all County measures and restrictions.
DisneyCane
Well-Known Member
The vast majority who contract COVID are doing things like gathering indoors with several people, not just going to work.
The young people who haven't had the opportunity to be vaccinated and are contracting COVID are most likely doing things by choice like going to indoor parties and things like that. Some are getting infected by other members of their households who do those things. My point was that the vast majority getting infected at this point are doing something where they know the risk and are making the choice to take it.
That's why I say "the numbers" don't matter much anymore. The argument about putting vulnerable lives at risk by your actions gets weaker every day as more and more of the vulnerable are vaccinated.
DisneyCane
Well-Known Member
It's probably not that simple. When the ship is in State waters, I assume that Florida law applies. I'd guess that the EO could apply until the ship exists Florida jurisdiction. I think that was the concept with the gambling cruises that would go offshore a few miles before land based casinos were allowed in FL.
I'm not sure how a port is governed with respect to Federal vs. State law. A State can't pass a law that says you don't need photo ID to board an aircraft but apparently they can require you to wear a mask in an airport.
DisneyCane
Well-Known Member
Regarding vaccine acceptance by age, I calculated how many were vaccinated in FL for each age group between Monday's report and Tuesday's report. Here is the breakdown:
16-24 21,555
25-34 26,036
35-44 29,160
45-54 30,279
55-64 31,554
65-74 12,109
75-84 5,612
85+ 1,750
The 65+ group makes sense to be significantly lower per day because 80% have already been vaccinated. 35-64 seem to have roughly equivalent demand. Under 35 the daily rate is noticeably lower. This is the demographic that needs to be "marketed to" the most.
16-24 21,555
25-34 26,036
35-44 29,160
45-54 30,279
55-64 31,554
65-74 12,109
75-84 5,612
85+ 1,750
The 65+ group makes sense to be significantly lower per day because 80% have already been vaccinated. 35-64 seem to have roughly equivalent demand. Under 35 the daily rate is noticeably lower. This is the demographic that needs to be "marketed to" the most.
Patcheslee
Well-Known Member
How far out are appointments able to be booked? The 35 and under have only been eligible for 9 days, it may be too early to tell what the rate is for those groups.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
The big takeaway is the Governor’s office saying that the order applies to cruise ports in FL. That cruise line is relatively small and mostly irrelevant itself. Other much larger cruise lines, very critical to the FL cruise industry, already said they plan to require proof of vaccination and it’s likely the rest will follow. Most are planning to ramp up operations this Summer. Whether the Governor has the legal authority to do this is not even really relevant. Cruise lines that are already struggling greatly economically don’t want to spend millions on lawsuits, they will just move to other ports if the Governor doesn’t fold.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
That would be the fear for the local economy. If cruise lines go elsewhere to avoid lengthy lawsuits that’s a big blow to the local economy.
correcaminos
Well-Known Member
Just stop please. Painting with broad brushes doesn't help. My friends are in their 50s and hardly the partying type. Again not all groups are eligible yet. Are there younger ones misbehaving? Sure but at this point it stands... not all are eligible for vaccines yet. People have to work and go out for groceries. The family I know the 50 something matriarch got it first, not the adult kids who don't even live with them. Let's not be judgmental yet or trying to downplay how contagious this is yet.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
The article I posted described the ports as a combo of Federal and State/Local authority. As long as a ship is in port in FL it has to comply with FL state law, when in International waters that‘s not an issue. The flag a ship flies doesn‘t make it exempt from following local laws when in port. That being said, the Governor’s order is likely illegal overall for any business so it would be illegal for cruise ports too.
JoeCamel
Well-Known Member
A good example is the gambling ships have to be three miles offshore before play can begin
Florida has no significant jurisdiction over the surrounding waters — that’s Federal (why we have the Coast Guard).
Ports involve overlapping jurisdiction between Federal authorities, State, application of International and Maritime law.
A governor can’t just step in with an EO.
Where the governor could try (and likely fail) to claim authority is on the argument that DCL has offices in Florida. And since they have offices in Florida, they can try to dictate conditions on DCL operations. But that argument will fail — Governor can’t just go disrupt interstate commerce with an EO.
The whole claim that he will apply the passport ban to cruise lines is empty virtue signaling.
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