DisneyDebRob
Well-Known Member
Just say “ power trip “ in your opinion. That’s fine. We all have those.
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion
- Thread starter Parker in NYC
- Start date
-
- Tags
- coronavirus covid covid-19
- Status
danlb_2000
Premium Member
Bill in Atlanta
Well-Known Member
Science at its core is trial & error. The problem sometimes is who’s doing the trying, who’s measuring the error, and what ultimately gets published.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
Let me rephrase. Nobody that matters or has half a brain is saying cases need to go to zero.
Its been a rally cry of the “lift all restrictions“ crowd from the beginning that we can never defeat Covid so why bother trying. Now we have a vaccine that can actually defeat the virus (if everyone takes it) so the narrative changes to we can’t get cases to zero so why bother. We all need to continue what we are doing (or supposed to be doing) hang on for another few months (in 6 weeks we will have enough vaccine for every adult) and stop worrying about year old arguments because the vaccine can and will get us out of this (see Israel below). If we continue our pace of vaccination we will be where they are in a month as far as percent vaccinated. Their 7 day average cases is lower than it has been since last June.
Figgy1
Well-Known Member
Except for those that can't get vaccinated for medical reasons
trainplane3
Well-Known Member
Since PA is being all slow, I jumped the border to Ohio where appointments were extremely easy to get. Going back in 4 weeks for the second.
Flippin' finally.
Flippin' finally.
DisneyNittany
Well-Known Member
We are in 100% agreement here. My only point of contention in my original comment was "it's perfectly fine for the government to say".
GoofGoof
Premium Member
I don’t think the government should force anyone to take the vaccine and I haven’t seen that suggested. I also have no problem with a private business like a cruise line or the New York Yankees or Disney to require someone to either show proof of vaccination or a negative Covid test to get into a private establishment. That is up to the business and the free market will decide. I actually think in most cases the free market will dictate that vaccine passports are a no go. The few exceptions are one off things like international flights and cruise lines which are closed right now completely and may see passports as the best option to reopen. They will almost certainly offer an option to show a negative covid test instead of proof of vaccination.
Last edited by a moderator:
Let me rephrase. Nobody that matters or has half a brain is saying cases need to go to zero.
Its been a rally cry of the “lift all restrictions“ crowd from the beginning that we can never defeat Covid so why bother trying. Now we have a vaccine that can actually defeat the virus (if everyone takes it) so the narrative changes to we can’t get cases to zero so why bother. We all need to continue what we are doing (or supposed to be doing) hang on for another few months (in 6 weeks we will have enough vaccine for every adult) and stop worrying about year old arguments because the vaccine can and will get us out of this (see Israel below). If we continue our pace of vaccination we will be where they are in a month as far as percent vaccinated. Their 7 day average cases is lower than it has been since last June.View attachment 543899
I was about to post the Israel numbers myself. I agree with everything you said..
And remember... these Israel numbers are still NOT herd immunity. Unfortunately, they are starting to encounter vaccine hesitancy in Israel. But if they do manage to push up vaccines a bit higher, and continue mitigation a bit longer, their numbers will go even lower. Debatable whether they will actually ever reach herd immunity, but we are seeing how low cases can go even if a bit shy of actual herd immunity.
One tiny footnote for Israel -- watch carefully over the next 2-3 weeks. They are celebrating Passover now, much like Thanksgiving here. Will they see a bit of a spike? Whatever they see in connection with Passover, should give us a sense of Memorial Day and July 4th type effects.
Purely guessing -- Israel may see a temporary bump up, but nothing like their past big surges.
DisneyNittany
Well-Known Member
Again, I agree with what you said. My initial response was to:
havoc315 said:
So it’s perfectly fine for the government to say- “if you don’t want to take a vaccine, fine. But you’re not allowed on planes, you’re not allowed in restaurants, you’re not allowed in public gatherings.”
MaryJaneP
Well-Known Member
Someday maybe we will have virus detectors at entrances, like we have metal detectors in some places. Will some get through, yep, will some get stoppes, yep too. Until then, vaccines appear the closest thing we have. Hey, what if we had a vaccine detector? WDW would probably get and use either and/or both.
Air travel falls within Federal jurisdiction, and yes -- It will be the government that dictates whether vaccination is required for air travel.
Cruise lines -- Also Federally regulated, but there is also a lot of self-regulation from the Cruise Line Association. Most cruise lines are already voluntarily moving in the direction of requiring proof of vaccination. The risk of a super spreader event on a cruise ship is just so darn high.
New York is requiring proof of vaccination or testing for mass gatherings -- weddings and events of over 50 people.
So it's really a mix of private business choices as well as government regulation.
boufa
Well-Known Member
If it wasn't a contributing factor to the death then it would be considered falsification. In the end, there is no systemic evidence that the numbers are artificially inflated in any way.
Figure in jail, figure in the media, figure in the whistleblowers... 99% of all the believed conspiracies can't exist because someone "in the know" would talk and blow it open.
The government likely will require proof of vaccination at some point for air travel. And NY is already requiring proof of vaccination/testing for various types of gatherings.
Now -- That's not FORCING anyone to get the vaccine. But it is requiring vaccination and/or testing as a pre-condition to engaging in certain activities.
And that is not the equivalent of Nazi Europe.
DisneyNittany
Well-Known Member
So the choice is to either play by your rules or not play at all?
Can't the same be said for you? You have a choice, either stay home where it's safe or go out and assume the risk?
MaryJaneP
Well-Known Member
WOW, a "your freedom is my captivity" argument. Who would have thought we would get there in this thread. Personally, driving head-on into traffic is much more exhilarating.
DisneyCane
Well-Known Member
DisneyNittany
Well-Known Member
Equivalency is not the point. There are degrees to everything.
The point is, you want to feel safe, so you are more than fine with your government barring people who don't think/act like you or do what you want from participating in society. You are okay with authoritarianism as long as it benefits you or you think it's "for the greater good".
I, even if I agree with what they are pushing (i.e. vaccines), am not and never will be.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
The government should not require vaccine passports for anything. That should be a decision for businesses. In the case of airlines, they are open today and have been open throughout the pandemic without people being vaccinated, same as Disney. They have other mitigations in place. If they want to remove the other mitigations they should be allowed to do so by implementing a vaccine passport requirement. Then you can have flights or Disney parks with no masks or distancing. It’s up to the business to decide which way works for them. In certain cases like International flights, cruises and large concert venues it may be that the only practical way to be open is with a vaccine passport and/or proof of negative test. I still don’t think the government should mandate it. In those cases it’s either jump through that hoop, do some other impractical mitigation measures or stay closed.
In the case of NY Mets and Yankees baseball the teams both said that their system is temporary until the cases drop low enough that it isn’t necessary. In other words don’t assume that will still be going on in August or maybe even June.
DisneyNittany
Well-Known Member
Yup! I'm one of those weirdos who (/checks notes) doesn't want to force my beliefs on you!
It's almost like I lived by a self-imposed lockdown because my wife was pregnant and my grandmother was going through chemo treatment, despite the fact that I fell into a demo that was essentially not a risk, because I'm an adult and have the capacity to make those decisions.
Now, those decisions don't come without consequences, like clinical depression and certain other things because of living on a self-imposed house arrest.
Crazy that I don't want to enforce that upon other people. It's so humane.
- Status