Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[mmascari]

Masks, but they were required already a lot of places. My kid’s schools were already doing the masks and distancing as far apart as possible but not necessarily 6 feet. In the classroom they were already less than 6 feet apart. They say they have no plans to change the 6 foot distance for eating but they are converting gym space to comply once they go back to 5 days a week with no hybrid.

So good news, they go from "mostly meeting the guidelines" to "meeting the guidelines".

That's still an item, they need the mask to be 3 feet. Eating with no mask 6 feet. That answers the question "what makes a school different than a restaurant". Nothing, they're the same.

Now, someplace else that doesn't allow mask removal. Someplace that doesn't sell any food. If they've got the same rules as the school, they should have the same limit. Make it 3 feet for all. Assuming the mask is the only condition.

Within WDW, they could have different rules for different areas. Whatever they're willing to manage to. There's no technical reason the need one set of rules for everywhere. That management process and how people end up following it shouldn't be minimized, its a difficult thing. I don't think they would say walking around you're 6 feet apart you don't need a mask until you enter a queue. To much friction trying to manage that, and while you're mostly 6 feet it's not always. But, if the rule is 3 feet when masked, the could collapse the distance in lots of places. They're already doing that on rides after all. A pick and choose your own rules to follow thing. The would just be in line if the rule changes.

 

[Chi84]

They may totally win. The should win. They should pin the liability on the person that lied. But, they're going to get sued. They've got the money.

You may feel that way, but that's not how the law works. I'm willing to give your wife the benefit of the doubt on infectious diseases, but unless your brother-in-law is a tort lawyer . . .

 

[GoofGoof]

So good news, they go from "mostly meeting the guidelines" to "meeting the guidelines".

That's still an item, they need the mask to be 3 feet. Eating with no mask 6 feet. That answers the question "what makes a school different than a restaurant". Nothing, they're the same.

Now, someplace else that doesn't allow mask removal. Someplace that doesn't sell any food. If they've got the same rules as the school, they should have the same limit. Make it 3 feet for all. Assuming the mask is the only condition.

Within WDW, they could have different rules for different areas. Whatever they're willing to manage to. There's no technical reason the need one set of rules for everywhere. That management process and how people end up following it shouldn't be minimized, its a difficult thing. I don't think they would say walking around you're 6 feet apart you don't need a mask until you enter a queue. To much friction trying to manage that, and while you're mostly 6 feet it's not always. But, if the rule is 3 feet when masked, the could collapse the distance in lots of places. They're already doing that on rides after all. A pick and choose your own rules to follow thing. The would just be in line if the rule changes.

I would assume if Disney makes a change they do 3 feet in outdoor spaces and maybe queues but no change to restaurants. I agree on-ride distancing is already slowly being phased out.

Sadly not all schools even require masks or distancing.

 

[JoeCamel]

The best thing cruises could ever do is require proof of a stool sample clear of noravirus and rotavirus prior to embarking... which probably isn't feasible, but it would be nice.

I don't know if even that would do it. Think what happens, people board and start stuffing themselves with food and drink that they probably don't eat/drink normally and never as much. The expected result is a strain on the plumbing and stray bits float around in the air and on surfaces, petri dish indeed.

 

[mmascari]

You may feel that way, but that's not how the law works. I'm willing to give your wife the benefit of the doubt on infectious diseases, but unless your brother-in-law is a tort lawyer . . .

He is not. She deserves more benefit than me too. Much more. She does however have to buy insane amounts of malpractice insurance.

And I am not. But, I work with risk transfer, and those are the things that come up. Both in what I see and her insurance, nobody ever asks if they'll lose or did something wrong. They ask if they'll get sued. Being right and defending to win doesn't even matter. They just ask if they'll be sued. They're not even asking if they screw up are they likely to get sued. They're always asking, even if they do everything exactly right, what's the chance someone will sue them for a bad outcome anyway.

Hence the risk transfer. As that's a great way to deal with doing everything right and getting sued anyway. Get someone else to deal with it. The basis of all liability insurance.

Doctors have it particularly bad here. Bad stuff happens to people all the time. Their family is angry and sad and looking for someone to blame. Even if the doctor did everything right, they're still the fall guy. Coupled with "doctors are rich" perception, they're an easy target. One where insurers want to make problem go away, not go to court. This feels like a similar type of risk.

Certainly, it's not the same as someone suing their real estate agent because the agent should have known this was a former "murder house" and didn't disclose it because they honestly didn't know. They insure that too, but they don't have same sympathetic adversary problem.

Even the Internet cow is defending a baseless lawsuit.

 

[Chi84]

One where insurers want to make problem go away, not go to court.

My husband spent his entire career in insurance - drove him crazy when they wouldn't fight baseless suits. I agree malpractice actions are particularly bad. My state finally put more severe restrictions and requirements on them, to the point where they are very difficult to bring.

And yet insurance companies go on selling insurance and doctors continue to practice medicine. In my experience, most frivolous lawsuits are dismissed early on in the process. If a business does everything right and loses a lawsuit, it's because the system has failed, not because it's designed that way. The same will happen with the fallout from COVID. I posted a link at one point about states that are considering COVID shield laws; it will be interesting to see how all this shakes out.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

Here we go again.

Masks are not theater, Fauci tells Sen. Rand Paul in hearing exchange

Dr. Anthony Fauci got into a contentious exchange with Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) Thursday over whether people should wear masks if they have recovered from Covid-19 or been vaccinated against it.

www.google.com

We are almost at the end people... let’s not let some voices in politics stop us from getting to the finish line. Listen to science, wear your mask. Unreal that this is still going on in the 3rd week of March, over a year in.

 

[Rich Brownn]

How do we envision this authentication is done?

I don't mean some fancy QR code smart phone app that's shown where someone scans it with an app it displays a picture of my face with a big green thumbs up.

I mean, how is the authentication done that gets my record into that database? How am I going to prove to that entity that I've been vaccinated?

Once we know that, the next question is, what's the special value I'm getting by having the proof?

Concerts, movie theaters, restaurants?
Visitation to nursing home and long term care facilities?
Crossing state lines? (not likely)
Crossing international borders?

Finally, what's my personal risk for lying and how hard is it for me to lie? Not the risk I cause to others by lying, but the risk to myself.

What's the risk and liability that's taken on by the entity giving me the special treatment if I lie?


All those things have an interaction with each other.

If I'm creating a very small liability for the entity giving me the special treatment by lying, then they don't care that much about how robust my initial proof creating my credential was.

If I'm creating a sizable liability for them, they're going to want robust proof. The credentialing organization could indemnify the group giving me the special treatment. Assuming they're big enough to accept that liability, then only they would care how robust my proof was.

They could force the liability back onto me, but really nobody impacted is going to sue just me. That's a paper risk transfer that falls apart fast.


The CDC card people are getting now, is NOT robust proof of vaccination.

If you're lying and positive, and not know it, you are indeed risking others. Not everyone can get the vaccine for one reason or another. Hence why herd immunity is so important.

 

[Lilofan]

If the NY Yankees and Mets can do it why can't Disney? For opening day the stadiums will sell 20% of their seating capacity and fans must show proof of vaccination or negative Covid test for their opening day game to be allowed to enter.

 

[GoofGoof]

If the NY Yankees and Mets can do it why can't Disney? For opening day the stadiums will sell 20% of their seating capacity and fans must show proof of vaccination or negative Covid test for their opening day game.

Nobody said they can’t....

Also, that’s a temporary move as the teams said they expect to remove the requirement by May. Disney could have required a negative test from last July if they wanted to. They went in different direction.

 

[Chi84]

If the NY Yankees and Mets can do it why can't Disney? For opening day the stadiums will sell 20% of their seating capacity and fans must show proof of vaccination or negative Covid test for their opening day game to be allowed to enter.

One reason could be the number of children at Disney as opposed to a baseball game. Kids can't be vaccinated yet and parents may not be too thrilled about subjecting them to COVID tests. Just a guess on my part.

 

[Horizons '83]

Here we go again.

Masks are not theater, Fauci tells Sen. Rand Paul in hearing exchange

Dr. Anthony Fauci got into a contentious exchange with Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) Thursday over whether people should wear masks if they have recovered from Covid-19 or been vaccinated against it.

www.google.com

We are almost at the end people... let’s not let some voices in politics stop us from getting to the finish line. Listen to science, wear your mask. Unreal that this is still going on in the 3rd week of March, over a year in.

Rand Paul and his don't thread on me crowd have been against the science since day one, now he is after Fauci again and trying to school him on the science. I get it, he and millions others are frustrated, tired and want to move on, but we really don't know the extent that the variants will bring. Like you said, mask up and be responsible until we are really in the clear.

 

[Lilofan]

Nobody said they can’t....

Also, that’s a temporary move as the teams said they expect to remove the requirement by May. Disney could have required a negative test from last July if they wanted to. They went in different direction.

I would say there needs to be extra security at the ballpark entrance gates to break down the news to the fans who can't show proof to enter the stadium.

 

[JoeCamel]

I would say there needs to be extra security at the ballpark entrance gates to break down the news to the fans who can't show proof to enter the stadium.

I'm sure they made the requirement clear before selling the ticket

 

[GoofGoof]

I would say there needs to be extra security at the ballpark entrance gates to break down the news to the fans who can't show proof to enter the stadium.

It’s pretty well publicized, but there will for sure be some idiots that show up to challenge it anyway. MLB was debating making that the requirement for all teams but then decided not to but left it up to the teams to decide. They have mandated masks at all MLB games to start the season. Philly is allowing 20% capacity for the home opener but no need for a test. So far Texas is the only team opening with 100% capacity. Curious to see home masks go over there since the state pulled the requirement. Also curious to see if they sell out.

 

[JoeCamel]

It’s pretty well publicized, but there will for sure be some idiots that show up to challenge it anyway. MLB was debating making that the requirement for all teams but then decided not to but left it up to the teams to decide. They have mandated masks at all MLB games to start the season. Philly is allowing 20% capacity for the home opener but no need for a test. So far Texas is the only team opening with 100% capacity. Curious to see home masks go over there since the state pulled the requirement. Also curious to see if they sell out.

If spring training is any indication they will sell out. Tickets gone in minutes

 

[MaryJaneP]

There's a drive-thru covid testing pop-up tent facility nearby that texts you the results in a few minutes. Seems like a viable alternative to proving vaccination, especially if person cannot be vaccinated. Yes, there is a cost. Add it to the cost of the ticket and consider the ticketholder lucky to attend a game while, simultaneously, knowing the ticketholder and everyone around them is either vaccinated or has tested negative.

 

[GoofGoof]

There's a drive-thru covid testing pop-up tent facility nearby that texts you the results in a few minutes. Seems like a viable alternative to proving vaccination, especially if person cannot be vaccinated. Yes, there is a cost. Add it to the cost of the ticket and consider the ticketholder lucky to attend a game while, simultaneously, knowing the ticketholder and everyone around them is either vaccinated or has tested negative.

I think that works for the home opener because it’s a more “special” event but as they get further into the season and it’s a random cold and cloudy Tuesday night it’s not going to be as tolerable. Disney could have opted for that approach from day 1 of re-opening, although tests are more readily available now and cheaper.

 

[Lilofan]

There's a drive-thru covid testing pop-up tent facility nearby that texts you the results in a few minutes. Seems like a viable alternative to proving vaccination, especially if person cannot be vaccinated. Yes, there is a cost. Add it to the cost of the ticket and consider the ticketholder lucky to attend a game while, simultaneously, knowing the ticketholder and everyone around them is either vaccinated or has tested negative.

I flew into the NYC airports a few months ago. Newark was advertising covid test with immediate results -$200 per person

 

[Heppenheimer]

I don't know if even that would do it. Think what happens, people board and start stuffing themselves with food and drink that they probably don't eat/drink normally and never as much. The expected result is a strain on the plumbing and stray bits float around in the air and on surfaces, petri dish indeed.

Get rid of the rotavirus and norovirus, though, and you at least get rid of the two that cause by far the most outbreaks on ships.