Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[GoofGoof]

^ So you mean by summer things may go back to normal if people will getting vaccine faster soon? @GoofGoof

I hope some form of normal. Maybe not a full return, but this Summer sure looks like it will be better than last Summer.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Last 2 weeks 6 people on vacation together all got it all hospitalized 2 passed. mid 50s to mid 60s all healthy. One of the ones that passed was a friend.

Stubborn facts. Inconvenient truth.
There are some who believe then will be forgotten for promoting hoax theories or misdirection.
They won’t be.

I had Moderna, my sister had Pfizer and we both made similar comments after not having any adverse affects from the second doses. "Hmmm...maybe it's not working?"

I had Pfizer...nuttin...

But to be fair...I think it’s highly likely we contracted it in January 2020 on a trip to Orlando...so i don’t think I fall into the biological “red zone” of this. Lucky me...I suppose?

 

[DisneyFan32]

I hope some form of normal. Maybe not a full return, but this Summer sure looks like it will be better than last Summer.

Maybe September or October will go fully back to normal? I expect summer may lose masks and social distancing or something. @GoofGoof

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I don't think it is good at all. Why on earth would you prioritize a teacher in his or her 40's with essentially no risk of a serious outcome if they get COVID over a 70 year old with a statistically significant risk of a serious outcome? While supplies are limited, every 27 year old teacher that gets a shot delays a 77 year old from getting a shot.

Because the “only worry about old people” was rejected about a year ago...

“And still...she persisted”

 

[Crunchie9]

Good for them? I know some too but I know many more who did need some treatment than not

speculative at best

 

[correcaminos]

There will be a growing number in your unfortunate shoes as we approach Easter.

Yep.

I suspect they will. They will watch the people vaccinated in January.... in April/May, if they appear to still be effectively vaccinates, the window will be lengthened.

Or they'll watch the trials which is where they got their data to begin with

 

[correcaminos]

speculative at best

As is yours. Really no point in arguing

 

[DisneyFan32]

What is next month about Easter guys, is the cases will keep going down?

 

[tpac24]

Because the “only worry about old people” was rejected about a year ago...

“And still...she persisted”

Maybe some of us would rather take our chances because the statistics show the more vulnerable may not be as fortunate! I would feel very selfish as a healthy under 50 person if I got vaccinated before those wo may need it more simply out of the fear of what could happen when we know what is happening to those most vulnerable.

 

[Chomama]

Wow, well glad its over for you. It's so strange my sister (40 years old) and my best friend (36 years old) had 2 days of fever/chills/aches much like you but my parents (75 and 84) had no side affects at all.

I am 40 and had 102 for 24 hours. My parents are 70 and had nothing. It seems to be common and research coming out about reactions being stronger in younger groups.

 

[correcaminos]

I'll toss out my reactions again since it's been a while since I was vaccinated, but I kept notes being in the Pfizer/BioNTech trial. I was 43 at the time. First shot sore arm a few hours later. Lasted 48 hours. Woke me up at night it hurt that much. Second shot, same though pain came faster. Lasted 48 hours almost exactly again. Any testing for fevers was negligible and within 1 degree of normal temp for me. As a woman in my 40s feeling warm randomly is not abnormal nor as someone with pretty bad anxiety for my temp to go up about a degree when anxious. Any fatigue I cannot guess was attributed to being woken at night or not. So cannot really comment.

So far only a couple friends have had bad 2nd doses where they called off work. One so far is reporting swollen lymph nodes. Outside of my age, there have been like no reactions to either Pfizer/BioNTech or Moderna. A bit jealous. Spouse has had only 1 shot of Moderna. We'll see how he does in a few weeks for the 2nd.

Even the trial warned the younger ones that 2nd dose was often worse than the first for younger people. Mine were nearly identical though.

 

[mmascari]

Actually, most people do. But those that dont, get a card which can be verified with biometrics against a Federal database.

Honestly, the whole "vaccine passports can't work" arguments are starting to remind me of the stupid arguments against masks at Disney World, that I was hearing a year ago. "Disney can't mandate masks, people will just take them off! Disney can't mandate masks, there aren't enough masks for everyone! Disney can't mandate masks, because people won't be able to afford the masks!"

Now, I don't think we will do vaccine passports -- because it's a political firestorm. The far right will have their brains explode.
But there is absolutely no question that vaccine passports could and would work, if we have the willpower to use them.

Israel is the model, they are working there.

This isn't a "can't work because people will not like it", it's a "there are missing structural issues required, back when the vaccine is given". It's not the same.

In the Israel case, do they have a national health system with a national electronic medical record? That's the type of structural information that makes it a different problem. We don't have either of those in the US.

I'm getting a little tired of all the "X won't work in America" line of arguments for things that almost every other first world country (and more than a few developing nations) manage just fine.

We don't have a national health care system. In this case, it makes a difference. If the VA is administering vaccines to veterans, they would be updating the VA electronic record. It would be trivial then to create a vaccine passport for those veterans and know it's correct.

There will always be some people who game or fake any system. But it would likely be extremely rare and extremely difficult.

If all you need to fake is the CDC vaccine card being given out today, and someone will create an entry in the super secure vaccine passport system for you, it's trivial to fake. You're not trying to fake the complicated passport system, just get a fake row inserted.

We can only hope that the government comes up with something better than the cards that are currently handed out.

Those cards are not intended to be proof of the vaccine. If vaccine passports become necessary - and I hope they won't - an entirely new system will be devised.

I travel several times a year. I plan on using my CDC card that identifies me as getting two shots completed if I need to show proof of being vaccinated at the airport or other areas.

For now, the CDC card is as good as any for proof of vaccine, since it contains all the necessary information that would go into a medical vaccine record (date, place, manufacturer and lot number). We have told our patients, if they have it, to bring the card to their next outpatient appointment so that we can transcribe the information into their permanent medical record.

Those card are designed for a person to know their medical information. They're very good at that. They're not designed to prove to someone else that you're not lying about being vaccinated, they're very bad at that. When the goal is updating your own medical record, there isn't any reason to lie, it would actively hurt your medical care. But, when the goal is to get something special, the incentives are different.

Someone faking it to get the special thing doesn't hurt themselves at all. It's a community harm instead, hence the misalignment of incentives.

The tech sector is already hard at work devising the system. I suspect even if they are necessary, we won't have the political willpower to implement them.

It's not a technical problem. It's a validation of the source material issue.

Digital verification could be done for vaccinating relying on those who administered the shots to verify not those who got it .

To be truthful I think adding it to a real passport or whatever is far more complicated and not appropriate really.

That's exactly how it would need to be done. The validating group creating the passport needs a way to know that the passport they're creating is correct. Cross checking with the vaccine administrator would be the most robust. Having a document that can be validated would be next. The current CDC card isn't designed to be validated as proof.

Real passports do all those things, and are already used when traveling between countries. For travel that also requires a visa, it's probably almost nothing to add this. For travel that doesn't need the visa, it's definitely more overhead, but I would still expect it. It's going to be much longer until the entire world is at the same level.

So vaccine passports coming to New York possibly..

New York Pilots COVID Passport of Sorts to Fast-Track Reopening: Here's How It Works

One week after Madison Square Garden and Barclays Center welcomed some fans back for the first time in a year, Gov. Andrew Cuomo is upping the game. The governor announced a pilot program Tuesday to test the Excelsior Pass during events at the two arenas. Think of the pass like a “COVID...

www.nbcboston.com

I tried to google this, but I couldn't find any information on how someone get's one. Lots of marketing speak and comparisons to other tickets, but nothing on how someone would sign up or how they tell the system they've been vaccinated. This is the important part, and it's completely missing in every story. They just say stuff like "a person tells them they've been vaccinated", it's all very vague on the setup and focused on the use afterwards.

A ticket is easy, here's some money in exchange you get a ticket. They've validated with 100% accuracy that you gave them money. This isn't the same problem, even if the usage looks the same afterwards.

Those stories also say the event will still have all the mitigation elements. Which, if you're doing all of that, does it matter if only vaccinated people are there?

 

[Patcheslee]

Maybe some of us would rather take our chances because the statistics show the more vulnerable may not be as fortunate! I would feel very selfish as a healthy under 50 person if I got vaccinated before those wo may need it more simply out of the fear of what could happen when we know what is happening to those most vulnerable.

It's not always that simple. Many under 50 still have dependant children in their homes. In my case if I died my daughter would legally be put with her father whom was physically abusive towards me, the court won't terminate rights because he has not been abusive to her. Neither set of grandparents are physically capable of raising her, and she has no living aunts or uncles. If getting vaccinated reduces one way of possibly dying I'll take it as soon as I can.

 

[MaryJaneP]

Maybe we should have had the Bill Gates Inserts Chip technology added to the vaccine injections? JK

 

[Kevin_W]

... in April/May, if they appear to still be effectively vaccinates, the window will be lengthened.

Or, being a large bureaucracy in April/May they will schedule a committee meeting to discuss a draft of a proposal to change the recommendations for the window.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Anybody who claims that Biden is showing dangerous mental decline, but they had no problem with Trump... that's simply partisan biased nonsense.

They're not the same thing. Like... at all.

Trump is an unserious person who is either uninformed for informed-but-dishonest about pretty much everything. Joe Biden is an old man whose mind is failing him.

 

[Chi84]

Those stories also say the event will still have all the mitigation elements. Which, if you're doing all of that, does it matter if only vaccinated people are there?

I believe it does - because the vaccines are much, much more effective than other mitigation elements. In my opinion, people are placing far too much trust in masks.

 

[DisneyCane]

Because the “only worry about old people” was rejected about a year ago...

“And still...she persisted”

I didn't say "only." I am talking about prioritizing. Since prioritizing on an individual basis would be an unmanageable nightmare, the only way to do it is by statistical categories.

 

[GoofGoof]

Maybe some of us would rather take our chances because the statistics show the more vulnerable may not be as fortunate! I would feel very selfish as a healthy under 50 person if I got vaccinated before those wo may need it more simply out of the fear of what could happen when we know what is happening to those most vulnerable.

Just my 2 cents, but everyone should get the vaccine as soon as they are eligible. Let the government and health experts decide who gets priority, don’t jump the line and try to go before your turn, but when your turn is up get the vaccine. Remember that just like masking and distancing it’s not just to protect you. If you are not vaccinated you have a much higher potential to get sick and then spread Covid to someone else. Once you are vaccinated you are much less likely to be a contagious spreader. So by not taking the vacccine in order to let others get it you could end up infecting more people. This especially applies to anyone who is not restricting their behavior as much. If you work from home, avoid all but essential public contact and always wear a mask then perhaps you aren’t as high risk to be a spreader, but you still could be. Best to just get it when available. Every person who gets vaccinated is one less person that can get sick and/or spread Covid.

 

[DisneyFan32]

Just my 2 cents, but everyone should get the vaccine as soon as they are eligible. Let the government and health experts decide who gets priority, don’t jump the line and try to go before your turn, but when your turn is up get the vaccine. Remember that just like masking and distancing it’s not just to protect you. If you are not vaccinated you have a much higher potential to get sick and then spread Covid to someone else. Once you are vaccinated you are much less likely to be a contagious spreader. So by not taking the vacccine in order to let others get it you could end up infecting more people. This especially applies to anyone who is not restricting their behavior as much. If you work from home, avoid all but essential public contact and always wear a mask then perhaps you aren’t as high risk to be a spreader, but you still could be. Best to just get it when available. Every person who gets vaccinated is one less person that can get sick and/or spread Covid.

As three or four months I think Six Flags parks could lose their masks and social distancing by summer as cases low enough and many people got vaccines. By the way as Easter comes, is cases will still go down?