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Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

helenabear

Well-Known Member
I've been an IT person for 45 years, and the vast majority for the federal government in one capacity or another, and IT security for most organizations is way down the budget priority list. There are exceptions, such as the military, but a lot of agencies have a dismal track record when it comes to IT security.
As someone in the IS/IT field, I feel that if you claim someone is not good at IT security, you will be right much more often then you are wrong. ;)
I get your point but from what I have read of other locations with digital passport ideas is you'd have to be a good hack. Harder than falsifying a document. Security of info is a different ballgame.
 

GimpYancIent

Well-Known Member
You can't fake it unless you hack into a Federal computer system. They aren't going to be little cards you run through a photocopier. Government and tech is working on a digital passport through a universal app. (potentially international).

It would be easier to fake a real passport than the vaccine passport. And how easy is it to get a fake passport? Think someone is going to go through the illegal activity of getting a fake passport, in order to keep their job, knowing they will go to jail for faking it. When they could have just gotten a quick free injection instead.
Too many means of transportation / travel. Too many ways of entry and exit (legal and illegal). Too much bureaucracy. Besides by the time anything actually materializes the need for the vaccines passport (questionable in the first place) would have passed.
 

Heppenheimer

Well-Known Member
Actually, most people do. But those that dont, get a card which can be verified with biometrics against a Federal database.

Honestly, the whole "vaccine passports can't work" arguments are starting to remind me of the stupid arguments against masks at Disney World, that I was hearing a year ago. "Disney can't mandate masks, people will just take them off! Disney can't mandate masks, there aren't enough masks for everyone! Disney can't mandate masks, because people won't be able to afford the masks!"

Now, I don't think we will do vaccine passports -- because it's a political firestorm. The far right will have their brains explode.
But there is absolutely no question that vaccine passports could and would work, if we have the willpower to use them.

Israel is the model, they are working there.
I'm getting a little tired of all the "X won't work in America" line of arguments for things that almost every other first world country (and more than a few developing nations) manage just fine.
 

LuvtheGoof

Grill Master
Premium Member
Actually, most people do. But those that dont, get a card which can be verified with biometrics against a Federal database.

Honestly, the whole "vaccine passports can't work" arguments are starting to remind me of the stupid arguments against masks at Disney World, that I was hearing a year ago. "Disney can't mandate masks, people will just take them off! Disney can't mandate masks, there aren't enough masks for everyone! Disney can't mandate masks, because people won't be able to afford the masks!"

Now, I don't think we will do vaccine passports -- because it's a political firestorm. The far right will have their brains explode.
But there is absolutely no question that vaccine passports could and would work, if we have the willpower to use them.

Israel is the model, they are working there.
I never said they wouldn't work, and I'd be happy to have one. I simply said that there will be people that refuse vaccination that will find some way to game or fake the system. Nothing more than that.
 

Crunchie9

Well-Known Member
My friend was early 40s, healthy, runner, slender build, no health issues at all. Now 5 months post infection from school and only able to work part time. Just stop with this pretending it doesn't affect people who are young. They are not being prioritized over a 70 year old at this point either. The 77yo is not being delayed because of it.
I know several people who got it and didn't require medical treatment.
 

havoc315

Well-Known Member
I never said they wouldn't work, and I'd be happy to have one. I simply said that there will be people that refuse vaccination that will find some way to game or fake the system. Nothing more than that.

There will always be some people who game or fake any system. But it would likely be extremely rare and extremely difficult.
 

Chi84

Premium Member
If things develop to the point where a vaccine passport is necessary, they will not be easily faked. Most people will comply with the requirement instead of going to the trouble of trying to fake a passport. There will be those who try to cheat, but if there are enough who manage it, the system will change.
 

ABQ

Well-Known Member
Did you have rough first doses? I've read if you have had covid before both doses, the first one is worse. Additionally - I know people who recieved the second dose and only felt a mild headache for an hour or two. Everyone is different
Just a very sore shoulder around the injection area on the first one. Not so bad at all with the second.
 

LuvtheGoof

Grill Master
Premium Member
If things develop to the point where a vaccine passport is necessary, they will not be easily faked. Most people will comply with the requirement instead of going to the trouble of trying to fake a passport. There will be those who try to cheat, but if there are enough who manage it, the system will change.
We can only hope that the government comes up with something better than the cards that are currently handed out.
 

helenabear

Well-Known Member
Odd, I had my NEXUS card less than a month after I sent in the application (probably helped that I lived near the interview station, though).
I got lucky for my kid and had an appointment scheduled the next day so that did help. 2 days after we got the email.

Precheck was super super quick for renewal. Edit just checked emails and it was just over 10 hours to get approval notice
 

havoc315

Well-Known Member
Those cards are not intended to be proof of the vaccine. If vaccine passports become necessary - and I hope they won't - an entirely new system will be devised.

The tech sector is already hard at work devising the system. I suspect even if they are necessary, we won't have the political willpower to implement them.

There is already opposition on the far left and far right. On the far left, there is concern they will ultimately end up discriminating against minorities, who have shown vaccine hesitancy. On the far right, there is the concern they will end up discriminating against the anti-vaxxers.

So the far right and far left are already lining up against vaccine passports, which is why I don't think they will happen. But they would be good policy and would let us open up much faster and more safely.
 

Kevin_W

Well-Known Member
I'm getting a little tired of all the "X won't work in America" line of arguments for things that almost every other first world country (and more than a few developing nations) manage just fine.

I wholeheartedly agree with that. There is a little bit of a "we're jerks and we're proud of it! Even if it hurts us" mentality that I don't understand.
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
If things develop to the point where a vaccine passport is necessary, they will not be easily faked. Most people will comply with the requirement instead of going to the trouble of trying to fake a passport. There will be those who try to cheat, but if there are enough who manage it, the system will change.
I travel several times a year. I plan on using my CDC card that identifies me as getting two shots completed if I need to show proof of being vaccinated at the airport or other areas.
 

mmascari

Well-Known Member
Assuming it's not secure digital maybe. A digital passport would be really hard to fake. Not that I assume we'd get one cuz freedom and stuff

Digital would probably be easier to hack and fake. The government is one of the worst players when it comes to IT security.

Depending on the system, there's different attack vectors. The problem is, the first line wasn't designed for this. Let's say there's a perfect secure central digital registry, run by some perfect entity with perfect security between the group checking and them. Scan a QR code, they show your picture and the person evaluating decides if that's you. Even if all those things were true, it's still suspect.

We just moved where the fake happens. The process to get an entry into that perfect system still has to determine that someone was vaccinated and create the entry. If they're just taking your word and a scan of the vaccine card you got, they'll load people who faked it. This pretend perfect system will vouch incorrectly that someone is vaccinated, creating legitimacy for the fake.

I've been waiting to get my Global Entry approved for two years. This would be essentially the same program except they'd need to incorporate medical data and process 300 MILLION people. A vaccine passport would take decades at government speeds.
This is the type of process that would be needed. Something like a real passport, where they put some effort into validating the submitted material beyond just taking your word that the documents are valid.

It makes sense when traveling between areas with different responses, like countries. Transitions that already require actual passports. Adding a vaccine passport as an enhancement to a real passport makes sense. Starting to require passports for things that don't already require passports isn't likely.

Florida isn't going to set up entry check points on the highway or use airport customs for domestic travel all of a sudden. Which just means, eventually, the way Florida, Georgia, Alabama, and every other state are responding will find an equilibrium. At the end, we're not going to have a bunch of states under control and others not.

If we're not doing it at the state level, we're certainly not going to do it at a business level.

Cruise ships may be an exception, sort of. Since all cruising in the US involves an international destination, customs and passports are already required. Which means cruise ships can fall back on real passport updates with vaccine information, leveraging the nation state infrastructure.
 

CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
2 years? Wow what did you do to get that not approved?

Only do precheck. Got my renewal in less than 24 hours this week. Kid got approved this summer in 2 days.
It took a few months to get conditional approval or whatever they call it. Then many months before there was availability to schedule my interview. Then COVID hit and they shut the whole thing down. Then many more months to schedule the new interview now that they're processing again.
 

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
I’m not googling for you. Do your own homework, or pay better attention.
You're not googling because the answer is that Biden didn't do anything that led to the recent increase in doses. If you want to give him credit for some future increase in J&J availability due to the deal with Merck, okay. Having more doses of Pfizer and Moderna later on, his administration placed the order.

However, all of the doses currently being delivered were ordered by the Trump administration and neither administration has or had anything to do with the production ramp up.
 

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