Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Incomudro]

That's nice and all, but we weren't taking all reasonable precautions from day one, at least some areas and groups weren't. See: anti-mask protests, live and let die Florida, large parties in LA, and so on.

We also didn't know until now that these same precautions would crush the flu season. We were actually worried about a twindemic, so if anything we dodged some bullets.

Point is: Why not require masks for the tens of thousands of annual seasonal flu deaths?
Are tens of thousands of deaths not enough?
Don't people care?
At what death rate do we mandate masks?

 

[JAKECOTCenter]

Fauci, Other Biden COVID-19 Advisers Tout 'Really Encouraging' Vaccine News

Dr. Anthony Fauci also said the administration hoped to be able to start vaccinating children by late spring or summer.

www.npr.org

Dr. Fauci said they expect to start vaccinating children in late spring or early summer. Great news!

If all goes to plan, Disney could have a rebound in the fall and/or winter

 

[Incomudro]

Perhaps you're too young to remember the hoopla and cries of inconvenience and extra cost when:

• seat belts were required by law
• cars had to have air bags
• cars had to pass federal crash dummy tests
• speed limits were reduced as population density increased
• cars had to pass state inspections for safety
• people fined for not following safety laws

But if you're really going to compare driving accidents to COVID, assume 20-car pileups whose frequency increases geometrically over time... and there are people OK with that. They just want to drive fast with no seat belts.

Virtually all of these restrictions and safety devices were imposed on and required on the object of the vehicle itself.
Not on human behavior itself.

 

[Darkprime]

So what does everyone think of the J&J vaccine news? Think it will help reopen the parks any quicker?

J&J Covid-19 Vaccine Was 66% Effective in Late-Stage Study

Johnson & Johnson, one of the world’s biggest health-care companies, said it would ask American regulators in early February to authorize use.

www.wsj.com

 

[Touchdown]

So what does everyone think of the J&J vaccine news? Think it will help reopen the parks any quicker?

J&J Covid-19 Vaccine Was 66% Effective in Late-Stage Study

Johnson & Johnson, one of the world’s biggest health-care companies, said it would ask American regulators in early February to authorize use.

www.wsj.com

Very good news, we have a third vaccine. Should increase the rate of vaccinations and this one is much easier to store. I suspect this one will be targeted to younger essential workers at first, in order to save the Pfizer and Moderna shots for the elderly.

 

[GoofGoof]

Point is: Why not require masks for the tens of thousands of annual seasonal flu deaths?
Are tens of thousands of deaths not enough?
Don't people care?
At what death rate do we mandate masks?

Because there are other motivations in place for the tens of thousands of flu deaths. There’s a flu vaccine, there are flu medications that can be used once diagnosed. There is no evidence that universal masking would eliminate all flu deaths just like it hasn’t eliminated all Covid deaths. Masks we’re not implemented because of a certain death count. They were implemented because its a novel virus with no natural immunity and no vaccine and limited or no treatment options that work.

 

[GoofGoof]

So what does everyone think of the J&J vaccine news? Think it will help reopen the parks any quicker?

J&J Covid-19 Vaccine Was 66% Effective in Late-Stage Study

Johnson & Johnson, one of the world’s biggest health-care companies, said it would ask American regulators in early February to authorize use.

www.wsj.com

Very good news, we have a third vaccine. Should increase the rate of vaccinations and this one is much easier to store. I suspect this one will be targeted to younger essential workers at first, in order to save the Pfizer and Moderna shots for the elderly.

Yep, should speed things up for sure. Especially for otherwise healthy younger people 72% efficacy with no hospitalizations or deaths is more than good enough. Save the Pfizer and Moderna for high risk and elderly and quickly vaccinate lots of the rest with JnJ. We are on track to have all Americans over 12 who want the vaccine done by the end of May or June.

 

[Incomudro]

Because there are other motivations in place for the tens of thousands of flu deaths. There’s a flu vaccine, there are flu medications that can be used once diagnosed. There is no evidence that universal masking would eliminate all flu deaths just like it hasn’t eliminated all Covid deaths. Masks we’re not implemented because of a certain death count. They were implemented because its a novel virus with no natural immunity and no vaccine and limited or no treatment options that work.

There are still tens of thousands of flu deaths in this country from seasonal flu.
If masks as worn by the general public are effective in reducing the spread of virus's, why not impose them for seasonal flu use?
What's the acceptable death rate?
10 thousand and then masks?
20 thousand?
40 thousand?

 

[DisneyCane]

Who wasn’t considering the economy? Why was anything reopened then? If the economy was no concern then we would have went into full lockdown until a vaccine and never opened anything to maximize public health impact. Obviously nobody did that and we all tried to reopen as much as was safe when it was safe. This whole narrative on the economy was false from day 1. People want to do what they want without restrictions which I totally get, but it has little to do with the economy or lost jobs. The best thing for unemployment would have been to reduce cases and hospitalizations similar to Australia and New Zealand. Opening everything and ignoring the virus worked for nobody.

I certainly get what you are saying and will agree with your last post that with no restrictions, there still would have been a level of harm to the economy. People (like my mom) wouldn't have left the house for any non-medical and critical reason the whole time anyway.

However, with respect to Australia and New Zealand. Being islands, it is possible to completely restrict the borders. Here it is not even if you wanted to. Even if the entire USA went to full Wuhan style lockdown for 3 or 4 months, we wouldn't be able to sustain crushing the virus like those countries. Obviously, there would be a lot less cases but new seeds would be arriving daily.

 

[danlb_2000]

Because there are other motivations in place for the tens of thousands of flu deaths. There’s a flu vaccine, there are flu medications that can be used once diagnosed. There is no evidence that universal masking would eliminate all flu deaths just like it hasn’t eliminated all Covid deaths. Masks we’re not implemented because of a certain death count. They were implemented because its a novel virus with no natural immunity and no vaccine and limited or no treatment options that work.

Mitigation factors were needed because the spread of the COVID was pretty much uncontrolled. The flu naturally goes away at some point in each season, but that's not the case with COVID.

 

[GoofGoof]

There are still tens of thousands of flu deaths in this country from seasonal flu.
If masks as worn by the general public are effective in reducing the spread of virus's, why not impose them for seasonal flu use?
What's the acceptable death rate?
10 thousand and then masks?
20 thousand?
40 thousand?

I’m not in favor of that. If you want to wear a mask indefinitely go right ahead. I doubt any government will require it either. Seems like a huge straw man argument to say we shouldn‘t do it for Covid is either.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yep, should speed things up for sure. Especially for otherwise healthy younger people 72% efficacy with no hospitalizations or deaths is more than good enough. Save the Pfizer and Moderna for high risk and elderly and quickly vaccinate lots of the rest with JnJ. We are on track to have all Americans over 12 who want the vaccine done by the end of May or June.

I don’t like it....

Not really for the “vaccine lite” concept.

So if its only 66% effective at preventing “moderate illness”....that means a lot of lost time/strain.

If we didn’t have the better options...then maybe I’d be more down with this?

The novovax is 89%...love that

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I’m not in favor of that. If you want to wear a mask indefinitely go right ahead. I doubt any government will require it either. Seems like a huge straw man argument to say we shouldn‘t do it for Covid is either.

They’re trying to sand bag you with that question...

From an established “I ain’t doin a nuttin”

 

[GoofGoof]

I certainly get what you are saying and will agree with your last post that with no restrictions, there still would have been a level of harm to the economy. People (like my mom) wouldn't have left the house for any non-medical and critical reason the whole time anyway.

However, with respect to Australia and New Zealand. Being islands, it is possible to completely restrict the borders. Here it is not even if you wanted to. Even if the entire USA went to full Wuhan style lockdown for 3 or 4 months, we wouldn't be able to sustain crushing the virus like those countries. Obviously, there would be a lot less cases but new seeds would be arriving daily.

Who knows. Who cares. We could have done better, we didn’t. No point arguing now. The vaccine rollout is all that matters now. If that fails all Bets are off.

 

[Darkprime]

Yep, should speed things up for sure. Especially for otherwise healthy younger people 72% efficacy with no hospitalizations or deaths is more than good enough. Save the Pfizer and Moderna for high risk and elderly and quickly vaccinate lots of the rest with JnJ. We are on track to have all Americans over 12 who want the vaccine done by the end of May or June.

All though the overall effectiveness is a bit disappointing compared to its competitors. Didn't operation warp speed basically say they were open to approving any vaccine as long as it was 50% effective or more? so in that regard J&J at 66% is a win especially if it stops severe symptoms and keeps hospitalizations down. Which is basically what a vaccine is supposed to do.

 

[GoofGoof]

I don’t like it....

Not really for the “vaccine lite” concept.

So if its only 66% effective at preventing “moderate illness”....that means a lot of lost time/strain.

If we didn’t have the better options...then maybe I’d be more down with this?

The novovax is 89%...love that

Novavax is 3 plus months away from approval. They just started the trial in Dec. Not fully filled yet.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Novavax is 3 plus months away from approval. They just started the trial in Dec. Not fully filled yet.

Still looks more promising.

I’m actually shocked J&J released theirs? It’s limited...is woody so cheap that he couldn’t have paid someone at prizer $10,000 to get the right mix?

Wait...it’s woody...he is

 

[Darkprime]

I will probably end up getting the Pfizer vaccine just based on timing and approval in my country. But if J&J was available id be more than happy to get it. More people might hold out for the J&J vaccine simply because its a single dose which is much more appealing to a lot people. Convincing people to get one dose is a lot easier than convincing them to get two.

 

[DCBaker]

Vaccine status for the country via Bloomberg Vaccine Tracker -

Bloomberg Vaccine Tracker

 

[Darkprime]

Still looks more promising.

I’m actually shocked J&J released theirs? It’s limited...is woody so cheap that he couldn’t have paid someone at prizer $10,000 to get the right mix?

Wait...it’s woody...he is

At least the J&J will still make it to market. Unlike the recent French vaccine that recently flopped. As mentioned above operation warp speed will approve any vaccine above 50% effectiveness. Its still a win in that regard.