Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Miss Bella]

I'll handle that one.

The article references "health care workers" in long term care facilities. Not all HCWs in LTCFs are nurses. The conversation was circling nurses and now we may be including a larger demographic of aides and support staff. We'd expect nurses with a medical education to not be leery of vaccines. Others, without that education, are at the whims of their news sources which is addressed in the article:

Peter van Runkle, executive director at the Ohio Health Care Association, told Business Insider that social media misinformation was among the factors leading to care home staff avoiding the vaccine. ​

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He said people feared the vaccine was "too new and was rushed through the process. The government is trying to do something to me – implant a microchip or do something else harmful. It will sterilize me. It will give me COVID-19. All manner of things from social media.​

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"Then we have a group who are just against vaccines in general, whether it is for COVID or anything else.​

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"Another group already had COVID and thinks they don't need the vaccine.​

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"Probably the biggest fear is the unknown. How sick will it make me? How long will it last?"​

As you can see, the characterization of concerns are partly based in misinformation. Some think there's a microchip in the vaccine or they'll catch COVID from it. That's not an informed opinion but someone who has bought into the misinformation. Other excuses include those who've had the virus and don't think they need the vaccine (which may be true).

So, there's only a partial subset of these HCWs -- who may or may not be nurses -- who are generally against the vaccine because it's unproven,

OR.... they're anti-vaxxers.

Not the kind of link that supports "oh yeah, there are lots of nurses who won't get the vaccine for good reasons."



Not according to the link which you yourself linked. See the quote above. Thanks for providing a link that disproves your assertion.



@sullivan.kscott deflated your first two links as supporting your claim (and their click-bait title... please critically read fully any article one posts), and I jabbed the third.

If this is representative of the links you can link all day... It doesn't seem like it will amount to much.

So why are all these stories being written? What’s the agenda? I posted them to show there is some reluctance not as proof of anything wrong with the vaccine.

 

[Miss Bella]

https://www.radio.com/knx1070/news/local/front-line-healthcare-workers-refusing-the-covid-19-vaccine

Arizona health chief says state might not reach 70% COVID-19 vaccination rate

Dr. Cara Christ says not enough Arizonans may be willing to take the COVID-19 vaccine to achieve some sort of "herd immunity." She says the state needs an impactful campaign

tucson.com

You can poke holes in all these stories if you want,but you can’t deny the media is covering it.

 

[MisterPenguin]

So why are all these stories being written? What’s the agenda? I posted them to show there is some reluctance not as proof of anything wrong with the vaccine.

You posted them thinking they said something they don't.

 

[Miss Bella]

You posted them thinking they said something they don't.

What don’t they say enlighten me.

 

[Miss Bella]

It’s pretty remote now, but the person just removed from this thread was legitimately peddling anti-vaccine propaganda a couple of months ago in this thread. I think you are being lumped in with them somewhat inappropriately, because you sort of rushed to their defense in what was a fairly gross and poorly thought out emoji (on their part).

In those instances I tend to disengage and not encourage them to have a platform. There is a huge difference between people who are personally hesitant and people who are legitimately trying to discourage the public and indirectly have lead to the crisis of vaccine preventable deaths; which are surprisingly not as uncommon as I’d like.

I was incidentally accused of harming patients, not obtaining consent, being paid off by nebulous big pharma, being scientifically illiterate and told to reference their Facebook groups. At which point it was clear there was no conversation worth continuing. I’m not incidentally surprised where we ended up.

I went back and read from Christmas Eve to Tuesday. I actually hadn’t posted those days and I didn’t see any anti vaccine posts. I came in after the fact. A poster wanted someone banned for being an Anti-Vaxer. I defended that person not because I support that, but because I don’t think people should be banned, bullied or harassed for not going along with majority. Mostly because I’m usually on the receiving end of it.

Chi84 commented on the emoji. I agreed with her. These emojis are used all the time to mock people. It finally took something egregious for the mods to finally say something.

Like I said did not see the posts nor the offending emoji. Yet for some reason I seem to be associated with it.

 

[BrianLo]

I went back and read from Christmas Eve to Tuesday. I actually hadn’t posted those days and I didn’t see any anti vaccine posts. I came in after the fact. A poster wanted someone banned for being an Anti-Vaxer. I defended that person not because I support that, but because I don’t think people should be banned, bullied or harassed for not going along with majority. Mostly because I’m usually on the receiving end of it.

Chi84 commented on the emoji. I agreed with her. These emojis are used all the time to mock people. It finally took something egregious for the mods to finally say something.

Like I said did not see the posts nor the offending emoji. Yet for some reason I seem to be associated with it.

Yes, I agree. I don’t care what the levels of magical thinking people have as long as it’s not directed maliciously. The very few times I actually emotionally engage here is when I think someone is being overtly cruel to other posters. Which has various shades of grey, certainly.

I think you guys keep the thread from being an echo chamber and are needed to actually see the full spectrum of what is going on with this pandemic. Even if I rarely share the same take.

Some people can be a little obtuse for the sake of it. But credit to you for actually still being here.

 

[HarperRose]

"A now former employee at a Wisconsin medical center "intentionally removed" 57 vials of a coronavirus vaccine from refrigeration, forcing officials to throw out nearly 500 doses, according to an internal investigation.

Aurora Medical Center officials had initially suspected the Moderna vaccines, which must be kept between 36° to 46°F, had inadvertently been left out at the Grafton hospital on Dec. 26. But an investigation found the individual "acknowledged that they intentionally removed the vaccine from refrigeration," officials said Wednesday.

The medical center, which is part of Advocate Aurora Health Care, has notified "appropriate authorities for further investigation" and added that the individual is no longer employed by Aurora.

"We continue to believe that vaccination is our way out of the pandemic. We are more than disappointed that this individual's actions will result in a delay of more than 500 people receiving their vaccine. This was a violation of our core values."

The vials can remain at room temperature for up to 12 hours. That allowed clinicians to salvage some of the doses."

Some 500 Coronavirus Vaccine Doses Intentionally Destroyed, Hospital Says

Officials at the Wisconsin medical center first suspected a now-former employee inadvertently left the Moderna drugs out of cold storage. But an investigation concludes they were deliberately removed.

www.npr.org

The pharmacist was arrested today.

 

[HarperRose]

I didn't see the person's job description who supposedly deliberately wasted the vaccine doses, so for all we know, it could have been a custodial or office worker with minimal medical training.

In my experience in healthcare, I've worked with my fair share of employees with, lets just say, non-mainstream medical opinions. In all but one case, though, these weren't people who held a degree specifically in medicine, nursing or allied health.

It was a pharmacist.

 

[Heppenheimer]

It was a pharmacist.

Yeah, saw that now. Motive will be interesting, to say the least.

 

[correcaminos]

The pharmacist was arrested today.

Wow. Maybe it's time for them to get out of medical work. Same with anyone who is pushing against medicine so hard. I don't get it.

 

[Miss Bella]

Yes, I agree. I don’t care what the levels of magical thinking people have as long as it’s not directed maliciously. The very few times I actually emotionally engage here is when I think someone is being overtly cruel to other posters. Which has various shades of grey, certainly.

I think you guys keep the thread from being an echo chamber and are needed to actually see the full spectrum of what is going on with this pandemic. Even if I rarely share the same take.

Some people can be a little obtuse for the sake of it. But credit to you for actually still being here.

I appreciate that. People disagreeing with me doesn’t bother me,but I sure seem to bother some people. I’ve never understood the deep seaded hatred some have for people with opposing viewpoints or as you say magical thinking, but that seems to be where we’re at in 2020.

I miss the heated arguments over Poly Vs Beach Club those were the days.

 

[DCBaker]

The pharmacist was arrested today.

Here's the story on that -

"A Milwaukee pharmacist was arrested Thursday and accused of "tampering with and causing the destruction" of more than 550 doses of the Moderna vaccine against the coronavirus last week, Grafton, Wis., police confirmed.

In a statement, police officials said the now-fired pharmacist was arrested on recommended charges of first-degree recklessly endangering safety, adulterating a prescription drug and criminal damage to property.

Officials did not release the individual's identity "pending formal advisement of charges" but said that in a written statement to Aurora Health public safety officials, he admitted "to intentionally removing the vaccine knowing that if not properly stored the vaccine would be ineffective."

The Moderna vials must be stored between 36 to 46 degrees Fahrenheit. They can remain efficacious for up to 12 hours if left at room temperature. Beyond that, the drug is rendered useless.

As a result, health care workers were forced to throw out about 570 doses of vaccine at the Aurora Medical Center where the pharmacist worked. However, some people were given the medicine that had been left out.

Grafton police detectives reported 57 patients received those injections.

The pharmacist told investigators he knew "that people who received the vaccinations would think they had been vaccinated against the virus when in fact they were not," officials said.

The value of the spoiled doses is estimated to be between $8,000 and $11,000.

The suspect is currently being held in the Ozaukee County jail."

Pharmacist Arrested, Accused Of Destroying More Than 500 Moderna Vaccine Doses

The now-fired hospital employee later said he knew "that people who received the vaccinations would think they had been vaccinated against the virus when in fact they were not," investigators said.

www.npr.org

 

[DCBaker]

 

[Chip Chipperson]

It was a pharmacist.

Absolutely disgusting, no matter what the motive was.

 

[Incomudro]

As the husband of one for the past 18 years, and coworker to many for 15, the term nurse is broad and abused. I’ve run into more than one CNA and MA that insist they do as much and know as much as a nurse. Then, even among the ranks of “real” nurses for lack of a better term, there are ASN, BSN and mid-level providers running around with varying levels of ability for thought and critical understanding. Some dear friends became nurses as an ill-conceived way to make enough to pay off their student loans in unmarketable degrees. I don’t want to be misinterpreted as demeaning, so I’ll stop there, but it goes back to my previous comment that we’re all people with different stories.

I’m not surprised in a profession that diverse, there is a percentage that will be hesitant. Even in these recently cited articles, it mentions that most will “come around” in the near future. I don’t get it, but whatever. Just come around in March or April, not some ill-conceived vapor “someday.”

My wife is an RN as well, she has been an RN for 35 years and often works as a Director of Nursing.
Yes, she cleared this up with me many years ago.
The term "nurse" outside of RN is a very broad one.
Many of those other positions often termed "nurse" do not receive or require much of a medical education at all.

 

[HarperRose]

Absolutely disgusting, no matter what the motive was.

Totally agree.

 

[Incomudro]

9/11 was a one day event not a year long. We didn’t divide the country into essential and nonessential workers We didn’t arbitrarily shut down small business while big box stores were allowed to remain open. We didn’t have a Summer of riots. Most of all it wasn’t an election year. There are so many things that divided the country this year I just don’t see it as comparable to 2001.

Plus, the attacks of 9/11 were visibly jarring and were attacks - by people - against our nation.
That kind of thing leads to an us against them form of unity.
A virus is an amorphous foe.
It's casualties more statistical than visual.
And it's a natural enemy, at least it is for those who don't believe it was designed in a lab and purposely unleashed upon us.
If covid's effects led to overflowing hospitals, morgues, deaths of first line health care workers, and so on - people would undoubtedly been more united to fight against it.

 

[seabreezept813]

It may be semantics but there’s a difference between no proven cases of transmission and no transmission. I know it’s a different age group, but I have a co-worker who has 2 kids in daycare and both he and his wife tested positive for Covid recently and they both work from home and hadn’t been out for anything more than groceries in weeks. The daycare informed them that 2 of the workers tested positive so they suspect that their kids brought Covid home. Since the kids have no symptoms they didn’t test them, but I suspect that’s the common a lot of places. Many kids are never tested so we don’t know if they had it and just had no or few symptoms. My friend‘s kids both had “colds” about a month ago and stayed virtual for 10 days (they have a hybrid system with a virtual option). The parents never got them tested and the cold like symptoms ended after a few days. Maybe it was a cold, maybe it was Covid. If it was Covid they most likely got it at school since they weren’t going anywhere else.

Near me the number of cases in the schools dropped down once they cancelled after school activities and youth sports. We had a large outbreak from ice hockey and most of the cases in the schools that were able to be traced anywhere were from kids spreading it to each other after school. I do think the lunch room is sketchy. For my younger son in elementary school they are pretty strict and actually make them eat lunch at spaced desks that are in staggered rows. For middle and high school it’s a joke. They block off every other seat but from my 8th grader‘s own admission the kids don’t stay where they should and there’s definitely no masks while at lunch.

Yup we have a few daycares closed here too with outbreaks. What we’ve been suspecting is that students might bring the virus home, but parents test positive first because they are more likely to have symptoms. There’s just no way of knowing how many kids have it without sample testing.

 

[seabreezept813]

I'll give a pass to any health care worker who is pregnant, since the vaccine studies in pregnancy are pending at the present time.

I was told when first seeing my doctor that I would not be allowed to get a vaccine until post birth. I assume this would be how all medical professionals are advising pregnant patients.

 

[SamusAranX]

They are if they encourage people spreading anti-vaxxer garbage.

So a person who has every vaccine except the Covid because they feel it’s too “new” is anti-vaxxer? Because I know a lot of people who have every vaccine known to man but have decided to wait and see