Chip Chipperson
Well-Known Member
No, but when comparing the flu to COVID-19, 330,000+ deaths in 10 months IS exclusive to COVID-19 in either of our lifetimes.
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Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion
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No, but when comparing the flu to COVID-19, 330,000+ deaths in 10 months IS exclusive to COVID-19 in either of our lifetimes.
I'm sorry for your friend's loss.
But, this post is just a backdoor "it's just like the flu" post which has been debunked a hundred times in this thread, and yet, you keep saying it like it's true.
Again, your self-proclaimed credential that you're a scientist is laughable since you get science so wrong so often. If you are a scientist, then you better sue your institution of higher learning for having failed to teach you statistics and the scientific method.
SamusAranX
Well-Known Member
Hey! I haven't attacked you.
Yet. The line's rather long...
It was a long line. Lol.
great movie btw
SamusAranX
Well-Known Member
Sorry to hear about your aunt. 2020 is an awful year for so many.
As far as what I posted “being in line with deniers”, with 2000 pages plus of posts, it’s kind of hard to differentiate sometimes, but no, I don’t “deny” covid and have explicitly explained my positions and what not many times in this thread. I’m not anti mask or anti protocol.
I empathize with you and your aunt; my grandma is 84 and hanging on by a thread. So I haven’t visited her at all this whole year; but if she passes, I will feel guilty I did not see her once more before dying. On the other hand, I would feel incredibly guilty if I gave her covid. If she lived locally, I would maybe visit behind glass. But she’s at her own home, 1200 miles away. It’s too risky right now, and an awful dilemma.
Disstevefan1
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the kind words! Everything we do to to bring on cardiovascular disease sure feels like a contagion. Cardiovascular disease will be going on strong long after COVID is just a memory for the majority who survive it and are not killed by cardiovascular disease....
But you are right. Let’s just ignore these other numbers and focus on the COVID death count....
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correcaminos
Well-Known Member
I get that you aren't, just explaining why some might argue otherwise based on what I read. I don't think you are, but arguments stated often are used by one side was all. I personally do think we are not looking at all the right metrics to tell the story anyway. Sure 50 and under have a good chance of survival but at what cost? I know more than one in their 30s and 40s who got sick who were out of work for a month or more. Some have lasting heart and lung issues. I care about that as much as rate of death.
I am sorry about your grandma. I can relate. Even before covid my aunt was prone to lung issues due to both CP and ALS so we stayed away as it was with any cold. I did get to see her a week or so before she died via Google Duo. I saw her a few times this fall that way. From March through July though no one could visit but the nurses tried to do videos once a week. It was a not so great end to her life to be real. She hated not seeing family and friends. Even volunteers were not allowed in. So lonely but at least when she died she could have one visitor at the end. But she died in her sleep so was alone but not by restrictions at least. It was just late and family had left for the day knowing it was close to her time. I'm a health contact for her and in April we did nearly lose her. That time they just told us to pray. I'm just glad she could see someone regularly before she passed even though it was just the one. I hope your grandma can live long enough for you to physically see her again.
Just because cardiovascular disease exists does not mean we should ignore Covid. Cardiovascular disease takes years (20-30 years) to kill people, unfortunately we do not recognize early stages of the disease as well as we need to but you still get 20-30 years. Covid kills weeks to months, it is very short sudden and unexpected.
Disstevefan1
Well-Known Member
I totally get it about the fear of giving COVID to a loved one! My mom is in her 80s and I am afraid to visit her because of COVID! Frankly, I am afraid of going anywhere because of COVID, not for my own health, but the health of my loved ones! The fear of unknowingly passing COVID to a loved one.
Am I being irrational? My brain says yes, but I can’t take the chance. Fear is such a controlling emotion and it’s working...
hopemax
Well-Known Member
Or days. On a scrapbooking forum I am also on, someone lost her sister (60). She felt sick on the Tuesday before Thanksgiving, got a rapid test later that day which came back positive. At bedtime she noticed her breathing was off, overnight it got worse and she went to the hospital. They discovered she had the severe blood coagulation issues, and she passed away Wednesday night.
We’re still back at the same points we’ve always been at. People are generally bad at perceiving risk with many things. Especially with large numbers and percentages, or things they’re not familiar with or to familiar with.
0.1% feels like a small number, almost nothing, something that can be completely ignored. But, when it’s part of a huge number and the impact is severe, that’s no longer true and even 0.1% can be huge and traumatic.
Sure, the chance that a specific person gets COVID doing activity X today may be small, but there’s enough people doing it that the chance one of them does is almost certain. The exact opposite of small. Which continues spread and means the next day and the day after the chance needs to be taken again. Take enough chances and they add up.
The move from 0.1% to 1% or 2% sounds small too, but it’s huge.
0.1% feels like a small number, almost nothing, something that can be completely ignored. But, when it’s part of a huge number and the impact is severe, that’s no longer true and even 0.1% can be huge and traumatic.
Sure, the chance that a specific person gets COVID doing activity X today may be small, but there’s enough people doing it that the chance one of them does is almost certain. The exact opposite of small. Which continues spread and means the next day and the day after the chance needs to be taken again. Take enough chances and they add up.
The move from 0.1% to 1% or 2% sounds small too, but it’s huge.
Heppenheimer
Well-Known Member
Death by cardiovascular disease and COVID are also not mutually exclusive events.
And once again, it isn't a rash of MIs that have suddenly filled our ICUs this year.
And once again, it isn't a rash of MIs that have suddenly filled our ICUs this year.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
I don’t think that’s irrational at all. That’s also why the comparison to heart disease is really not very good. I didn‘t see my parents for more than 15 mins for Christmas this year (outdoors, in masks to drop off and pick up gifts) because of Covid. I’ve never skipped Christmas with my family because of fear my parents would catch heart disease. Heart disease, cancer and car accidents aren’t contagious. Death from those things can be just as tragic as a death from covid, the major difference is that there are some mostly simple things we all could have done to prevent some of the Covid deaths, maybe not all, but the number didn’t need to be this high.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
It’s not contagious.
Covid is. And there is a more transmissible Strain that has moved out from Britain.
You continue to embarrass yourself with inferences to hoax theory. Just sit tight, do what you’re told and let’s get beyond this. It’s just that simple.
Then we can talk Disney park nonsense until we’re blue in the face...it just won’t be from gasping for air.
Rich Brownn
Well-Known Member
Unfortunetly the outcome for COVID is much worse than the flu. 20% of people between 25-40 report weeks of recovery. Many others have lifelong permanent organ damage. I'm not sure what your point is but again, COVID is much worse than the flu. In death, damage and recovery. And no, the survival rate is NOT 99% It's 97% when you only look at cases that have an outcome (survived or died). It's 99% if you count the people still sick https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Incomudro
Well-Known Member
We live nation where the obesity rate - not even the overweight rate, but the obesity rate is some 40% of the population.
We love a theme park where vast throngs of park goers grew to a size where they were rendered unable to walk these parks, limbs, hearts and lungs unable to support the task.
Obesity is something that we as individuals have DIRECT personal control of, in contrast to a virus which we are combating (up until the recent vaccines) with cloth masks and hand washing.
Obesity is the leading cause of cardiovascular disease, diabetes, various cancers... And consequently it's one of the things that is going to give a person the most difficult time in overcoming a covid19 infection.
Yet this same nation of ours has created a climate where discussing obesity and personal responsibility is positively discouraged.
"Fat shaming" they call it, and it had gotten so out of control that popular culture was celebrating obesity right up to the point covid broke out in this country.
Celebrated on tv shows, magazine covers, and all over various social media platforms.
The number one thing we can do for ourselves is to try to be fit, strong, and healthy.
These things should be championed by the media at least as much as mask wearing, hand washing, and social distancing.
Disney Experience
Well-Known Member
Personally my wife and I lost 32 lbs each using Diet-To-Go.
Best tasting and fulfilling premade meals shipped weekly.
Epicurious gave it a great rating. Mostly turkey and chicken with vegetables. They do have salmon one meal a week. ( But I am not big on salmon)
I have tried other diets, but this was the easiest to follow and most complete. Fairly expensive is the one downside, and no iphone or google app, just web.
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So who is to blame here in your opinion? Disney for being open? Or guests for going?
I still believe theme parks being open -and- holding guests accountable on COVID protocols (read: Disney, Cedar Fair, Universal on weekdays. Not SeaWorld/Busch, Fun Spot, Universal on weekends, Dollywood, some Six Flags parks) is actually doing a good service right now. It is providing safe, outdoor, distanced recreation for folks that are going to go out no matter what. Let's say a group of 5 or 6 friends or family members from different households are going to get together for a day out no matter what the guidelines/recommendations are. Theme parks give them an option to get together outdoors, with masks required, and distancing protocols with the general public. That same group likely would have gotten together in a home, bar, or somewhere else without masking. But the park provides a safe option. And of course the employees are able to work and the park is able to make it economically.
People aren't going to stay home. That's been proven for 9 months. Parks are also one of the safest forms of recreation with good mitigation protocols. I say keep the parks open and close the bars.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
I don’t blame Disney for being open. They have gone above and beyond what’s required despite attacks from the Governor to do less. I don’t think WDW is unsafe or problematic in general.
I do think people should have followed the CDC recommendations and not traveled in the last month or so as cases spike all over the country. There’s a difference between getting in your car, driving to WDW and spending a few hours mostly outdoors with a mask on and then heading home vs flying to Orlando, staying in a hotel overnight for a week, eating all of your meals out at restaurants with no masks on and being in the parks for 8 hours a day multiple days in a row. There’s a big difference there. It’s not so much that WDW’s theme parks themselves are not safe or causing an issue it’s that people are traveling out of state for extended periods of time to visit which isn’t helping the situation right now.
Especially now that vaccines are just around the corner and having a lower case count going into mass vaccinations will for sure speed up the “return to normal” we all crave so much, it would be better if people just postponed a trip to WDW for a few months. It’s not like it was in July when we had no idea when things would get back to any version of normal. The light at the end of the tunnel is in sight. Again, it’s not Disney’s fault, they are legally open. It’s not that anyone going is breaking the law or doing anything against government requirements, but they are ignoring CDC recommendations not to travel at this time.
Bob Harlem
Well-Known Member
Some Sun/Vitamin D helps a great deal with Covid and immunity in general, which is why I think this is bad advice, go, or at least go outdoors more often.
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