Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[techgeek]

Am I really supposed to believe that this is mainly due to people holding private get-togethers?

Yes. And, according to recent research, dining indoors, bars, gyms, and hotels / travel.

You’ve followed the rules, and because you and me and Oceanbreeze and Goof and a bunch of other people did, things are still bad... but it’s not as bad as it could have been if none of us did anything.

And, if we, the ones who are following the rules the best we can, stop now... then it will get that much worse.

 

[Chi84]

Am I really supposed to believe that this is mainly due to people holding private get-togethers?

Yes, the CDC has said from the start that is how the virus is primarily transmitted - prolonged (more than 15 minutes) close contact with an infected person, indoors being worse because of less ventilation.

 

[_caleb]

This has been more than “a couple months” of inconvenience. We’re about to enter month nine, with no definitive end date in sight. Most people I’ve seen in public have complied with wearing masks and social distancing. Yet the number of cases is still skyrocketing. Am I really supposed to believe that this is mainly due to people holding private get-togethers? The majority of people, including myself, are fed up with everything. We’ve followed the rules in place regarding mask-wearing and social distancing. We’ve cancelled all of our vacation plans this year. We can’t attend sporting events or concerts. There aren’t even any new worthwhile movies to attend. As the calendar is soon to roll to 2021, there is no relief on the horizon. We’re sick of this. We’re burnt out. When life for eight months (and counting) consists of going to work and virtually nothing else to look forward to, it’s hard to have patience.

The pandemic has been here for eight months. But few communities lasted more than a couple months of actually following the guidelines. President Trump started calling for us to “reopen our country” as early as May 3. The first states to issue “lockdown“ orders began on March 17.

The measures you’re taking—wearing masks, distancing, cancelling events—these are what good people do during a pandemic. And like the generations before us that endured World Wars, the Great Depression, and previous epidemics, we have to suck it up and keep going.

It is indeed tiresome. And stressful. And discouraging. But we can do it. And it really only works if we all stick together. Hang in there.

 

[_caleb]

The numbers keep climbing. People are dying. Yet we’re on here chatting with people who‘ve thought it appropriate to go to Disney World during a pandemic.

I don’t care if CMs are really good about asking people to wear their masks, or if Rise of the Resistance has been fitted with plexiglas dividers. It does not matter how safe you feel in the parks. Stay home. If you must go out, wear a mask, keep your distance, and then hurry home.

 

[FeelsSoGoodToBeBad]

I agree with this. And when we began moving out of the more restrictive phases, it was based on science/numbers, and was a very gradual process. Unfortunately, as you said, restrictions are not being followed. More restaurants in our small town are open for indoor dining than not. Some are distancing inside, some are not. I still do carryout, but I am trying to stick with those restaurants that are following guidelines and are not doing indoor dining.

Same here. One of our local restaurant owners was featured on a StL news station talking about how they are keeping indoor dining open, despite the fact that the current mitigations state dining indoors is verboten. To their credit, they are doing a decent job holding to capacity limits and distancing inside, but it is still against guidelines.

They were fined by the state police the day after the newscast.

 

[_caleb]

Same here. One of our local restaurant owners was featured on a StL news station talking about how they are keeping indoor dining open, despite the fact that the current mitigations state dining indoors is verboten. To their credit, they are doing a decent job holding to capacity limits and distancing inside, but it is still against guidelines.

They were fined by the state police the day after the newscast.

”We value money more than your health and safety”

 

[FeelsSoGoodToBeBad]

”We value money more than your health and safety”

Which is why the local bar, who used to tell employees to keep a mask in their pockets in case people came around inspecting, and who now has employees broadcasting on FB live while people are line dancing next to each other, people are sitting next to each other at the bar, hugging and rubbing elbows like they always have, and employees serving with nary a mask in sight will never see another of my (and many other residents') dollars.

Meanwhile, those same employees continue to whine and cry about how bars and restaurants are being unfairly singled out.

 

[Chi84]

The numbers keep climbing. People are dying. Yet we’re on here chatting with people who‘ve thought it appropriate to go to Disney World during a pandemic.

I don’t care if CMs are really good about asking people to wear their masks, or if Rise of the Resistance has been fitted with plexiglas dividers. It does not matter how safe you feel in the parks. Stay home. If you must go out, wear a mask, keep your distance, and then hurry home.

Maybe take a break from a Disney forum if it upsets you this much? You’ve made your point abundantly clear, but you can’t force everyone to agree with you and a lot of people who care enough to be on a Disney site are going to visit Disney and talk about it.

I can understand not liking that, but getting upset that people here are even talking to others who went to Disney recently seems unreasonable. Many come to this site to find out what’s going on in the parks and plan their vacations. That’s one of the main reasons for its existence.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The 90% is not Pfizer at all. They are blinded and have no idea whether people in the trial that got infected got the vaccine or the placebo. Once they hit the threshold number of positives (threshold was 53 but they actually had 94) then an independent board reviews the results of the trial and when they are done they let Pfizer know what the results were. The Pfizer CEO said he was called on Sunday and told the results which were released publicly on Monday. Moderna has said publicly that they have also reached the threshold of infections and that the independent board is reviewing their results so there’s a good chance we hear something any day now on the results. The 1 year estimate came from the CEO and founder of BioNTech who is Pfizer’s partner. He said in an interview that he thinks the vaccine will protect patients for a significant period of time and he personally believes it may be a year or longer. That’s an educated guess from someone who has more access than we do to the data, but it’s no lock to be true.

The next step is Pfizer needs to have 50% of their trial participants hit 2 months since their second injection before they can apply for emergency use authorization. That will happen next week. Once they apply it’s expected that the FDA will take several weeks to review before approval. Pfizer has said that they will be ready to start injecting people the day after they receive approval so assuming the safety data is all good (so far so good) that means the first patients stuck ore the end of 2020.

Good plan...I think it might be getting GREAT again in 2021...

As a 76ers fan I’m going to borrow their catch phrase...Trust the Process. This whole thing is probably the most transparent any pharmaceutical company has ever been with a clinical trial. It is critical that the public trusts that the vaccine is safe and effective. I heard the FDA said it would possibly take until Christmas to approve for emergency use. They aren’t just rubber stamping this thing. It’s fast compared to normal, but nothing is normal right now.

How’s that “process” been going? Embid have a “hurt finger” again today?

The next fight on this board... what if Disney requires proof of vaccination before allowing guests to enter the parks or stay at their resorts? How would they assure compliance? Would this change anyone's plans?

Please do...please, Disney. Let’s make people put their “entitlement” where their fat mouths are?

What you found convenient about the Walmart pick up, I found annoying. We had placed a total of 5 orders over a month period and not once did they have half of what we ordered in stock yet they don’t tell you that. You just get a email saying available for pickup. One time they substituted regular tea when my wife likes the sugar free stuff. We ended up not ever ordering again from them and returning most of the orders. But I can understand some liking substitutes.

Come on...Wally’s??

As we've seen with the election, though, transparency isn't enough to convince some people if their mind is already made up...

Well we don’t have to guess at who exactly is on the lower end of the “bell curve” of society anymore, do we??

We just need about 2/3 on board. Can’t please everyone and mental illness is a tricky thing to cure

Preach.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The numbers keep climbing. People are dying. Yet we’re on here chatting with people who‘ve thought it appropriate to go to Disney World during a pandemic.

I don’t care if CMs are really good about asking people to wear their masks, or if Rise of the Resistance has been fitted with plexiglas dividers. It does not matter how safe you feel in the parks. Stay home. If you must go out, wear a mask, keep your distance, and then hurry home.

I have to agree. And that doesn’t “please” me at all. More below.
Leisure Travel just isn’t appropriate to the rational mind at this point.

Maybe take a break from a Disney forum if it upsets you this much? You’ve made your point abundantly clear, but you can’t force everyone to agree with you and a lot of people who care enough to be on a Disney site are going to visit Disney and talk about it.

I can understand not liking that, but getting upset that people here are even talking to others who went to Disney recently seems unreasonable. Many come to this site to find out what’s going on in the parks and plan their vacations. That’s one of the main reasons for its existence.

The “individual mandates” have been at the cause of why we’re really in the now... (pardon, mon ami)

Didn’t your state rock about 11,000 cases today?

It’s a mess and Caleb is right...time for a little more “common pull” on the rope of society and some introspection.

Yes...I know it’s tired and it’s been a long year. I’m tired. But it isn’t time to trust the makers of Celebrex completely to save us all as we contact an official wdw online travel specialist.

Not yet.

 

[_caleb]

Maybe take a break from a Disney forum if it upsets you this much? You’ve made your point abundantly clear, but you can’t force everyone to agree with you and a lot of people who care enough to be on a Disney site are going to visit Disney and talk about it.

I can understand not liking that, but getting upset that people here are even talking to others who went to Disney recently seems unreasonable. Many come to this site to find out what’s going on in the parks and plan their vacations. That’s one of the main reasons for its existence.

Thanks for your concern. I don’t see how it’s unreasonable to suggest that people should not be going to a theme park while a highly communicable disease (spread though the air) ravages our country.

You seem like an intelligent and level-headed person. What part of this doesn’t upset you? That we set another record for the number of reported cases? One thousand preventable deaths each day? The ruined economy?

I’m not trying to force anyone to agree with me. But I am trying to convince people to think differently about how they might respond to the virus. We are all affected by the actions of others, and I want to see more people considering the wellbeing and safety of the people around them. Would you prefer I just keep my opinions to myself and wish everyone a magical time at the Magic Kingdom?

 

[oceanbreeze77]

I have to agree. And that doesn’t “please” me at all. More below.
Leisure Travel just isn’t appropriate to the rational mind at this point.

Thanks for your concern. I don’t see how it’s unreasonable to suggest that people should not be going to a theme park while a highly communicable disease (spread though the air) ravages our country.

This is the type of thought that may force disney and other places of entertainment to shutter again. IF, IF we get to the point, and its very likely, that 3000 people are dying in a day, people start dying in waiting rooms, as it seems to be happening in Italy, then how could these places stay open in good conscience?

 

[_caleb]

This is the type of thought that may force disney and other places of entertainment to shutter again. IF, IF we get to the point, and its very likely, that 3000 people are dying in a day, people start dying in waiting rooms, as it seems to be happening in Italy, then how could these places stay open in good conscience?

Right. So many have pushed back against the government closing things down. But what about business owners saying, “We just can’t keep people safe right now?” Or what about people taking responsibility and saying that despite the short lines, it’s just not a good time to go to Disney World?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Right. So many have pushed back against the government closing things down. But what about business owners saying, “We just can’t keep people safe right now?” Or what about people taking responsibility and saying that despite the short lines, it’s just not a good time to go to Disney World?

I’ll go one further...

Business needs customers. And unless your drivers license says “Bezos”...you’re in a bad position either now or if these yo-yo waves continue.

Does anyone want to run a store or a restaurant and have the customers scared back inside because collective stupidity is causing it to happen again and again??

This could have been handled. Now the weather turns and everyone has to go indoors...except few states are gonna be able to allow it. Word gets around, people stay away, more economy wreck will follow.

 

[Patcheslee]

I am glad my company has strong mask rules, you are required to ware a mask the entire time you are in the building unless eating or drinking, or are alone in an office with the door closed.

We still have to wear even when alone in an office, their reasoning is HVAC circulation.

Which is why the local bar, who used to tell employees to keep a mask in their pockets in case people came around inspecting, and who now has employees broadcasting on FB live while people are line dancing next to each other, people are sitting next to each other at the bar, hugging and rubbing elbows like they always have, and employees serving with nary a mask in sight will never see another of my (and many other residents') dollars.

Meanwhile, those same employees continue to whine and cry about how bars and restaurants are being unfairly singled out.

The local gas station requires masks but not even the employees are bothering to wear them. Yesterday the cashier was chatting with her friend who also wasn't wearing a mask about their previous weekend at the bar and making arrangements to meet up again this weekend. This isn't a single cashier, it's a majority of them including people making bakery items. They don't care at all.

 

[Lilofan]

I doubt WDW would do a ban but kudos to Delta and United for banning 550 (DL) and 350 (UA) passengers and putting these passengers on their no fly list for their refusal to wear a mask according to the New York Times.

 

[Patcheslee]

I doubt WDW would do a ban but kudos to Delta and United for banning 550 (DL) and 350 (UA) passengers and putting these passengers on their no fly list for their refusal to wear a mask according to the New York Times.

They wouldn't put minors on that list would they?

 

[DisneyCane]

Thanks for your concern. I don’t see how it’s unreasonable to suggest that people should not be going to a theme park while a highly communicable disease (spread though the air) ravages our country.

You seem like an intelligent and level-headed person. What part of this doesn’t upset you? That we set another record for the number of reported cases? One thousand preventable deaths each day? The ruined economy?

I’m not trying to force anyone to agree with me. But I am trying to convince people to think differently about how they might respond to the virus. We are all affected by the actions of others, and I want to see more people considering the wellbeing and safety of the people around them. Would you prefer I just keep my opinions to myself and wish everyone a magical time at the Magic Kingdom?

Because it isn't in the theme park or the compliant businesses around the theme park or the travel to the theme park that is causing most of the spread. Your opinion is basically "how can you do anything enjoyable while people are dying." You are entitled to your opinion, I just disagree with it strongly. Also, there are not 1000 preventable deaths per day. By saying that you are assuming that some type of action would get the cases down to near zero. Until there is a vaccine, that is impossible to accomplish without a several month complete and total lockdown of society.

This is the type of thought that may force disney and other places of entertainment to shutter again. IF, IF we get to the point, and its very likely, that 3000 people are dying in a day, people start dying in waiting rooms, as it seems to be happening in Italy, then how could these places stay open in good conscience?

Again, if the spread isn't happening at WDW on any large scale, why should they have it on their conscience. Again, it's the "how can you do anything enjoyable when people are dying" attitude. If there was significant spread traced to WDW being open, then it would become a moral decision for them.

Right. So many have pushed back against the government closing things down. But what about business owners saying, “We just can’t keep people safe right now?” Or what about people taking responsibility and saying that despite the short lines, it’s just not a good time to go to Disney World?

People in my area (which is very "blue" by the way) don't seem to be avoiding businesses in any significant way even though cases have increased in the last month. It isn't inside the businesses that the majority of spread is occurring, with the possible exception of bars that don't follow the social distancing rules. The health officials in Orange County have continually said that they don't see any major issues related to the theme parks and you can bet they are looking for them.

"The government" (in any country) can't "keep everybody safe" and have a functioning society. They are mutually exclusive goals. The best they can do without a vaccine is "flatten the curve" to keep hospitals from being overwhelmed with acceptable restrictions.

Everybody staying at home for a few months is not acceptable to the vast majority of people. As a human being, just existing isn't living.

Just as an aside, and I think I'm allowed to point this out now that Zeke Emanuel will be on the COVID task force next year, as of the latest report for Florida:

82% of COVID deaths were people 65 and over
61% of COVID deaths were people 75 and over (for Zeke's planning)
32% of COVID deaths were people 85 and over
40% of COVID deaths were nursing home residents

It is very clear who is most at risk from this disease. It isn't just an across the board plague. If somehow nobody over 64 contracted COVID (this is a hypothetical so please don't quote out of context to argue), it would be hard to notice that the virus existed. There is no need to "keep everybody safe."

 

[drizgirl]

Because it isn't in the theme park or the compliant businesses around the theme park or the travel to the theme park that is causing most of the spread. Your opinion is basically "how can you do anything enjoyable while people are dying." You are entitled to your opinion, I just disagree with it strongly. Also, there are not 1000 preventable deaths per day. By saying that you are assuming that some type of action would get the cases down to near zero. Until there is a vaccine, that is impossible to accomplish without a several month complete and total lockdown of society.



Again, if the spread isn't happening at WDW on any large scale, why should they have it on their conscience. Again, it's the "how can you do anything enjoyable when people are dying" attitude. If there was significant spread traced to WDW being open, then it would become a moral decision for them.



People in my area (which is very "blue" by the way) don't seem to be avoiding businesses in any significant way even though cases have increased in the last month. It isn't inside the businesses that the majority of spread is occurring, with the possible exception of bars that don't follow the social distancing rules. The health officials in Orange County have continually said that they don't see any major issues related to the theme parks and you can bet they are looking for them.

"The government" (in any country) can't "keep everybody safe" and have a functioning society. They are mutually exclusive goals. The best they can do without a vaccine is "flatten the curve" to keep hospitals from being overwhelmed with acceptable restrictions.

Everybody staying at home for a few months is not acceptable to the vast majority of people. As a human being, just existing isn't living.

Just as an aside, and I think I'm allowed to point this out now that Zeke Emanuel will be on the COVID task force next year, as of the latest report for Florida:

82% of COVID deaths were people 65 and over
61% of COVID deaths were people 75 and over (for Zeke's planning)
32% of COVID deaths were people 85 and over
40% of COVID deaths were nursing home residents

It is very clear who is most at risk from this disease. It isn't just an across the board plague. If somehow nobody over 64 contracted COVID (this is a hypothetical so please don't quote out of context to argue), it would be hard to notice that the virus existed. There is no need to "keep everybody safe."

Zeke Emanuel isn't one to want to spend a lot of resources on elderly people. I wonder how that meshes with trying to control a pandemic where most of the victims are old people.

At 63 himself, I wonder if his views have changed any over time.

 

[Touchdown]

You know what changes behavior? Expericing a bad outcome in a close loved one or friend, and I hate to say it but most Americans are about to experience one very soon, and it might not be Grandma or Grandpa it might be Uncle Bob, Mom, Dad, cousin Stu or even little Sally.

Hospitals are reaching capacity in the Midwest and Texas, it’s hard to fully appreciate how close we are because reports are based on how many empty beds we have but most hospitals have simply run out of nurses to staff them. When hospitals can’t admit anyone further then they need to start rationing care and not just on the Covid wards, everywhere. Cases are rising in all 50 states so without something changing it will spread to the whole country.

Imagine getting a call from the ER that your loved one has suffered a major heart attack, stroke, or trauma and being told you have two choices in care for that loved one, suboptimal care that will not include needed surgical interventions and are unlikely to keep then alive and if they did leave them with permanent disabilities or you can accept hospice care where we will ease their passing (and allow you to visit them one last time) by keeping them pain free. Unfortunately our algorithm and bed capacity have told us they are too sick and too much of a risk for our resources to be spent on them and need to be saved for someone we are sure we can.

This is coming, and may be happening in a matter of weeks in the parts of the Midwest and Texas which would mean it’s so close now nothing can stop it, the people who will experience this first already have Covid (it will be first felt there before spreading to other diagnoses.)

When it does, don’t blame the healthcare industry and workers; we’ve been telling you this for months this would happen but you couldn’t stop yourself and you put your faith in the wrong political leader and are very much about to learn a bitter economic lesson in supply and demand. Winter has come all ye grasshoppers and the anthill will not let you in.

On the plus side, vaccine compliance is going to be through the roof after this because as always Americans are really good at doing the right thing eventually, after we’ve exhausted every wrong option and have been personally burned by our stubbornness.

The vaccine news is wonderful, I spent all day yesterday booking hotel rooms starting in March (as always I’m an optimist) but folks it’s always darkest just before the dawn and this winter is going to be terrible. Prepare and take all precautions to avoid a hospitalizing illness as you may not be able to get care.