Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[DVCakaCarlF]

Nope. Not not how it works. Just like second hand smoke you don’t have the right to indirectly harm someone else’s health even if that restricts your right to do whatever you want. You may want to smoke a cigarette whenever you want but you can’t do it most places indoors anymore. They didn’t agree to a compromise where you can smoke and anyone who doesn’t want to inhale your second hand smoke can just stay home.

Not the same, and you know that. People choose to smoke; thus, creating second hand smoke.

No one chooses to spread covid.

And, just to consider your concept, make sure the same is applied to cold, flu, etc.

 

[GoofGoof]

Not the same, and you know that. People choose to smoke; thus, creating second hand smoke.

No one chooses to spread covid.

And, just to consider your concept, make sure the same is applied to cold, flu, etc.

If you choose to ignore safety protocols laid out by the government then you choose to spread Covid. Since there are no government imposed safety protocols around cold, flu and other sicknesses not related to a novel virus and worldwide pandemic the concept is exactly the same.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Not the same, and you know that. People choose to smoke; thus, creating second hand smoke.

No one chooses to spread covid.

And, just to consider your concept, make sure the same is applied to cold, flu, etc.

When were cold and flu the third leading cause of death?

 

[sullyinMT]

With Disney the only way they could definitely say someone got it there would be if they stayed a pretty long time. So if I check in and stay 14 days and get sick on my 15th day I can say I know I got sick there. This assumes you stay on property and don’t leave to eat, go to Universal or Sea World or anything like that. Since our friends from across the pond aren’t allowed back yet very few people are taking 2 week plus trips to WDW. It’s not going to be a large sample size to look at.

Sign me up for that challenge trial! 14 days “in the bubble,” meals, lodging, and tickets as trial compensation.

Not the same, and you know that. People choose to smoke; thus, creating second hand smoke.

No one chooses to spread covid.

And, just to consider your concept, make sure the same is applied to cold, flu, etc.

If you’re suggesting not following reasonable measures right now, with the rate of pre- and asymptomatic spread combined with current infection rates, many people would be choosing to spread COVID. Cold, flu, etc. are far more treatable, even with what we’ve learned in just under a year.
Maybe, hopefully, we can get to an endemic point with this virus. Then, we can do as you suggest. We simply aren’t there right now, so the public health good far outweighs anyone’s comfort and desire for x until we greatly improve survivability. And don’t play the tired % game.

 

[DVCakaCarlF]

If you choose to ignore safety protocols laid out by the government then you choose to spread Covid. Since there are no government imposed safety protocols around cold, flu and other sicknesses not related to a novel virus and worldwide pandemic the concept is exactly the same.

I’m saying your argument should be applied to both cold and four season, as well.

btw, just because it’s government mandated, doesn’t make it legal.

 

[DVCakaCarlF]

When were cold and flu the third leading cause of death?

I never said it was...and we all know 1/2 of the covid deaths are related to another existing condition.

 

[_caleb]

How can Disney prove that the guests or CMs contracted anything at the parks?
There are too many variables and I think it may be nearly impossible. Also, I am not sure with contact tracing that people are completely honest.
If someone says they had it while at the parks, they could have been infected prior to coming to the parks or maybe they went offsite for groceries or gas or something else.
If a CM gets tested positive, they could have easily received it outside the parks. Could a CM have gotten it within the park, sure, I will not dispute that, but there is also just as good of a chance they got it outside the park.

I do not know how one can pinpoint that disney is responsible for the positive.

If there was a specific special event and no one wore a mask, then yes, that could be something that disney could be directly responsible for.

You asked me why I was doubting what Disney was saying about transmission of the virus in the parks. I asked you what they’re saying. Have you seen any statements from Disney about exposure or infection in the parks?

There are certainly challenges to contact tracing—especially in populations that aren’t taking recommended precautions. If contact tracing is indeed being done (and there’s reason to doubt that it is), then someone would have a pretty good idea if Disney CMs are at greater, less, or about the same risk as anyone else. I would only hope that the someone would notify CMs (and their union representatives).

Contact tracing among guests would be even more difficult, though not impossible if Disney had any interest in helping. Magic Bands could be used to do this, as could the MDE app on mobile phones. It is very challenging (and costly and time consuming!) to keep people safe and informed during an outbreak of infectious disease. This is why most entertainment venues are closed.

I have a problem with those who (disingenuously) say, “Disney has proven that it’s possible to safely reopen!” when we don’t actually know how safe it is. I also have a problem with an uninformed public, who don’t have the information they need to know whether a trip to WDW puts them at greater risk, less risk, or about the same amount of risk as a trip to the grocery store. Many have said that the mask policy and plexiglass dividers have made them feel safe (“safer at Disney than anywhere else!”), but we just don’t know.

 

[DVCakaCarlF]

Sign me up for that challenge trial! 14 days “in the bubble,” meals, lodging, and tickets as trial compensation.



If you’re suggesting not following reasonable measures right now, with the rate of pre- and asymptomatic spread combined with current infection rates, many people would be choosing to spread COVID. Cold, flu, etc. are far more treatable, even with what we’ve learned in just under a year.
Maybe, hopefully, we can get to an endemic point with this virus. Then, we can do as you suggest. We simply aren’t there right now, so the public health good far outweighs anyone’s comfort and desire for x until we greatly improve survivability. And don’t play the tired % game.

When this all started, I said if it lasts longer than 90 days, it’s going to get out of hand.

I’m not waiting on the government or fauci to tell me when and what I can do.

thank God I live in SC.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I never said it was...and we all know 1/2 of the covid deaths are related to another existing condition.

Even if you magically make half of the deaths not count by whatever bullocks, that’s still more deaths than a very, very, very bad flu season. The restrictions don’t apply to cold and flu because cold and flu are not as severe. We could improve public health, education and productivity if we adopted masks and staying home for cold and flu.

 

[DVCakaCarlF]

Even if you magically make half of the deaths not count by whatever bullocks, that’s still more deaths than a very, very, very bad flu season. The restrictions don’t apply to cold and flu because cold and flu are not as severe. We could improve public health, education and productivity if we adopted masks and staying home for cold and flu.

And I agree if you are any kind of sick, you should stay home.

But it is unconstitutional to enforce a mandate, of any kind, without the consent of the governed.

 

[GoofGoof]

I’m saying your argument should be applied to both cold and four season, as well.

btw, just because it’s government mandated, doesn’t make it legal.

The second hand smoke laws are government mandated and perfectly legal. They prohibit a person’s ability to make their own choice and do what they want to do because of the risk their action poses to other people‘s health. It’s no different with Covid. The health risk from spreading cold or flu isn’t the same and I think you know that so I’m not going to bother with the “this is just the flu” debate.

A government mandate is legal until a court overturns it. So far that hasn’t happened for smoking or for Covid.

 

[lazyboy97o]

And I agree if you are any kind of sick, you should stay home.

But it is unconstitutional to enforce a mandate, of any kind, without the consent of the governed.

Lying for political expediency is the true enemy of republicanism.

 

[_caleb]

And I agree if you are any kind of sick, you should stay home.

But it is unconstitutional to enforce a mandate, of any kind, without the consent of the governed.

Asymptotic contagion means you don’t know if you’re “any kind of sick.”

 

[DVCakaCarlF]

The second hand smoke laws are government mandated and perfectly legal. They prohibit a person’s ability to make their own choice and do what they want to do because of the risk their action poses to other people‘s health. It’s no different with Covid. The health risk from spreading cold or flu isn’t the same and I think you know that so I’m not going to bother with the “this is just the flu” debate.

A government mandate is legal until a court overturns it. So far that hasn’t happened for smoking or for Covid.

I’m not comparing it to the flu.

Smoking is a choice, and its effects are directly associated WHEN it is deliberately chosen. I’m not disputing the effects of smoking.

My argument is that people can decide whether or not to enter or participate in an activity, subject to the risk of contracting covid.

 

[DVCakaCarlF]

Asymptotic contagion means you don’t know if you’re “any kind of sick.”

And if that’s the case, tell everyone to stay home for 2 years and come out later.

I’ll love to see how the current generation of kids can’t put a sentence together anymore than they can barely now.

 

[DVCakaCarlF]

Lying for political expediency is the true enemy of republicanism.

And how does that relate, because I’m not lying.

 

[_caleb]

And if that’s the case, tell everyone to stay home for 2 years and come out later.

I’ll love to see how the current generation of kids can’t put a sentence together anymore than they can barely now.

”If that’s the case?” Does that mean you don’t believe that people who don’t show symptoms can transmit the virus?

I’m not sure what your second sentence means.

 

[lazyboy97o]

And how does that relate, because I’m not lying.

You are when you make bunk claims about deaths not really being due to COVID-19.

 

[sullyinMT]

You asked me why I was doubting what Disney was saying about transmission of the virus in the parks. I asked you what they’re saying. Have you seen any statements from Disney about exposure or infection in the parks?

There are certainly challenges to contact tracing—especially in populations that aren’t taking recommended precautions. If contact tracing is indeed being done (and there’s reason to doubt that it is), then someone would have a pretty good idea if Disney CMs are at greater, less, or about the same risk as anyone else. I would only hope that the someone would notify CMs (and their union representatives).

Contact tracing among guests would be even more difficult, though not impossible if Disney had any interest in helping. Magic Bands could be used to do this, as could the MDE app on mobile phones. It is very challenging (and costly and time consuming!) to keep people safe and informed during an outbreak of infectious disease. This is why most entertainment venues are closed.

I have a problem with those who (disingenuously) say, “Disney has proven that it’s possible to safely reopen!” when we don’t actually know how safe it is. I also have a problem with an uninformed public, who don’t have the information they need to know whether a trip to WDW puts them at greater risk, less risk, or about the same amount of risk as a trip to the grocery store. Many have said that the mask policy and plexiglass dividers have made them feel safe (“safer at Disney than anywhere else!”), but we just don’t know.

You’re right that we don’t know one way or the other. We can look at the area WDW operates in and make a best guess (though the Orlando Halloween photos might skew that in a couple weeks).
I personally feel safer in any establishment that actually enforces their protocols. Whether or not that’s warranted, I can’t actually know for sure. But if I were given a choice between spending a weekend, 8 hours a day in even a well ventilated Wal Mart or WDW, I can undoubtedly say that WDW will more forcefully follow their own protocols. That makes me feel safer there than my local Wal Mart.

 

[Chi84]

And I agree if you are any kind of sick, you should stay home.

But it is unconstitutional to enforce a mandate, of any kind, without the consent of the governed.

The thing is that we elect the government. So mandates are enacted with the consent of the governed.