SamusAranX
Well-Known Member
If Pluto got defenestrated from planetary status, then Australia should likewise from continent-hood. I said what I said
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Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion
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GoofGoof
Premium Member
I don’t disagree with any of that.
What I’m saying is the shutdowns were not intended to eradicate the virus and make it go away. The whole point was supposed to be to slow community spread to the point that testing and tracing could keep outbreaks from occurring and we could re-open a large portion of the economy safely. The virus will be with us but that doesn’t mean we can’t reduce spread, save lives and get more of the economy open safely.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
1. Sweet Jesus, how did anyone not know? (That question will go unresolved and stick with me till my grave)
2. On the plus...your opinion/experience is far from alone...and right now the response is being registered...everywhere
LaughingGravy
Well-Known Member
The reckless endangerment is not limited to those who have symptoms or those who know they are infected.
Where does the 99% chance that they are not infected and contagious come from?
As for your quote about the meaning of the word life, why not finish it from your source instead of taking the one paragraph you quoted without reference, essentially out of context without including the two paragraphs below?
"That said, government sources takes many actions that impact the full exercise of individuals’ quality of life, including through the use of policies to affect poverty levels, health care, physical security, and individual dignity.
Here are some current events and philosophical outlooks about the path that governments must tread in order to provide individuals the greatest opportunity and probability of exercising their most natural right — existence."
'Life' in the Declaration of Independence
www.thepursuitofhappiness.com › lifeUntil we can all be tested daily on the cheap via home test without it needing to be sent out or need to go anywhere to do the test, including folks without health insurance and the unemployed, we deal with the undisputed (unless one is total idiot) fact that there are asymptomatic carriers who are also transmitters.
The number of those Typhoid Marys may be high, or it may be low. And that can also change.
I could test negative today, pick it up tomorrow, not know it, and spread it, and there lies the problem, unless I can test. Add to that the incubation period where I may have it, but not test positive for it depending on how far it is through my system and that's just for being asymptomatic. We have two people in our house who leave to go to work. One is two days per week, the other is five.
As for the masks, for them to be effective, they need to be worn properly by all and they also need to be multi-layered and properly fitting, not single layer novelty masks. I was in the supermarket a couple of weeks ago and a customer was wearing a cheap mask with nose clearly sticking out while in the store, but in the outer lobby, technically still inside the store on the way out, he pulled it off even though people were clearly nearby.
We are at the point now where shopping carts are not always cleaned between customers, depending on the store and even then it's just the handles, so it's up to us individually to make sure things are sanitized before using anything in public.
Yes, people are tired of this, but until there is a vaccine AND a large percentage of people take it, also keeping good habits the whole time until there is a successful vaccine implemented (which are two other discussions), we will be at this for a while.
I see the drop in good habits and more people walking around without their noses covered by the masks as a clear "statement".
Ignorance and misplaced attitudes by those and their silent statement like that are not helping.
I see immediate neighbors next door and across the street having large 10+ gatherings with no distancing and no masks ( limit in a home in NJ is currently 25) , while they kept the good habits back in April, but have since dropped them.
Those folks, I am reasonably sure, go to other similar gatherings which I don't see.
It's going to be a long while more without all those things in place.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
It’s a fair point. If I lived in Central America or the Middle East I’d be pretty annoyed that Australia gets to be its own continent while we just get lumped in with a bunch of other random people....and don’t get me started on AntarcticaIf Pluto got defenestrated from planetary status, then Australia should likewise from continent-hood. I said what I said
DisneyDebRob
Well-Known Member
“You are just stating left wing talking points. How about some proof of his sexism. Anti-science because of pulling out of the Paris accord?” Quote from Disneycane
From the Union of concerned scientists.
you also asked about how he is racist but that doesn’t come under this thread. There are many sites for that with his quotes. But science fits for this thread.
From the Union of concerned scientists.
150 Attacks on Science and Counting: Trump Administration’s Anti-Science Actions Hurt People and Communities Nationwide
Suppressed studies. Muzzled scientists. Disbanded scientific advisory committees. These are some examples of the gross violations of scientific integrity that the Trump administration has carried out during its 3½ years in power. At the Union of Concerned Scientists, we have been tracking these atta
blog.ucsusa.org
you also asked about how he is racist but that doesn’t come under this thread. There are many sites for that with his quotes. But science fits for this thread.
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Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
The reckless endangerment is not limited to those who have symptoms or those who know they are infected.
Where does the 99% chance that they are not infected and contagious come from?
As for your quote about the meaning of the word life, why not finish it from your source instead of taking it out of context?
"That said, government sources takes many actions that impact the full exercise of individuals’ quality of life, including through the use of policies to affect poverty levels, health care, physical security, and individual dignity.
Here are some current events and philosophical outlooks about the path that governments must tread in order to provide individuals the greatest opportunity and probability of exercising their most natural right — existence."
'Life' in the Declaration of Independence
www.thepursuitofhappiness.com › life
Until we can all be tested daily on the cheap via home test without it needing to be sent out or need to go anywhere to do the test, including folks without health insurance and the unemployed, we deal with the undisputed (unless one is total idiot) fact that there are asymptomatic carriers who are also transmitters.
The number of those Typhoid Marys may be high, or they may be low.
I could test negative today, pick it up tomorrow, not know it, and spread it, and there lies the problem, unless I can test. Add to that the incubation period where I may have it, but not test positive for it depending on how far it is through my system and that's just for being asymptomatic. We have two people in our house who leave to go to work. One is two days per week, the other is five.
As for the masks, for them to be effective, they need to be worn properly by all and they also need to be multi-layered and properly fitting, not single layer novelty masks. I was in the supermarket a couple of weeks ago and a customer was wearing a cheap mask with nose clearly sticking out while in the store, but in the outer lobby, technically still inside the store on the way out, he pulled it off even though people were clearly nearby.
We are at the point now where shopping carts are not always cleaned between customers, depending on the store and even then it's just the handles, so it's up to us individually to make sure things are sanitized before using anything in public.
Yes, people are tired of this, but until there is a vaccine AND a large percentage of people take it, also keeping good habits the whole time until there is a successful vaccine implemented (which are two other discussions), we will be at this for a while.
I see the drop in good habits and more people walking around without their noses covered by the masks as a clear "statement".
Ignorance and misplaced attitudes by those and their silent statement like that are not helping.
I see immediate neighbors next door and across the street having large 10+ gatherings with no distancing and no masks ( limit in a home in NJ is currently 25) , while they kept the good habits back in April, but have since dropped them.
Those folks, I am reasonably sure, go to other similar gatherings which I don't see.
It's going to be a long while more without all those things in place.
Today’s obvious winner on this god awful carousel of a thread
bdearl41
Well-Known Member
Absolutely. And I 100% agree. My issue is the statement “the virus has to run its course” is viewed as an anti shutdown sentiment. It’s a reality check that regardless of which side of the argument one takes. Chill the F out and look at facts. Neither side has the answer and won’t have it. At some point this will be over but for now let’s try and save lives through mitigation but also not eliminate everything that sustains life too (cancer prescreenings, elective surgery, economic productions, etc). Whether you like Trump or not he is right. We have to live with the virus for the time being. Now certainly we should protect ourselves more than he eludes but the concept of a shutdown being the end all be all like so many want and think does nothing to get us past the virus. Sorry. This is not aimed at you goof, but instead this board. Everyone needs to understand their isn’t a winning side of this argument. Both are right in ways both are wrong in ways. But to think we can have power of nature or a higher being based on your belief is a foolish endeavor.
oceanbreeze77
Well-Known Member
At what level of this current wave we are in do you think WDW will close again?
Tha Realest
Well-Known Member
I'm been posting here for a little bit since the pandemic hit. My family and I visited WDW a lot in my youth (and once, DL) but by college and young adulthood had kind of moved on from it. Or so I thought. I came back and did a marathon there in my late 20's, met my wife soon thereafter, and we had kids, and, lo and behold, look how my interests have come full circle.
As my username suggests, I have fond nostalgic memories for a Park that in many ways no longer exists. I was a little disappointed with the anticipated changes to Spaceship Earth, the IP-ification of certain rides, and allowing JII to languish. I am not as caught up with the sorts of shows and parades as most, but some things I experienced recently has made me fearful for the future of the Disney Parks.
Put simply, I'm worried the Parks we've come to love will no longer exist as they once did.
It's clearly a corporate imperative to cut employees and personnel. Iger said they wanted a leaner company. They have dreams of becoming a quasi-tech company, consistent with Iger's clear desire to be viewed as a co-equal (or successor) to Steve Jobs. Tech companies value efficiency and processes.
Some Cast Members *may* be easily replaceable. Performers are not. They are now cutting them across the board. How many will return? Again, as one that doesn't typically stop and watch street performers or the shows, I felt like this wouldn't necessarily affect me. But is that true? I have had two experiences recently that suggest that is not the case.
1) Galaxy's Edge. Wonderful, top notch theming. But it feels cold and heartless, like walking through European ruins of a long-lost civilization. It's dead. And it's dead because, by most accounts, the "streetmosphere" planned was cut from the budget and never arrived. Again, wonderfully themed and realized "world." But having front line Cast Members working in stores as your "performeers" hasn't worked. It was clearly a budgetary decision, but it shows the seams.
2) Ditto World Showcase. Again, wonderfully realized countries. It's my favorite park. And all of the international Cast Members and cultural representatives are gone; many of the stores are closed. You felt a palpable connection to the represented country. I went back in September, and it felt like I was walking through the Forum in Rome.
What does this bode for the future? Well, they are getting by now, to an extent, without these performers. It'll be a year (or two, or three) until the parks reach some sort of return. How eager are those divisions going to be to authorize those new costs and expenses? I don't know, but the "leaner" imperative and the "we want to be a tech company" obsession makes me fear that the parks as we know it will no longer exist.
As my username suggests, I have fond nostalgic memories for a Park that in many ways no longer exists. I was a little disappointed with the anticipated changes to Spaceship Earth, the IP-ification of certain rides, and allowing JII to languish. I am not as caught up with the sorts of shows and parades as most, but some things I experienced recently has made me fearful for the future of the Disney Parks.
Put simply, I'm worried the Parks we've come to love will no longer exist as they once did.
It's clearly a corporate imperative to cut employees and personnel. Iger said they wanted a leaner company. They have dreams of becoming a quasi-tech company, consistent with Iger's clear desire to be viewed as a co-equal (or successor) to Steve Jobs. Tech companies value efficiency and processes.
Some Cast Members *may* be easily replaceable. Performers are not. They are now cutting them across the board. How many will return? Again, as one that doesn't typically stop and watch street performers or the shows, I felt like this wouldn't necessarily affect me. But is that true? I have had two experiences recently that suggest that is not the case.
1) Galaxy's Edge. Wonderful, top notch theming. But it feels cold and heartless, like walking through European ruins of a long-lost civilization. It's dead. And it's dead because, by most accounts, the "streetmosphere" planned was cut from the budget and never arrived. Again, wonderfully themed and realized "world." But having front line Cast Members working in stores as your "performeers" hasn't worked. It was clearly a budgetary decision, but it shows the seams.
2) Ditto World Showcase. Again, wonderfully realized countries. It's my favorite park. And all of the international Cast Members and cultural representatives are gone; many of the stores are closed. You felt a palpable connection to the represented country. I went back in September, and it felt like I was walking through the Forum in Rome.
What does this bode for the future? Well, they are getting by now, to an extent, without these performers. It'll be a year (or two, or three) until the parks reach some sort of return. How eager are those divisions going to be to authorize those new costs and expenses? I don't know, but the "leaner" imperative and the "we want to be a tech company" obsession makes me fear that the parks as we know it will no longer exist.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
“The virus has to run it’s course” is one of the top anti-restrictions talking points. I understand you may not be saying it that way but it is one of the top reasons given why restrictions should be lifted and is why people (me included) were assuming that’s what you mean. As I said, I agree with people that we have to learn to live with the virus because it isn’t going to just vanish, but that doesn’t mean remove all restrictions and just let it rip. IMHO learning to live with the virus is keeping smart and relatively simple restrictions in place. Wear a mask whenever in public, practice social distancing, avoid large group gatherings (especially indoors and even in private residences), limit indoor dining and places where distancing and/or masks cannot be practiced, practice a higher level of hygiene and if you are sick or suspect you came in contact with someone positive get tested and cooperate with contact tracing efforts to help reduce the spread. Life won’t be back to normal, but if we all did all of these things the vast majority of our economy would be open and we would have less sick people, less hospitalizations and less deaths. Wins across the board with a little bit of sacrificing getting to do exactly what we want.
On the economic front certain businesses cannot remain profitable under these circumstances and workers are kept out of work. The federal government needs to step up with a better bail out package. We should never have to say bars need to be open without restrictions despite the public health risk because they will go bankrupt and people will starve. Instead of focusing on this our government (all of these fools) had a peeing contest over a Supreme Court justice and then went on vacation. Priorities are really, really messed up.
One final point, I agree 100% there’s no magic bullet and no winning strategy, nothing is going to be easy. The best we can do is take actions that help to reduce the spread as much as possible and make sure the economy stays functional and those who can’t work are taken care of. The only possible way to defeat the virus quickly is a really effective vaccine. We don’t know if any of the leading candidates will be safe and/or effective but if one or more hit the market and enough people are willing to take it if it’s highly effective the virus could be effectively snuffed out. Probably not eradicated with zero cases but community spread reduced enough that any outbreaks that pop up can be contained and snuffed out. When I say quickly, a vaccine will still take months to roll out to everyone who wants it, but that’s quick compared to the potential years it would take to build up natural immunities.
oceanbreeze77
Well-Known Member
Based on the last few days, it looks like the positivity is going to continue to climb. Holding steady now around 5%, before it was holding steady around 4%.
Chi84
Premium Member
People crave certainty and control, and this virus is incompatible with both of those things. With respect to "control," you're on a WDW planning site where people have been trained to map out every detail of their vacations years in advance, so your audience probably doesn't include the "let's give it time and see what happens" crowd. They'll admit to not knowing what will happen, then say "sorry to tell you this, but [insert whatever]" is going to happen.
I support all the current restrictions, including mask-wearing, and don't agree with those advocating herd immunity, but I've still been the subject of (a) through (c) (possibly (d) too and I didn't understand it) because I've suggested that requiring people to wear masks in public is not the cure people want it to be. In Illinois, we have had a mask mandate since the beginning of May and from what I see people are complying with it. Nevertheless, we had a major spike in July and another is taking place now.
From what I have been hearing, the major spread is occurring because people are starting to ignore the advice to stay away from each other and have started gathering in restaurants and homes. The governor has just reinstated a ban on indoor dining, which the restaurants vehemently oppose. Their point is that if people are gathering in public, their behavior can be monitored and regulated - closing the restaurants just leads to people gathering in homes, where they are almost certainly not following COVID precautions. We need to find an effective message - some way to reach these people - if it's at all possible.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Those numbers suck...and I heard a story of how Florida is allegedly actively discouraging/limiting testing this morning...but it isn’t corroborated at this point...
Something to pay attention to though.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Just theorizing...but if things get pretty bad and travel dips again...they may close some hotels and/or parks and let the locals play on while they can still breath.
I don’t see a full closure...Florida won’t do it and Disney tied themselves to them...which I bet they regret.
I'll let everyone know to stop talking about "American exceptionalism" because you really can't compare countries to one another -- they're just so different! Without comparisons, none can be 'exceptional.'
DisneyDebRob
Well-Known Member
Another well written article on herd immunity. The more studies.. the more I hear epidemiologists talk about it’s not the way to go, the more I think it shouldn’t even be brought up. It’s a very fine read.
Herding People to Slaughter: The Dangerous Fringe Theory behind the Great Barrington Declaration and Push toward Herd Immunity
Officials at the highest levels are discussing the possibility of caving in on controlling the coronavirus and instead letting it run rampant throughout the United States until we reach “herd immunity,” the point where the virus runs out of people to infect. More than 6,200 scientists, health profes
blog.ucsusa.org
SamusAranX
Well-Known Member
I don't see Disney as having regret as they just recently announced extended hours for certain holiday days coming up.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
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