Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Touchdown]

Did London quarantine the rats and/or the fleas, or just the people and leave the vectors of the sickness to freely range over the city for years until the great fire?

Psst, they didn’t know how the disease was spread at that time. We’ve been given the gift of knowing this time around; that comes with the responsibility to do better then our ancestors.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Psst, they didn’t know how the disease was spread at that time. We’ve been given the gift of knowing this time around; that comes with the responsibility to do better then our ancestors.

They couldn’t do contact tracing via text to smart phones in 1919 either...but breaking news is they CAN now!!

I know...just found out and that floored me

 

[DisneyCane]

No. It was because of the worst response you could possibly have to this virus from any administration is why it’s so high. When you have so much incompetence it makes people angry.

No, it makes people who hate Trump angry. What was incompetent? The CDC's test and handling of testing at the beginning? The people there who are responsible for it don't change when administrations change. Ventilators? Not a single patient ever didn't have access to a ventilator. PPE shortages? The cupboard was bare and much of the difficulty was the fact that China makes so much of it. Not ordering a national lockdown? Can't be done without declaring martial law. I bet you would have been very in favor of Trump declaring martial law.

 

[GoofGoof]

I think that’s the point worth examining. The goal is to mitigate spread. Eliminating spread was and is never going to happen until the virus evolves. A vaccine won’t eliminate a rapidly evolving SARS virus. It’s gotta run it’s course. That’s the point. On the same token though the idea of eliminating all cases won’t do the trick either. It’s part of nature. See New Zealand. No cases for like a month then they had an outbreak. My point has never been one of not taking precautions, but instead one of tempered expectations and limiting blame.

I‘ll say it again, this isn’t a black and white problem. Pointing to other places and saying “see, they had an outbreak, that means the virus will just run its course and we shouldn’t do anything” is flawed logic. As you started out saying here the goal is to reduce spread not eradicate the virus forever. Too many people focus on the fact that the virus still exists and try to draw the conclusion that mitigating efforts didn’t work, that includes the governor of FL who stated in Sept that restrictions on restaurants don’t work because Miami limited restaurants and the virus still spread there.

You brought up New Zealand (which triggers the Covid denier crowd) but it should be held up as an example of exactly how to handle things. They locked down, reduced the virus to a level it could easily be traced and then got as far as zero cases for a period of several months, then they had some additional cases and immediately pivoted to further restrictions to contain an outbreak. This is exactly what the plan should be, and their economy is wide open. During the 100 days of zero cases they had bars open, fans in the stands for sports and other activities prohibited here. They did pivot to close some of that down temporarily, but that should always be the plan. Reduce infection, open the economy and pull back when there is a spike. Instead, in the US, any attempt to pull back is met with people railing about freedom and the economy and various political talking points. It’s hurting us from a public health standpoint but also economically.

 

[GoofGoof]

No, it makes people who hate Trump angry. What was incompetent? The CDC's test and handling of testing at the beginning? The people there who are responsible for it don't change when administrations change. Ventilators? Not a single patient ever didn't have access to a ventilator. PPE shortages? The cupboard was bare and much of the difficulty was the fact that China makes so much of it. Not ordering a national lockdown? Can't be done without declaring martial law. I bet you would have been very in favor of Trump declaring martial law.

If you are happy with the government response to Covid then I think that pretty much says it all.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

If you are happy with the government response to Covid then I think that pretty much says it all.

Just don’t get why everyone didn’t follow one term ron’s Lead?....he had it figured out in April. Everyone knew that...

 

[DisneyDebRob]

No, it makes people who hate Trump angry. What was incompetent? The CDC's test and handling of testing at the beginning? The people there who are responsible for it don't change when administrations change. Ventilators? Not a single patient ever didn't have access to a ventilator. PPE shortages? The cupboard was bare and much of the difficulty was the fact that China makes so much of it. Not ordering a national lockdown? Can't be done without declaring martial law. I bet you would have been very in favor of Trump declaring martial law.

These are why.. incompetence.

A leaked CDC document put the US as the worst of 10 countries trying to fight major coronavirus outbreaks

The US recorded a 36.5% rise in new cases between June 6 and June 9, according to the document obtained by Yahoo News. All 50 states are reopening.

www.google.com

U.S. Image Plummets Internationally as Most Say Country Has Handled Coronavirus Badly

In several countries, favorable views of the U.S. are at their lowest point since the Center began polling on this topic two decades ago.

www.pewresearch.org

I can sit here all day and post why we did the worst or very close to it. No excuse for the US.

 

[MaryJaneP]

It is political everywhere. The issue in the US is that our political climate has been a tinder box since the "hanging chads" in the 2000 election. There is no reasoned political discussion on any issue. The fact that opponents had branded Trump as evil incarnate and his supporters as scum of the earth morons before COVID is the reason why the intensity of the political aspects of COVID are so much higher here.

If "magic masks" work then why are there restrictions on capacities and gatherings? Why can't everybody just wear a "magic mask" and go on with life? The answer is that they don't "work." They may do something and have some effect in some situations but they don't "work" from the standpoint of preventing significant spread.

Sure there is science that can show them catching a percentage of droplets or reducing the distance they travel. However, that will only have a highly significant effect on somebody coughing and/or sneezing. Aerosols won't be reduced at all by a cloth face covering. If continuous spew of tiny droplets from talking and breathing are a significant contributor to the spread, the face covering isn't going to stop nearly enough of the droplets to make a big difference in the situations that are ripe for spread.

Hate to be the one to tell you this, but a magic vaccine, by itself, may not 100% "work", as you appear to have reworked the meaning of work. Masks have always been a part of a multiple set of strategies that if all are followed, may significantly hinder further spread. There has always been the problem of people refusing to wear masks, improperly wearing their masks, wearing something that does not serve the purposes of a mask, etc. Not even to mention those who refuse to use the other strategies (i.e. some refuse to keep socially distant, some refuse to wash their hands although this may be a holdover of their refusal to ever wash their hands, even before the pandmic). Maybe WDW could sponsor a "Maskless Day" (like other special days) and see if they could get CM's to sign up for shifts.

 

[JoeCamel]

Just don’t get why everyone didn’t follow one term ron’s Lead?....he had it figured out in April. Everyone knew that...

I thought it was Dr. Ron?

 

[Slpy3270]

With Disneyland Paris shuttering for the rest of Q1 2021 it's safe to say that a quarterly loss for that period is inevitable, undoing all the recovery efforts Disney has been trying to implement.

 

[DisneyCane]

If you are happy with the government response to Covid then I think that pretty much says it all.

My unhappiness is for a very different reason than yours. I wish they had done less. If this wasn't an election year, Trump would have gone with his instinct and not encouraged states to shut down the economy. There would have been social distancing but businesses wouldn't have been forced to close.

Just don’t get why everyone didn’t follow one term ron’s Lead?....he had it figured out in April. Everyone knew that...

He is doing what I would do if I were the Governor. Focus on protecting the elderly and those in nursing homes and let everybody else make their own darn choices.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I thought it was Dr. Ron?

Yep...back of rolling stone magazine. With a consult from dr. Pence

 

[ImperfectPixie]

My unhappiness is for a very different reason than yours. I wish they had done less. If this wasn't an election year, Trump would have gone with his instinct and not encouraged states to shut down the economy. There would have been social distancing but businesses wouldn't have been forced to close.

He is doing what I would do if I were the Governor. Focus on protecting the elderly and those in nursing homes and let everybody else make their own darn choices.

Gotcha. You're a "herd immunity" supporter. You do realize that will kill the economy more than any other steps taken and that the death count in human lives will skyrocket...

You need PEOPLE ALIVE for the economy to work.

 

[GoofGoof]

My unhappiness is for a very different reason than yours. I wish they had done less. If this wasn't an election year, Trump would have gone with his instinct and not encouraged states to shut down the economy. There would have been social distancing but businesses wouldn't have been forced to close.

He is doing what I would do if I were the Governor. Focus on protecting the elderly and those in nursing homes and let everybody else make their own darn choices.

If Trump really went against his gut just to try to win re-election that’s even worse than just picking a bad path.

I can’t do the isolate the high risk thing again, it isn’t possible and is an economic disaster. Nothing more to say on that.

 

[DisneyCane]

Hate to be the one to tell you this, but a magic vaccine, by itself, may not 100% "work", as you appear to have reworked the meaning of work. Masks have always been a part of a multiple set of strategies that if all are followed, may significantly hinder further spread. There has always been the problem of people refusing to wear masks, improperly wearing their masks, wearing something that does not serve the purposes of a mask, etc. Not even to mention those who refuse to use the other strategies (i.e. some refuse to keep socially distant, some refuse to wash their hands although this may be a holdover of their refusal to ever wash their hands, even before the pandmic). Maybe WDW could sponsor a "Maskless Day" (like other special days) and see if they could get CM's to sign up for shifts.

I don't expect a vaccine to magically work. I have stated (probably 1000 pages back) that with the expected level of effectiveness and the percentage of people who will take it, the virus will not be eradicated by a vaccine. That's why I posed the question way back (I think to @GoofGoof asking if we are to continue the mitigation measures in perpetuity.

You wouldn't get many CMs wanting to work on maskless day because they have been led to believe that it would put them at a much higher risk than they are now. I mean look at how many are wearing face shields even though that just protects them from somebody sneezing or coughing in their face.

I don't have an issue if a business like WDW wants to require masks. I think that requiring them outdoors is unnecessary but they can require what they want.

 

[Touchdown]

I really don’t see how anyone can be happy with our response, when adjusted for population we have the 10th highest death rate in the world. While I recognize the data coming out of some countries may be incomplete, when we look at our peers (Canada and major countries of Europe and Oceania) we have done worse then all of them with the exception of Spain and Belgium. (From worldometer)

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Your reply makes my point. Very little is "science" in this discussion. Masks and 6' distancing are best guesses and hypotheses. An just like I'm not convinced that cloth face coverings really do much, people on the "need to do everything possible side" keep putting out studies on how 6' distancing isn't enough. It is also selfish to impose restrictions on people who have less than a 1% chance of currently being infected in order to protect yourself.

You are wrong that nobody wants another shut down. The fact that they are starting to happen in Europe means that they do. They can excuse them as being "necessary" but that doesn't mean they don't want them. If they didn't want them they wouldn't happen.

The first sentence of your last paragraph illustrates how political this is and how you just have a 180 degree different philosophy than I do. By saying it that way, it's as if I agreed to this guidance or that the guidance doesn't involve the government taking away freedoms involuntarily. All Captain Hide in the Basement would have done differently is kept the lockdowns going for longer which I think is moronic. As can be seen in Europe, the countries that did everything "right" in your eyes are seeing a resurgence. We can't stay locked down indefinitely which is the only thing that would "work."

I didn't hate him until I started watching the daily updates and seeing what a truly horrible person and leader he is.

 

[DisneyCane]

Gotcha. You're a "herd immunity" supporter. You do realize that will kill the economy more than any other steps taken and that the death count in human lives will skyrocket...

You need PEOPLE ALIVE for the economy to work.

You can have social distancing and target protecting the most vulnerable without forcing business closures. If it wasn't for the prospect of a relatively effective vaccine in much less time than normal then I would support "herd immunity" with no mitigation at all. I can support some mitigation because a vaccine may be available in a few more months. With a normal vaccine timeline, I would have said we can't "mitigate" for 4 or 5 years or longer so just let nature take its course as it did with all prior similar pandemics.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I really don’t see how anyone can be happy with our response, when adjusted for population we have the 10th highest death rate in the world. While I recognize the data coming out of some countries may be incomplete, when we look at our peers (Canada and major countries of Europe and Oceania) we have done worse then all of them with the exception of Spain and Belgium. (From worldometer)

View attachment 509122

Nobody with a valid opinion is happy with that. Thankfully there are decreasingly few who will try to sell that “el Camino” class garbage anymore

 

[ImperfectPixie]

You can have social distancing and target protecting the most vulnerable without forcing business closures. If it wasn't for the prospect of a relatively effective vaccine in much less time than normal then I would support "herd immunity" with no mitigation at all. I can support some mitigation because a vaccine may be available in a few more months. With a normal vaccine timeline, I would have said we can't "mitigate" for 4 or 5 years or longer so just let nature take its course as it did with all prior similar pandemics.

Are you covering your eyes when you "read" my responses? NO ONE wants businesses to be forced to close! That's why MASKS, SOCIAL DISTANCING, AND LIMITING GATHERINGS is so freaking important!!!