Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Chip Chipperson]

All you have to do is follow the money. Hospitals are being reimbursed more for COVID patients and deaths. That gives them incentive to list COVID as a cause of death when they otherwise wouldn't. I have many friends in NJ who work for hospitals and this instruction was given to them. So there is a valid point here to consider.

Now, how many of the deaths would have been attributed to COVID without the financial incentive may be close to the actual numbers but it would be hard to figure this it after the fact. Whenever there is a financial incentive to do something it will be done.

So, in summary there are definitely doctors/hospitals, all over the US, that are listing deaths at COVID related that are not due to COVID in order to get a higher reimbursement. The actual number is just too difficult to determine and that is bad since we really should have accurate numbers for this virus. And yes, I'm sure this happens with other deaths from other causes as well all over the US.

Unless those doctors and nurses are murdering their patients by the hundreds of thousands all across the country (they're not) then there is no other explanation for the CDC's excess death table showing excess deaths starting in late-March of this year and continuing throughout the rest of the year other than COVID-19. We're talking 6 months of deaths consistently well above expectations each week.

Excess Deaths Associated with COVID-19

Figures present excess deaths associated with COVID-19 at the national and state levels.

www.cdc.gov

 

[Communicora]

All you have to do is follow the money. Hospitals are being reimbursed more for COVID patients and deaths. That gives them incentive to list COVID as a cause of death when they otherwise wouldn't. I have many friends in NJ who work for hospitals and this instruction was given to them. So there is a valid point here to consider.

Now, how many of the deaths would have been attributed to COVID without the financial incentive may be close to the actual numbers but it would be hard to figure this it after the fact. Whenever there is a financial incentive to do something it will be done.

So, in summary there are definitely doctors/hospitals, all over the US, that are listing deaths at COVID related that are not due to COVID in order to get a higher reimbursement. The actual number is just too difficult to determine and that is bad since we really should have accurate numbers for this virus. And yes, I'm sure this happens with other deaths from other causes as well all over the US.

Put up or shut up with a valid source that says hospitals and physicians are lying about causes of death. This conspiracy has been debunked over and over.

 

[oceanbreeze77]

This is a large reason why we are in this mess.

 

[oceanbreeze77]

....Anyways....

This should be of concern to Americans. Y'all stay safe out there.

 

[zurj]

So your friends in NJ who falsely classified Covid patients and deaths were personally compensated for doing it? They got envelopes filled with cash or something? I know a number of people who work in hospitals as both doctors and nurses and I don’t think any of them would intentionally commit fraud to help their hospital make more money. It seems very far fetched.

There is a major difference between knowing someone in a profession whom you don't think would do something, and assuming that no one in that profession would do said thing.

I know a guy who is a used car salesman who I don't think would cheat you. That's different from thinking all used car salesmen would not cheat you.

 

[lazyboy97o]

There is a major difference between knowing someone in a profession whom you don't think would do something, and assuming that no one in that profession would do said thing.

I know a guy who is a used car salesman who I don't think would cheat you. That's different from thinking all used car salesmen would not cheat you.

There is a huge difference between knowing that some people are unethical and claiming that thousands are secretly involved in illegal activity for the benefit of their employers and not themselves. Maybe I’m crazy, but if I’m going to take the risk of constantly engaging in illegal activity then I’m going to want something for it.

 

[GoofGoof]

There is a major difference between knowing someone in a profession whom you don't think would do something, and assuming that no one in that profession would do said thing.

I know a guy who is a used car salesman who I don't think would cheat you. That's different from thinking all used car salesmen would not cheat you.

A used car salesman cheats you because he gets paid a higher sales commission. It’s money in his pocket. I’ll say the same thing I said in response to @Tink242424, what financial incentive does a front line doctor or nurse have to falsify Covid information? Hospitals are large organizations with many layers of bureaucracy so the person making the call on Covid or not gets paid a salary, they don’t own the hospital. This concept of follow the money and greed works for a small business or an individual but not as well when you get into a large organization. The hospital may get paid more but unless there’s something very dishonest going on (cash paid out directly) there’s no clear benefit for the front line worker making the actual call. I find it very hard to believe doctors who spent many years in school and incurred thousands in loans are going to risk their medical license to help the hospital get a few more bucks in Covid funding. So if people know others who are actually doing this I am curious to know what they say their reason is.

 

[Incomudro]

I'm not arguing anything. Just stating what the study seems to say that the "mask proponents" say over and over. That you are wearing a piece of fabric on your face to protect others, not yourself.

I then stated my personal belief that I'm not convinced they protect others either but I'm not arguing about requirements to wear them. There's no reason to argue if not over requirements/mandates. I'm free to believe what I want based on research and data analysis just as you are. As long as I follow the rules, what difference does it make what I believe?

Mask use - theoretically - reduces the rate of spread.
The reason the cdc etc. decided to instruct the public to wear them is that they were afraid that the covid infection rate would expand at a pace that would quickly get out of control and overwhelm our hospitals.

 

[zurj]

A used car salesman cheats you because he gets paid a higher sales commission. It’s money in his pocket. I’ll say the same thing I said in response to @Tink242424, what financial incentive does a front line doctor or nurse have to falsify Covid information? Hospitals are large organizations with many layers of bureaucracy so the person making the call on Covid or not gets paid a salary, they don’t own the hospital. This concept of follow the money and greed works for a small business or an individual but not as well when you get into a large organization. The hospital may get paid more but unless there’s something very dishonest going on (cash paid out directly) there’s no clear benefit for the front line worker making the actual call. I find it very hard to believe doctors who spent many years in school and incurred thousands in loans are going to risk their medical license to help the hospital get a few more bucks in Covid funding. So if people know others who are actually doing this I am curious to know what they say their reason is.

There are plenty of video testimonies of doctors talking about pressure from higher-ups to label deaths as covid related, although you may have a tough time finding them as youtube has done their best to remove these types of videos because they don't fit community standards.

 

[The Mom]

There are plenty of video testimonies of doctors talking about pressure from higher-ups to label deaths as covid related, although you may have a tough time finding them as youtube has done their best to remove these types of videos because they don't fit community standards.

That is a standard response when someone can't provide evidence to back up a claim. If you cannot provide facts to back your opinion, then please stop posting it.

 

[Parker in NYC]

Wow, lots of people here have drunk the kool-aid. I find it very interesting that so many are quick to judge things as conspiracy theories when they are really common sense. If people don't believe that there is always more going on then is presented to the public then my post on a message board isn't going to help them.

Ah, yes. Conspiracies and deep covid, or deep state or whatever. I'm not buying it for one second. So, laugh (which you will).

 

[oceanbreeze77]

Ah, yes. Conspiracies and deep covid, or deep state or whatever. I'm not buying it for one second. So, laugh (which you will).

I heard the WHOLE WORLD is in on it

 

[Dan Deesnee]

That is a standard response when someone can't provide evidence to back up a claim. If you cannot provide facts to back your opinion, then please stop posting it.

https://fee.org/articles/physicians...st-covid-19-on-death-certificates-here-s-why/

Also, I guess this is proof to some extent? First question asked - https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Do...rtDeathsReCOVID.pdf?ver=2020-06-17-151822-090 - This was updated in June - "Until now, we counted all people who died that tested positive for COVID-19."

Even if someone had "facts" proving a hospital inflated their numbers, it still wouldn't prove all hospitals or most hospitals are doing it. You're essentially telling someone to prove via facts the unprovable in order to back up an opinion (claim). There is supporting evidence (linked above) for their claim though.

I don't know what to think, maybe some are inflating, maybe their not. Some hospitals that are in bad shape financially may be gaming the system to get additional funds. That is the only reason I can think that some facilities would artificially raise their numbers. Blind faith in any institution or government or organization is usually not a good idea.

 

[Parker in NYC]

Blind faith in any institution or government or organization is usually not a good idea.

So is wide-eyed dismissal of any institution or government or organization.

 

[The Mom]

https://fee.org/articles/physicians...st-covid-19-on-death-certificates-here-s-why/

Also, I guess this is proof to some extent? First question asked - https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Do...rtDeathsReCOVID.pdf?ver=2020-06-17-151822-090 - This was updated in June - "Until now, we counted all people who died that tested positive for COVID-19."

Even if someone had "facts" proving a hospital inflated their numbers, it still wouldn't prove all hospitals or most hospitals are doing it. You're essentially telling someone to prove via facts the unprovable in order to back up an opinion (claim). There is supporting evidence (linked above) for their claim though.

I don't know what to think, maybe some are inflating, maybe their not. Some hospitals that are in bad shape financially may be gaming the system to get additional funds. That is the only reason I can think that some facilities would artificially raise their numbers. Blind faith in any institution or government or organization is usually not a good idea.

Thank you. And thank you for pointing out that the claims are unprovable.
It is apparent that many deaths were attributed to Covid if the patient tested positive. But there is no proof that this was done for financial reasons.

I'm sure that a decade from now there will be lots of factual information about the who, what, wheres, and whys of this pandemic. Right now people are latching unto any claim that fits their preconceived opinions about government, healthcare, etc.

 

[mmascari]

With this process companies did the usual 4-7 years of upfront lab work in a matter of a few months.

Not really. All of them started on top of an existing vaccine platform already in development and not from scratch. They adjusted and customized for COVID instead of the original goal in a few months. But, that's not the same as starting from scratch. If we're trying to calculate the entire time, all of that original work time should be included in the duration.

You still didn't answer the question of how they are going to know if we've been vaccinated.

This one is simple, they'll just ask you.

For example, doesn't WDW already ask if someone has a fever, is sick, or had a recent COVID exposure?

I went to the dentist recently, and they asked a litany of screening questions. It's easy to see them adding one more. This will just become more common at more businesses. Like signing the liability waiver at an adventure park.

With no proof required, a better question might be, what's the recourse when someone just lies?

The answer to that question probably has more to do with liability suits, and insurance cost and availability.

 

[GoofGoof]

Not really. All of them started on top of an existing vaccine platform already in development and not from scratch. They adjusted and customized for COVID instead of the original goal in a few months. But, that's not the same as starting from scratch. If we're trying to calculate the entire time, all of that original work time should be included in the duration.

Yes, exactly. The 10-15 years quoted includes all the time from when a scientist first formally starts work for a company until delivery of the vaccine. It’s not that companies are skipping years of work, it’s just that in our math of saying the Covid vaccines were created in a year (starting in Jan-2020) we are only counting several months of upfront work when in reality there’s been quite a bit more done already that these companies are using.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Hey! Does the rum in the Dole Whip Rum Float at MK counteract any possible virus exposure when the mask is removed to suck down the tasty refreshment?

No, but it makes you care less.

No, but it makes you careless.

FTFY!

 

[MisterPenguin]

Woah, check out this epidemiologist's website:

COVID-19 in Florida (Dr. Jason Salemi)

WELCOME TO MY DASHBOARD TRACKING COVID-19 IN FLORIDA! The visualizations that follow were created using publicly available information on COVID-19 cases in Florida, updated daily, and mostly available from https://floridahealthcovid19.gov/. These were create mainly out of a desire to have...

covid19florida.mystrikingly.com

 

[MisterPenguin]

I don't see what is wrong with not counting positive tests twice over in the the daily count. For example, if I test positive Monday, and then go get tested Friday, the other methods would count me as a positive case twice. If anything, that inflates numbers in a way to me. I am not two separate people who contracted the virus.

The different ways to measure positivity give you different slices of information. It's good and honest and transparent to put out all three. So far, all three have pretty much agreed on the overall trends (see chart above).

It's disingenuous to switch to the one that fits one's narrative best and claim it's the right one and ignore the other methods.

And, as I've said several times: positivity can misleading if you're only testing the people who chose to get tested. A large number of people worried about having COVID but having no symptoms will drive positivity down. OTOH, if the vast majority of people getting tested are doing so because they have symptoms, then the rate shoots up.

Only randomized sampling will give a true snapshot. (And before anyone asks, you entice the people you're targeting with a reward or some type of coupon since it's voluntary to get tested.)