Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

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Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
That’s simply not true. Ask bar owners or restaurant owners who are struggling now because they can’t operate. Parents of school kids who’ve seen people moving about their daily lives maskless yet can’t get their kids back into school. California’s business owners who don’t have a hope of opening until there’s a negligible detection of coronavirus. I like many others have taken it very safe going on six months now but the fickle nature of what’s permitted and what’s not has gone on far too long.
That's what happens when most states don't work together. Here in Canada all provinces worked togther to get things better. instead each state did what they felt was in their best interest "me first" Like I said here in Canada it's not like that at all. Kids go back to school next week. All bars and restaurants are open and don't seem to be struggling too much.
 

Stitch826

Well-Known Member
That’s simply not true. Ask bar owners or restaurant owners who are struggling now because they can’t operate. Parents of school kids who’ve seen people moving about their daily lives maskless yet can’t get their kids back into school. California’s business owners who don’t have a hope of opening until there’s a negligible detection of coronavirus. I like many others have taken it very safe going on six months now but the fickle nature of what’s permitted and what’s not has gone on far too long.
Exactly! How many restaurants and other businesses, especially small locally-owned businesses, will have to permanently close their doors because of the financial hit? How many jobs are being lost? How many single parents are struggling with helping their children with online schooling while trying to maintain holding a job? How has this pandemic affected mental health in America- especially in terms of the number of suicides and substance abuse? How much has domestic violence increased the last six months? What about child abuse? Child neglect? All of these are factors that need to be considered as well.
 

Heppenheimer

Well-Known Member
Don’t know if this has been posted in the 1800+ pages of comments. View attachment 493923
Straight from the CDC website. States that only six percent of COVID deaths are from COVID specifically. The remaining 94% of deaths occurred in people that had an average of 2.6 other conditions or causes of death.

So with that being said, the COVID pandemic is absolutely being overstated.
Your ability to survive ANY illness depends on your comorbidities (or lack thereof).
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Don’t know if this has been posted in the 1800+ pages of comments. View attachment 493923
Straight from the CDC website. States that only six percent of COVID deaths are from COVID specifically. The remaining 94% of deaths occurred in people that had an average of 2.6 other conditions or causes of death.

So with that being said, the COVID pandemic is absolutely being overstated.
So by your definition only a person who has no underlying health conditions who dies from Covid should be counted? That seems rather narrow a focus. The most common comorbidities are all of the conditions that put people in the higher risk groups to begin with like hypertension and diabetes. So a Covid patient who dies but has high blood pressure shouldn’t count as a Covid death? That makes a whole lot of sense.

Edit: Here is a follow up story a out how Twitter removed the QAnon tweets that started this 6% story.
 
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Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
Exactly! How many restaurants and other businesses, especially small locally-owned businesses, will have to permanently close their doors because of the financial hit? How many jobs are being lost? How many single parents are struggling with helping their children with online schooling while trying to maintain holding a job? How has this pandemic affected mental health in America- especially in terms of the number of suicides and substance abuse? How much has domestic violence increased the last six months? What about child abuse? Child neglect? All of these are factors that need to be considered as well.
First read my post above yours to see how your neighbor is doing with this.
 

Stitch826

Well-Known Member
So by your definition only a person who has no underlying health conditions who dies from Covid should be counted? That seems rather narrow a focus. The most common comorbidities are all of the conditions that put people in the higher risk groups to begin with like hypertension and diabetes. So a Covid patient who dies but has high blood pressure shouldn’t count as a Covid death? That makes a whole lot of sense.
If an obese patient tests positive for COVID, then suffers a fatal heart attack, should the cause of death be COVID? If he/she had the heart attack a week earlier before being diagnosed, it would be attributed to being obese. Likewise, if an 80-year old longtime diabetic suffers kidney failure and dies after being diagnosed with COVID, how should that be classified? Like I wrote in my original post, most people dying of COVID have close to three other conditions in addition to COVID-19.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
If an obese patient tests positive for COVID, then suffers a fatal heart attack, should the cause of death be COVID? If he/she had the heart attack a week earlier before being diagnosed, it would be attributed to being obese. Likewise, if an 80-year old longtime diabetic suffers kidney failure and dies after being diagnosed with COVID, how should that be classified? Like I wrote in my original post, most people dying of COVID have close to three other conditions in addition to COVID-19.
See my edit to the post. Read the attached link.
 

hopemax

Well-Known Member
If an obese patient tests positive for COVID, then suffers a fatal heart attack, should the cause of death be COVID? If he/she had the heart attack a week earlier before being diagnosed, it would be attributed to being obese. Likewise, if an 80-year old longtime diabetic suffers kidney failure and dies after being diagnosed with COVID, how should that be classified? Like I wrote in my original post, most people dying of COVID have close to three other conditions in addition to COVID-19.
As I understand it, the pathology of a normal heart attack and a normal kidney failure look different than a Covid induced heart attack or Covid induced kidney failure. Not just a positive test, but also the presence of atypical blood clots. The "ground glass" appearance within the lungs. That's how they are determining the difference. Pre-death labs, and post death autopsies.
 

corsairk09

Well-Known Member
That’s simply not true. Ask bar owners or restaurant owners who are struggling now because they can’t operate. Parents of school kids who’ve seen people moving about their daily lives maskless yet can’t get their kids back into school. California’s business owners who don’t have a hope of opening until there’s a negligible detection of coronavirus. I like many others have taken it very safe going on six months now but the fickle nature of what’s permitted and what’s not has gone on far too long.
I completely agree. I am a teacher and we opened schools for students last week. Since preplanning.. 14 days.... the health department protocols have changed twice. TWICE!!! How after six months do we not have a consistent message from the medical community? I believe that education is so important and that we have to have a brick and mortar schools. We are going above and beyond doing everything we can to keep these kids safe but no one can tell us for sure what all of those things are. Protocols change constantly. It’s overwhelming andthe world can’t go on like this.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
As I understand it, the pathology of a normal heart attack and a normal kidney failure look different than a Covid induced heart attack or Covid induced kidney failure. Not just a positive test, but also the presence of atypical blood clots. The "ground glass" appearance within the lungs. That's how they are determining the difference. Pre-death labs, and post death autopsies.
That’s also why it takes time to determine and announce the cause of death. There’s been people complaining about the lag in death reporting, but it’s not always cut and dry. I believe the vast majority of people on the front lines dealing with treating the patients and responsible for determining the cause of death are doing the best job they can and are not involved in some conspiracy theory.
 

corsairk09

Well-Known Member
Exactly! How many restaurants and other businesses, especially small locally-owned businesses, will have to permanently close their doors because of the financial hit? How many jobs are being lost? How many single parents are struggling with helping their children with online schooling while trying to maintain holding a job? How has this pandemic affected mental health in America- especially in terms of the number of suicides and substance abuse? How much has domestic violence increased the last six months? What about child abuse? Child neglect? All of these are factors that need to be considered as well.
I wanna like this twice.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I completely agree. I am a teacher and we opened schools for students last week. Since preplanning.. 14 days.... the health department protocols have changed twice. TWICE!!! How after six months do we not have a consistent message from the medical community. I believe that education is so important and that we have to have a brick and mortar schools. We are going above and beyond doing everything we can to keep these kids safe but no one can tell us for sure what all of those things are. Protocols change constantly. It’s overwhelming andthe world can’t go on like this.
There is no excuse for the lack of firm plans. We needed (and still need) stronger leadership focused on results and science instead of peddling conspiracy theories and worrying about politics. It’s tragic to see unfold like this.
 

JoeCamel

Well-Known Member
Exactly! How many restaurants and other businesses, especially small locally-owned businesses, will have to permanently close their doors because of the financial hit? How many jobs are being lost? How many single parents are struggling with helping their children with online schooling while trying to maintain holding a job? How has this pandemic affected mental health in America- especially in terms of the number of suicides and substance abuse? How much has domestic violence increased the last six months? What about child abuse? Child neglect? All of these are factors that need to be considered as well.
The sad answer is a lot. When 20 million are out of work they are not out spending money in bars, stores and restaurants

We will need to change and adjust to move forward, for years I have seen pictures of Asian countries that have people on the streets wearing masks. This may become the norm here as well, no denying they help prevent the spread of viruses.

Lowering occupancy in indoor spaces, distancing, all may become the norm. If a business cannot implement these measures and be profitable they probably will not survive. Sad but we are not going back to all is well anytime soon. And if people won't distance and wear a mask it will be much longer.
 
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GoofGoof

Premium Member
The sad answer is a lot. When 20 million are out of work they are not out spending money in bars, stores and restaurants

We will need to change and adjust to move forward, for years I see pictures of Asian countries that have people on the streets wearing masks. This may become the norm here as well, no denying they help prevent the spread of viruses.

Lowering occupancy in indoor spaces, distancing, all may become the norm. If a business cannot implement these measures and be profitable it probably will not survive. Sad but we are not going back to all is well anytime soon. And if people won't distance and wear a mask it will be much longer.
Nobody asked for this and nobody wants it to last longer. We all need to do our part to help get as much of the economy up and running as possible. There Is a false narrative out there that there‘s a choice between the economy and public health. In reality the best thing for the economy is a reduction in cases so those things work hand in hand. As an example look at some bars that opened this summer. Instead of following social distancing and mask requirements they packed people in. That lead to a major surge in cases which lead to a lot of states closing bars again. So the short term money grab of packing the bar with people lead to a long term huge negative for all bar owners. If everyone does things the right way than more can be open and more people will be comfortable participating in the economy. That takes buy in from the public as well as business owners. Stop the Covid denial, the conspiracy theories, the resistance to masks and/or distancing and get with the program.
 

Ben_since_1971

Well-Known Member
If an obese patient tests positive for COVID, then suffers a fatal heart attack, should the cause of death be COVID? If he/she had the heart attack a week earlier before being diagnosed, it would be attributed to being obese. Likewise, if an 80-year old longtime diabetic suffers kidney failure and dies after being diagnosed with COVID, how should that be classified? Like I wrote in my original post, most people dying of COVID have close to three other conditions in addition to COVID-19.
I did not want to dive into this discussion because I have much more important things to do, but I need to add my .02 to this. My father is 78 years old. He has dementia, circulation issues, high blood pressure and is almost two years removed from his second heart attack that resulted in a sextuple bypass and valve replacement. Prior to June 5, he was very healthy (all things considered). His vitals were all normal (he lives in a nursing home), he had a normal appetite, and besides the dementia, you would never know anything was wrong.

June 6 he tested positive for Covid-19. I braced for the worst. Fortunately, and the only reason why I am posting this, he had a very mild case. He had fever for a couple of days, and his primary symptoms were fatigue and a nagging cough. July 6 he was released back to his residential unit, and today he is as he was on June 5. I am eternally grateful.

But if the worst had happened, if he had died, I no doubt believe cause of death would have been Covid with comorbidities of heart disease, hypertension, and I am sure they would have thrown a few more high score scrabble words in there. According to your logic, his death should not have been classified a Covid death because of the comorbidities. But it would have been Covid that brought on the episode that would have killed him. On June 5, there was no reason to believe my father was ready to join my stepmother in heaven, other than his number would have been up.

I do not doubt that some deaths may have been overstated as Covid (i.e. the aforementioned auto accident victim who just found out they tested positive or post mortem was discovered positive). But to blanket say anyone with comorbidities and Covid is not a Covid death and should not be counted is shortsighted.

(Edited for grammar)
 

LukeS7

Well-Known Member
I did not want to dive into this discussion because I have much more important things to do, but I need to add my .02 to this. My father is 78 years old. He has dementia, circulation issues, high blood pressure and is almost two years removed from his second heart attack that resulted in a sextuple bypass and valve replacement. Prior to June 5, he was very healthy (all things considered). His vitals were all normal (he lives in a nursing home), he had a normal appetite, and besides the dementia, you would never know anything was wrong.

June 6 he tested positive for Covid-19. I braced for the worst. Fortunately, and the only reason why I am posting this, he had a very mild case. He had fever for a couple of days, and his primary symptoms were fatigue and a nagging cough. July 6 he was released back to his residential unit, and today he is as he was on June 5. I am eternally grateful.

But if the worst had happened, if he had died, I no doubt believe cause of death would have been Covid with comorbidities of heart disease, hypertension, and I am sure they would have thrown a few more high score scrabble words in there. According to your logic, his death should not have been classified a Covid death because of the comorbidities. But it would have been Covid that brought on the episode that would have killed him. On June 5, there was no reason to believe my father was ready to join my stepmother in heaven, other than his number would have been up.

I do not doubt that some deaths may have been overstated as Covid (i.e. the aforementioned auto accident victim who just found out they tested positive or post mortem was discovered positive). But to blanket say anyone with comorbidities and Covid is not a Covid death and should not be counted is shortsighted.

(Edited for grammar)
Glad your dad made it through okay!

I don’t get the comorbidity argument that some here are trying to make. As has been shown in other posts, we’ve had *much* higher than expected death rates for most weeks of this year. If people with comorbidities were going to die anyways, they would’ve been accounted for in the expected deaths and we wouldn’t be ~200,000 above our expected death amount already.
 

Castmbr

Active Member
I did not want to dive into this discussion because I have much more important things to do, but I need to add my .02 to this. My father is 78 years old. He has dementia, circulation issues, high blood pressure and is almost two years removed from his second heart attack that resulted in a sextuple bypass and valve replacement. Prior to June 5, he was very healthy (all things considered). His vitals were all normal (he lives in a nursing home), he had a normal appetite, and besides the dementia, you would never know anything was wrong.

June 6 he tested positive for Covid-19. I braced for the worst. Fortunately, and the only reason why I am posting this, he had a very mild case. He had fever for a couple of days, and his primary symptoms were fatigue and a nagging cough. July 6 he was released back to his residential unit, and today he is as he was on June 5. I am eternally grateful.

But if the worst had happened, if he had died, I no doubt believe cause of death would have been Covid with comorbidities of heart disease, hypertension, and I am sure they would have thrown a few more high score scrabble words in there. According to your logic, his death should not have been classified a Covid death because of the comorbidities. But it would have been Covid that brought on the episode that would have killed him. On June 5, there was no reason to believe my father was ready to join my stepmother in heaven, other than his number would have been up.

I do not doubt that some deaths may have been overstated as Covid (i.e. the aforementioned auto accident victim who just found out they tested positive or post mortem was discovered positive). But to blanket say anyone with comorbidities and Covid is not a Covid death and should not be counted is shortsighted.

(Edited for grammar)

Show me the data that supports that we have had a huge spike in overall deaths in the US over the monthly rolling averages from 2017,2018,2019 and I will agree with you. Considering the CDC conveniently stopped reporting from April -July 2020 it is VERY convenient. This is not as bad as the media is playing it to be. I agree that it has a certain age group that is susceptible but lock downs for everyone is foolish.

 
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LukeS7

Well-Known Member
Show me the data that supports that we have had a huge spike in overall deaths in the US over the monthly rolling averages from 2017,2018,2019 and I will agree with you. Considering the CDC conveniently stopped reporting from April -July 2020 it is VERY convenient. This is not as bad as the media is play it to be. I agree that it has a certain age group that is susceptible but lock downs for everyone is foolish.

 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Show me the data that supports that we have had a huge spike in overall deaths in the US over the monthly rolling averages from 2017,2018,2019 and I will agree with you. Considering the CDC conveniently stopped reporting from April -July 2020 it is VERY convenient. This is not as bad as the media is play it to be. I agree that it has a certain age group that is susceptible but lock downs for everyone is foolish.

You're doing it again. You keep denying the accuracy of all the data which would require the entire medical establishments of all the countries, states, and counties of the entire world to be in this conspiracy to put out false data.

And when we get to the point where we say, "Well, look at the corpses. They're real. They've been counted." You then question even that.

If anything, the number of COVID cases has been *undercounted." Not overcounted. Besides the link @Touchdown posted, here's what the NYT has been tracking...

View attachment 493771

So, what's your source that the number of dead human beings from COVID is significantly off?
 
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