Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Flugell]

Canada can do its thing, but I can't see that ever flying in the US. Places are barely getting by with mask mandates that don't even have punishments. The idea that municipalities will start fining individuals $100,000(!!!!) for having people over to their house is laughable. I'm pretty sure our Constitution wouldn't allow it anyway.

Genuine question from the U.K. . Which part of the constitution wouldn’t allow people to be fined for breaking recommendations/laws (not certain which they are)? If the constitution does allow people to break the recommendations/laws what would be necessary for them to become enforceable? Is it mostly a political objection or is it an understandable desire to return to life before the pandemic? Does anyone feel that there may yet be a way to find a compromise? We are elderlyish! Have some underlying health conditions and are desperate to return to WDW before we’re too old and decrepit to do so, hence the desire for a reasonable compromise. Thanks in advance.

 

[MrHappy]

Opening the theme parks was a HUGE mistake.

Opening Miami-Dade and Broward Counties was a HUGE mistake.

 

[lisa12000]

We've seen how well that's working for them. Seeing so many people die from this that didn't need to cause you rushed to open up everything makes me angry. Seeing the people justify it blows my mind.

i know this may not go down well with you and others but i see your posts constantly saying what canada did so well and pouring scorn on America and Americans! I’m not from the US, my country haven’t really covered themselves in glory but I would never ever deem to tell Americans and the country what to do - and I’ll repeat what someone else said - don’t count your chickens yet - look at Australia etc and a lot of Europe who put in some of the tightest restrictions And came out of lockdown slowly and are still seeing resurgence - Germany has got one of the best testing and contact tracing systems and their cases are rising - we are putting in local lockdowns etc and our cases are rising and we still aren’t fully out of lockdown anyway! This virus will infect who it’s going to infect unfortunately and all we can do is slow it down and hope for more treatments which will allow it to be ‘just another’ virus

 

[October82]

Genuine question from the U.K. . Which part of the constitution wouldn’t allow people to be fined for breaking recommendations/laws (not certain which they are)?

There is no serious constitutional argument against mask mandates and the like, but people in the US aren't educated about how our laws and system of government work, and consequently have strange ideas about what the constitution actually says.

If the constitution does allow people to break the recommendations/laws what would be necessary for them to become enforceable?

The actual legal issues around things like mask mandates come down to questions of process. Is this something that state governors have the power to impose, or must it be decided by the legislature?

Is it mostly a political objection or is it an understandable desire to return to life before the pandemic? Does anyone feel that there may yet be a way to find a compromise?

Entirely a political objection, mostly resulting from the overall politicization of the issue that occurred when it became clear that the combined impacts of the virus and the economic consequences of responding to it were driving down poll numbers. "Masks" and "anti-lockdown" protests became political rallying points for the right.

We are elderlyish! Have some underlying health conditions and are desperate to return to WDW before we’re too old and decrepit to do so, hence the desire for a reasonable compromise. Thanks in advance.

In answering that question, I wouldn't focus on what the state/national laws end up being, but whether the US is able to ultimately get its case numbers to decline rather than flatten. Places like WDW seem to be taking reasonable precautions, so even if it is not yet clear that those are sufficient precautions, I would expect that they are comparable to anywhere in the UK. The problem is that those measures are less effective overall since the number of infected people you'll be exposed to is much higher if the US hasn't dealt with the virus.

 

[Jrb1979]

i know this may not go down well with you and others but i see your posts constantly saying what canada did so well and pouring scorn on America and Americans! I’m not from the US, my country haven’t really covered themselves in glory but I would never ever deem to tell Americans and the country what to do - and I’ll repeat what someone else said - don’t count your chickens yet - look at Australia etc and a lot of Europe who put in some of the tightest restrictions And came out of lockdown slowly and are still seeing resurgence - Germany has got one of the best testing and contact tracing systems and their cases are rising - we are putting in local lockdowns etc and our cases are rising and we still aren’t fully out of lockdown anyway! This virus will infect who it’s going to infect unfortunately and all we can do is slow it down and hope for more treatments which will allow it to be ‘just another’ virus

I'm not trying to come down on America and Americans. I'm sorry it comes of that way. I do expect our cases to rise again but so far what has been done has worked. I know not all Americans are the same and many are trying to follow social distancing guidelines. Where it angers me is the few that justify the deaths and cases as being a ok cause things need to open quickly.

 

[October82]

i know this may not go down well with you and others but i see your posts constantly saying what canada did so well and pouring scorn on America and Americans! I’m not from the US, my country haven’t really covered themselves in glory but I would never ever deem to tell Americans and the country what to do

I've never understood this attitude that we shouldn't comment on the facts of how the policies of other countries are or are not working. It's not like saying the US has failed to respond to coronavirus is saying that Americans are bad people or something to that effect.

- and I’ll repeat what someone else said - don’t count your chickens yet - look at Australia etc and a lot of Europe who put in some of the tightest restrictions And came out of lockdown slowly and are still seeing resurgence - Germany has got one of the best testing and contact tracing systems and their cases are rising - we are putting in local lockdowns etc and our cases are rising and we still aren’t fully out of lockdown anyway! This virus will infect who it’s going to infect unfortunately and all we can do is slow it down and hope for more treatments which will allow it to be ‘just another’ virus

The problem here is the "fatalistic" attitude. No, the virus isn't going to "infect who it's going to infect". If we respond appropriately, the virus will infect fewer and kill a great many less. Normal life everywhere is a long way off, but Germany and Australia have done a much better job than the US and hopefully will continue to manage things well.

 

[xdan0920]

Numbers clearly falling across the southern states. Despite not locking down again. Makes you think.

 

[October82]

Makes you think [...]

that mask compliance, testing and contact tracing can work.

 

[SamusAranX]

You can have parties here but it has to be under 50 people. Anyone having a party with more then that can be charged. Maybe it's time to start punishing people so they understand.

honestly, I would say any gathering of more then a few people is too risky at this time.
There was a house party in New Jersey with 700 people! What were these people smoking?

 

[Jrb1979]

Numbers clearly falling across the southern states. Despite not locking down again. Makes you think.

Again no is saying to lock down again but make masks mandatory, and enforce social distancing. Those 2 simple things would make the numbers drop even more and prevent big spikes again in the future. With low case numbers you can do contact tracing. Again what's wrong with doing that?

 

[Flugell]

Dear October 82,
Thanks for your detailed and clear answer. Appreciate the time and effort.

 

[Horizons '83]

Numbers clearly falling across the southern states. Despite not locking down again. Makes you think.

Clearly as in clear as mud?

 

[xdan0920]

Again no is saying to lock down again but make masks mandatory, and enforce social distancing. Those 2 simple things would make the numbers drop even more and prevent big spikes again in the future. With low case numbers you can do contact tracing. Again what's wrong with doing that?

Lots of people are saying to lockdown again.

 

[hopemax]

I think that website is simply subtracting "yesterday's total number" from "today's total number" to get a daily total. This is based on "Florida Testing" tab on the Dashboard. We can check by jotting it down for a few days.

So for today, the total number of people tested says: 3,436,270

Checking in on this for @Kevin_W

Today's total number says: 3,485,141

Difference: 48,871

Covid Tracker: 44,994

So, still not the same, but a lot closer number than the Daily Report's ~90K. There is a note on Covid Tracker that says something about FL's number not being entirely "de-duplicated" so maybe they have a process for cleaning that up?

Interesting if half the tests are retests. The more testing capacity is eaten up by retesting current patients, puts pressure on the ability to look for new cases in a timely manner.

Also, this is more "the other thread" thing, but with today's death tally going up by quite a lot. FL broke the "100 deaths on one day" on 7/7 and it has remained above 100, on 9 of the next 12 days. 3 of the days were in the 80s. The high is 117 on both 7/11 & 7/12. Still taking at least a week for deaths to be near "fully recorded."

 

[easyrowrdw]

Genuine question from the U.K. . Which part of the constitution wouldn’t allow people to be fined for breaking recommendations/laws (not certain which they are)? If the constitution does allow people to break the recommendations/laws what would be necessary for them to become enforceable? Is it mostly a political objection or is it an understandable desire to return to life before the pandemic? Does anyone feel that there may yet be a way to find a compromise? We are elderlyish! Have some underlying health conditions and are desperate to return to WDW before we’re too old and decrepit to do so, hence the desire for a reasonable compromise. Thanks in advance.

The Eighth Amendment protects against excessive fines. A $100,000 fine for a gathering at your home seems prima facie excessive.

There is no serious constitutional argument against mask mandates and the like, but people in the US aren't educated about how our laws and system of government work, and consequently have strange ideas about what the constitution actually says.

The comment was not about masks, but exorbitant fines for personal gatherings.

 

[chrisvee]

I'm not trying to come down on America and Americans. I'm sorry it comes of that way. I do expect our cases to rise again but so far what has been done has worked. I know not all Americans are the same and many are trying to follow social distancing guidelines. Where it angers me is the few that justify the deaths and cases as being a ok cause things need to open quickly.

don’t worry I doubt it comes off that way to most; analysis and criticism aren’t the same thing

 

[xdan0920]

Clearly as in clear as mud?

I don’t get it.

 

[Horizons '83]

I don’t get it.

Numbers are clearly falling?

 

[chrisvee]

Lots of people are saying to lockdown again.

I don’t know who lots of people are but yes, some are calling for another lockdown. There is concern that we’re plateauing fairly high and the actions we’re taking can’t move the needle enough.

Shut Down, Start Over, Do it Right

US PIRG’s main point:

”Finally, let’s do what we need to do now. Non-essential businesses should be closed. Restaurant service should be limited to take-out. People should stay home, going out only to get food and medicine or to exercise and get fresh air. Masks should be mandatory in all situations, indoors and outdoors, where we interact with others.

We need that protocol in place until case numbers recede to a level at which we have the capacity to effectively test and trace. Then, and only then, we can try a little more opening, one small step at a time. We should take those steps only at intervals long enough that we have enough time to see the effects. In the meantime, we need to massively increase our ability to test and trace, so that as we slowly reopen, we can keep a lid on the spread of the virus.

We should also be barring non-essential interstate travel. When we travel freely between states, the good numbers in one state can go bad at the drop of a hat. That’s why New York is not too keen on welcoming Floridians (and visitors from eighteen other states) just now.

If we don’t take these actions, the consequences will be measured in widespread suffering and death. Few people living today remember what it was like to live through a world war, but that’s what we’re in, and we’re going to have to sacrifice if we want to save ourselves and each other. Just as the greatest generation did, we need to step up to what history has delivered.”

 

[xdan0920]

Numbers are clearly falling?

Yes.