Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Andrew C]

Fines. It was a big deal because the PA liquor stores closed and people from the county that borders Delaware were driving in to buy booze. They had cops waiting in the parking lot for PA drivers. You got a ticket if you stopped. I have a friend and his brother went to University of Delaware so still had Delaware plates on his car. He was doing liquor runs into Delaware for half his neighborhood.

Fine for traveling to another state? Or fine for not quarantining yourself when entering?

 

[DisneyDebRob]

Confront you and do what?

Confront might be the wrong word? I know there was a fine. Not really sure how they could throw you in a room and quarantine. We weren’t “caught” so don’t know. All I know is there was supposed to be no stopping of any kind.

 

[GoofGoof]

So, how is this enforced? I drive my car with an out of state plate and they pull me over? Also, this is legal? They will make people register?

RI and FL both did the registration thing too. When FL put their travel ban in they had national guard troops stationed at the airports to register people from NY/NJ/CT. They also had roadblocks on major highways to stop cars to register them.

 

[GoofGoof]

Fine for traveling to another state? Or fine for not quarantining yourself when entering?

Fine for going into a public place in the state without quarantining. If you went into Delaware and entered a store you violated the rule. You could drive your car through without stopping anywhere. It was entering the store that was the violation not entering the state.

 

[lazyboy97o]

no, no, no. i'm sorry, you can't say something "isn't true" and then offer reasons why public health officials said not to wear them, which has nothing to do with their corresponding claims of effectiveness. public health officials said they don't want a run on them when it's healthcare workers that need them....because they're not effective for the general public.

why are we so quick to just revise history?

i wear a mask. i don't particularly care. you can easily go find old posts and see me asking people to wear a mask. i'm not some dude yelling at costco. but let's not pretend to understand why some people are confused. even if we bold words, it doesn't change the fact that WHO, CDC, dr. fauci, the surgeon general, dr. sanjay gupta, and many, many other doctors on every single news station across the country said that they won't protect you, so don't wear one and take them away from healthcare workers who have them properly fitted to make them effective and need them to treat the sick.

again, not a hill i'm willing to die on, but also not super stoked about a claim i'm being dishonest when everyone has a memory (or a twitter account) where we can just go back 4 months and see what was actually happening.

Nothing is being rewritten. The recommendation against masks was in regard to protecting the mask wearing. That is still true. In one of those interviews in March Dr. Fauci said masks should be worn by people who are sick because they are contagious. That changed to everyone when it was being recognized that unlike other respiratory diseases being contagious did not correlate to be symptomatic.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

The stories I heard were police were “reminding” you of the rules at checkpoints so then if you entered a store you couldn’t say you didn’t know.

 

[BrianLo]

just so everyone knows (and brian knows this), i very much respect his opinion, especially since it's a very, very well informed one. we've gone back and forth on this a little bit.

i agree largely with it not being much to take solace in, with the caveat that we have to look at state-by-state at how the lag affects that state's individual curve, how it lines up with re-opening (which was done haphazardly in many of the southern states), and what we can glean. i haven't done that, so i'm not going to pretend i have.

i still think cases are a flawed indicator, but who knows. still lots to learn on this.

I actually think it's all horribly incomplete data. Not that any decisions are really made based on it anyways.

I am also literally all over the map on what I think schools should do. But if the adult hospitals are crazy-town, I can attest inpatient Peds has never been slower. I just wish everyone's priority was schools; not bars, casinos, night clubs or... even theme parks. That seems to be where the Canadian Paediatric Society and American Academy of Paediatrics is siding.

 

[Andrew C]

Fine for going into a public place in the state without quarantining. If you went into Delaware and entered a store you violated the rule. You could drive your car through without stopping anywhere. It was entering the store that was the violation not entering the state.

Got it. I wonder if anyone has challenged the registration aspect under the privileges and immunity clause (freedom of movement, etc.)

 

[ChrisRobin124]

I actually think it's all horribly incomplete data. Not that any decisions are really made based on it anyways.

I am also literally all over the map on what I think schools should do. But if the adult hospitals are crazy-town, I can attest inpatient Peds has never been slower. I just wish everyone's priority was schools; not bars, night clubs or... even theme parks. That seems to be where the Canadian Paediatric Society and American Academy of Paediatrics is siding.

Schools can reopen if infection level is 5% or lower, Cuomo says

Schools in New York State can reopen in September if the coronavirus infection level is 5% or lower in their region by the first week in August, but will remain closed if the level rises to 9% or greater before the day school opens, Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo said. Under the guidelines announced by Cuomo, schools on Long Island would be allowed to open given current conditions.

 

[Casper Gutman]

The chart that’s already been quoted twice. Here let me show you.

View attachment 483464
Look at the highlighted area. See anything odd? Huge jumps in lagged deaths. That’s not normal.

The chart is interesting. Do you know the source of the numbers?

What's your theory on that jump?

PS: Numbers seem to come from the Covid Tracking Project, but I can't find them broken down in the manner of the chart. If you can point me to that, it'd be great.

 

[oceanbreeze77]

I think the moment a MAJOR city locks down again will be the turning point. (hopefully) I see LA being first maybe Houston.

 

[Piebald]

Was just alerted a coworker died. 41 and per wife no underlying conditions. Got sick 2 weeks ago and died over the weekend.

 

[Andrew C]

I think the moment a MAJOR city locks down again will be the turning point. (hopefully) I see LA being first maybe Houston.

Houston would not be able to do that on their own at this time. It would have to come from the Governor.

 

[oceanbreeze77]

Houston would not be able to do that on their own at this time. It would have to come from the Governor.

Which based on his change in tone and rhetoric, is possible.

 

[Andrew C]

Which based on his change in tone and rhetoric, is possible.

Sure, it is possible. My only point was that this decision will come from the state rather than local authorities.

 

[GoofGoof]

Got it. I wonder if anyone has challenged the registration aspect under the privileges and immunity clause (freedom of movement, etc.)

You are free to enter and travel through the state, just not free to interact publicly with the local population before serving the quarantine. I know there was a legal challenge in the Outer Banks in NC when they blocked all out of state people, including out of state homeowners, from entering the barrier islands. Same happened in some vacation areas in Michigan near the lake. In that case they were physically blocking people from free travel. These travel bans allow people to enter and stay in the state as long as they follow the required quarantine protocol. The registration aspect is designed to ensure the people have a place to quarantine for 14 days. To my knowledge no states were actually following up to make sure you stayed at the address for the 14 days. So for example if a NY driver enters RI to go to a bar/restaurant or a party they are stoped and if they don’t have a RI address they can give as the place they will quarantine for 14 days they are turned away at the border. A person who has relatives or a vacation home in the state gives there address and moves through.

 

[kong1802]

The chart that’s already been quoted twice. Here let me show you.

View attachment 483464
Look at the highlighted area. See anything odd? Huge jumps in lagged deaths. That’s not normal.

So if we can trust these numbers, it means that in April we reported 24,550 deaths when in actuality there were 57,963 from April and counting....

So the media was downplaying the deaths back then and no one was coming for them. Now that the deaths are being counted as they are being reported, they are over playing it?

If anything this tells me its worse than we are being led to believe....

 

[baymenxpac]

Nothing is being rewritten. The recommendation against masks was in regard to protecting the mask wearing. That is still true. In one of those interviews in March Dr. Fauci said masks should be worn by people who are sick because they are contagious. That changed to everyone when it was being recognized that unlike other respiratory diseases being contagious did not correlate to be symptomatic.

last thing i'll say on this. he also said on march 8 on 60 minutes:

"the masks are important for someone who is infected to prevent them from infecting someone else. now, when you see people and look at the films in china and south korea, wherever, where everyone's wearing a mask...right now, in the united states, people should not walking be around with masks. there's no reason to be walking around with a mask. when you're in the middle of any outbreak, wearing a mask might make people feel a little bit better and it might even block a droplet, but it's not providing the perfect protection that people think that it is. and often, there are unintended consequences, they keep fiddling with the mask and they keep touching their face."

again, i have respect for dr. fauci and his work. i am absolutely not criticizing him. what you're saying is what i said a couple of posts ago: they changed the message as they received new facts. but they did change the message. nothing wrong with changing to more appropriate guidelines, just silly to say that officials never claimed they weren't effective. they did, then they changed. okay cool.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Fine for going into a public place in the state without quarantining. If you went into Delaware and entered a store you violated the rule. You could drive your car through without stopping anywhere. It was entering the store that was the violation not entering the state.

I don't know about state-to-state bans, but there were news reports of US visitors to Canada receiving some hefty fines for not obeying the mandatory quarantine.

 

[xdan0920]

I do understand the overall point posters are trying to make, but it reaches the opposite conclusion. This is actually worse news that reporting of deaths are lagging so much. Since that was the metric supporting reopening and it is now proven incorrect. Bad decisions have been made since April and the data is now appearing to support that.

Like @baymenxpac said, I have a tremendous amount of respect for Brian. I am going to have to disagree here though. A couple things to think about.

1. we are way better at diagnosing and testing now. So the days of 6-8 week lags should be over. In fact the lags should start moving closer and closer to real time.

2. We shouldn’t ever be using 1 metric to make decisions. It shouldn’t just be cases, or just be deaths, or just be hospitalizations. Everything needs to be put in the proper context. Then we can make smart, informed, cautious decisions. Instead of the panicky, fear based measures we previously enacted.