Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Chi84]

Wayne Gretzky‘s famous quote comes to mind. “You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take”. Masks might not be 100% effective but they are more effective than no mask at all. Even if people sometimes pull them down or wear them wrong its still better than not wearing them at all. When masks are combined with other measures the cumulative effect is the best we can do right now to get things open while protecting people (especially workers).

I don't believe that we can sustain large-scale mandatory mask-wearing with the reasoning that playing at wearing masks is better than no mask at all.

We haven't been out much since March, but I recently went to a hair salon where employees and customers were wearing masks. Three women were sitting 6 feet apart from each other with their masks pulled down talking loudly to heard over the background noise while people walked between them.

At an electrical supply store, most people were wearing those blue disposable masks. Almost every person wearing glasses wore the mask under their nose, presumably to prevent their glasses from fogging up. Two customers had lowered their masks in order to talk to an employee.

For the record, I don't doubt that at this point, widespread mask-wearing is the right thing to do because of how quickly the virus is spreading, how devastating it can be to some people, and because there is no cure or vaccine. My hope, though, is that mask-wearing will be evaluated from time to time in terms of how much good it actually does (in practice, not theory) given how the masks are being worn. If people are wearing masks around their necks or hanging off one ear, what incentive is there to ever end the practice? I guess we can just go WDW as planned and use the masks for show.

In almost every case, the studies showing that masks are effective in stopping the spread of the virus do not say what the headlines indicate. Almost all are done in hospitals or medical settings using better quality masks that are properly worn, and they all evaluate masks in combination with other measures. Yet when I talk to people, or see some of the posts here, some seem to think that masks are a highly effective force-field against the virus and that they're at great risk of death if they walk past someone not wearing one.

 

[WDW862]

Have you seen the images of Covid lung? I don’t want that...

If the death rate is decreasing, it means that there are fewer cases. We're just finally testing for cases now. You don't need to be a genius to realize this.

 

[GoofGoof]

I don't believe that we can sustain large-scale mandatory mask-wearing with the reasoning that playing at wearing masks is better than no mask at all.

We haven't been out much since March, but I recently went to a hair salon where employees and customers were wearing masks. Three women were sitting 6 feet apart from each other with their masks pulled down talking loudly to heard over the background noise while people walked between them.

At an electrical supply store, most people were wearing those blue disposable masks. Almost every person wearing glasses wore the mask under their nose, presumably to prevent their glasses from fogging up. Two customers had lowered their masks in order to talk to an employee.

For the record, I don't doubt that at this point, widespread mask-wearing is the right thing to do because of how quickly the virus is spreading, how devastating it can be to some people, and because there is no cure or vaccine. My hope, though, is that mask-wearing will be evaluated from time to time in terms of how much good it actually does (in practice, not theory) given how the masks are being worn. If people are wearing masks around their necks or hanging off one ear, what incentive is there to ever end the practice? I guess we can just go WDW as planned and use the masks for show.

In almost every case, the studies showing that masks are effective in stopping the spread of the virus do not say what the headlines indicate. Almost all are done in hospitals or medical settings using better quality masks that are properly worn, and they all evaluate masks in combination with other measures. Yet when I talk to people, or see some of the posts here, some seem to think that masks are a highly effective force-field against the virus and that they're at great risk of death if they walk past someone not wearing one.

We can agree to disagree on this.

It’s not “playing at it“ of “for show“. Wearing masks helps, even if they aren’t worn by everyone or worn correctly 100% of the time. Even if your nose is out and your mouth is still covered, not the best, but still that’s better than nothing. It makes no sense to me to say if everyone doesn’t wear the masks 100% of the time and wear them correctly than we should just get rid of them all together. Just because some people can’t or won’t follow the rules doesn’t mean the rules should just be removed.

I get that people don’t like wearing the masks. I don’t either. It’s a valid opinion and there’s no need to discredit the wearing of masks to support that position.

 

[lazyboy97o]

If the death rate is decreasing, it means that there are fewer cases. We're just finally testing for cases now. You don't need to be a genius to realize this.

No, because the virus is not evenly distributed across the population.

 

[Chi84]

We can agree to disagree on this.

It’s not “playing at it“ of “for show“. Wearing masks helps, even if they aren’t worn by everyone or worn correctly 100% of the time. Even if your nose is out and your mouth is still covered, not the best, but still that’s better than nothing. It makes no sense to me to say if everyone doesn’t wear the masks 100% of the time and wear them correctly than we should just get rid of them all together. Just because some people can’t or won’t follow the rules doesn’t mean the rules should just be removed.

I get that people don’t like wearing the masks. I don’t either. It’s a valid opinion and there’s no need to discredit the wearing of masks to support that position.

It's not just that "people don't like wearing masks" any more than it's "playing at it" or "for show." Even the WHO document recommending mask-wearing at this point lists several potential disadvantages, such as the potential to cause breathing difficulties, the potential for self-contamination, and the creation of a false sense of security. I'm not arguing that the requirement should be abandoned at this time, just that it be re-evaluated from time to time with a serious eye toward determining how much good it is doing in real life, not just in theory.

 

[Disney Analyst]

I don't want cancer, heart disease, ALS , MS , etc etc etc Honestly I would take coivd over any of these if I was forced to choose one .

That’s a ridiculous comparison. COVID can be prevented.

The only thing on your list that someone can perhaps prevent is heart disease.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Per video and photos in other threads - Universal and Disney Springs are ushering people through areas and not keeping people 6’ apart. Basically all the markers were just for show and social media, as typical in actual operation when there is a line it’s time for “use all available space”

Not impressed with what I’m seeing from either property. Especially as cases are going up in Florida.

 

[Horizons '83]

Per video and photos in other threads - Universal and Disney Springs are ushering people through areas and not keeping people 6’ apart. Basically all the markers were just for show and social media, as typical in actual operation when there is a line it’s time for “use all available space”

Not impressed with what I’m seeing from either property. Especially as cases are going up in Florida.

Get used to seeing that, as crowds start coming back it will get pretty bad. There really isn’t much you can do but not go if you aren’t liking or not comfortable with the parks at this point.

 

[WDWTrojan]

I don't believe that we can sustain large-scale mandatory mask-wearing with the reasoning that playing at wearing masks is better than no mask at all.

We haven't been out much since March, but I recently went to a hair salon where employees and customers were wearing masks. Three women were sitting 6 feet apart from each other with their masks pulled down talking loudly to heard over the background noise while people walked between them.

At an electrical supply store, most people were wearing those blue disposable masks. Almost every person wearing glasses wore the mask under their nose, presumably to prevent their glasses from fogging up. Two customers had lowered their masks in order to talk to an employee.

For the record, I don't doubt that at this point, widespread mask-wearing is the right thing to do because of how quickly the virus is spreading, how devastating it can be to some people, and because there is no cure or vaccine. My hope, though, is that mask-wearing will be evaluated from time to time in terms of how much good it actually does (in practice, not theory) given how the masks are being worn. If people are wearing masks around their necks or hanging off one ear, what incentive is there to ever end the practice? I guess we can just go WDW as planned and use the masks for show.

In almost every case, the studies showing that masks are effective in stopping the spread of the virus do not say what the headlines indicate. Almost all are done in hospitals or medical settings using better quality masks that are properly worn, and they all evaluate masks in combination with other measures. Yet when I talk to people, or see some of the posts here, some seem to think that masks are a highly effective force-field against the virus and that they're at great risk of death if they walk past someone not wearing one.

Now that we know pre-symptomatic people pose the greatest risk of spreading the virus and that it is largely spread by aerosolized droplets, wearing a mask does a relatively effective job at keeping people from spraying those droplets around. So while masks aren’t 100% at preventing infection, they do a decent job of preventing spread of your infection to others.

Even if mask wearing cuts the infection chances down 50% why on earth wouldn’t anyone support that? It’s like saying speed limits only reduce traffic fatalities by half so why bother.

 

[Chi84]

Now that we know pre-symptomatic people pose the greatest risk of spreading the virus and that it is largely spread by aerosolized droplets, wearing a mask does a relatively effective job at keeping people from spraying those droplets around. So while masks aren’t 100% at preventing infection, they do a decent job of preventing spread of your infection to others.

Even if mask wearing cuts the infection chances down 50% why on earth wouldn’t anyone support that? It’s like saying speed limits only reduce traffic fatalities by half so why bother.

If mask-wearing cuts the infection chances down 50% I wholeheartedly support it and believe it should be strictly enforced. Where did you see that number?

 

[oceanbreeze77]

Per video and photos in other threads - Universal and Disney Springs are ushering people through areas and not keeping people 6’ apart. Basically all the markers were just for show and social media, as typical in actual operation when there is a line it’s time for “use all available space”

Not impressed with what I’m seeing from either property. Especially as cases are going up in Florida.

then let them deal with the consequences of bad press.

I don't think the theme parks realize just how hard its going to be to maintain the restrictions that keep people safe, which is why I believe it was far too early to open the parks up.

 

[Rider]

If mask-wearing cuts the infection chances down 50% I wholeheartedly support it and believe it should be strictly enforced. Where did you see that number?

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspa.2020.0376

 

[DisneyDebRob]

then let them deal with the consequences of bad press.

I don't think the theme parks realize just how hard its going to be to maintain the restrictions that keep people safe, which is why I believe it was far too early to open the parks up.

I agree. It is to early. They can’t maintain the restrictions and I also believe they know they can’t. Happened with Shanghai. The beautifully done video of what they are going to do with social distancing. Lasted 2 weeks before the people were basically on top of each other for the parade and in lines. Nothing was done. Happened at the Springs. First week was great by all reports but now your getting pictures of people not wearing masks and from the 3 reports I saw, they weren’t being told to put them on. Of course these reports may have been one sided or they didn’t see the cm’s tell them but it is becoming more lax. Now the big parks are due to open. Probably will be enforced again for a week or two then you will see it little by little go away. I hope I’m wrong but there’s already a pattern forming.

It will be interesting to see what UNI looks like in a few weeks. I just don’t think they will allocate,Disney and UNI that much as time goes on to make sure everyone is behaving.

 

[celluloid]

then let them deal with the consequences of bad press.

I don't think the theme parks realize just how hard its going to be to maintain the restrictions that keep people safe, which is why I believe it was far too early to open the parks up.

The parks have done an amazing job with the fact that it is impossible and of course, a lot less fun for many. A lot of these twitter videos are framed innaporpriately, such as the Hagrids one that was floating around. The Team Member was actually enforcing things for safety precautions to get people to spaces that are apart, not instigating them to get closer as the personw ho took the video was trying to find. We don't need some doing things perfectly, we need as many as possible trying their best imperfectly. That is how change happens.
Whenever things open, cases are always going to go up. There will be spikes and valleys. The treatment and death rate with the severity will need to be studied as we go on.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Now that we know pre-symptomatic people pose the greatest risk of spreading the virus and that it is largely spread by aerosolized droplets, wearing a mask does a relatively effective job at keeping people from spraying those droplets around. So while masks aren’t 100% at preventing infection, they do a decent job of preventing spread of your infection to others.

Even if mask wearing cuts the infection chances down 50% why on earth wouldn’t anyone support that? It’s like saying speed limits only reduce traffic fatalities by half so why bother.

Ah CDC recommendation BINGO, I love this game. Let’s see what recommendation the CDC pulls out of the basket next week. An unrelated question. What does the CDC say about drinking coffee this week? Good? Bad? Should I check back next week?

 

[oceanbreeze77]

The parks have done an amazing job with the fact that it is impossible and of course, a lot less fun for many. A lot of these twitter videos are framed innaporpriately, such as the Hagrids one that was floating around. The Team Member was actually enforcing things for safety precautions to get people to spaces that are apart, not instigating them to get closer as the personw ho took the video was trying to find. We don't need some doing things perfectly, we need as many as possible trying their best imperfectly. That is how change happens.
Whenever things open, cases are always going to go up. There will be spikes and valleys. The treatment and death rate with the severity will need to be studied as we go on.

Yes, in the beginning, I was impressed, but my point is people will become careless. Not necessarily employees, but guests and yes, maybe some employees. Once people get careless about enforcing things because "ah, its no biggie," then a problem arises.

I agree that things won't be done perfectly, but for companies like Disney and Universal, its important to be as perfect as possible.

 

[oceanbreeze77]

I agree. It is to early. They can’t maintain the restrictions and I also believe they know they can’t. Happened with Shanghai. The beautifully done video of what they are going to do with social distancing. Lasted 2 weeks before the people were basically on top of each other for the parade and in lines. Nothing was done. Happened at the Springs. First week was great by all reports but now your getting pictures of people not wearing masks and from the 3 reports I saw, they weren’t being told to put them on. Of course these reports may have been one sided or they didn’t see the cm’s tell them but it is becoming more lax. Now the big parks are due to open. Probably will be enforced again for a week or two then you will see it little by little go away. I hope I’m wrong but there’s already a pattern forming.

It will be interesting to see what UNI looks like in a few weeks. I just don’t think they will allocate,Disney and UNI that much as time goes on to make sure everyone is behaving.

I say it again, I will not be surprised if Disney pulls the plug on reopening.

 

[lilypgirl]

That’s a ridiculous comparison. COVID can be prevented.

The only thing on your list that someone can perhaps prevent is heart disease.

If by prevented you mean staying In your house until there is a vaccine than like I have said a million times I will take my chances.

 

[Disney Analyst]

If by prevented you mean staying In your house until there is a vaccine than like I have said a million times I will take my chances.

And that’s your right until officials decide that we need stricter measures again.

But the conversation was about how if the death rate is dropping we don’t really need to worry, and that’s just false. Many people presented data that shows the ramifications of this disease, for those who don’t die.

There is still much that is not known yet about those who have had COVID, perhaps not as severely, what is their outlook 5 years from now?

Your post about various other diseases we can’t prevent added nothing to the discussion, and was a straw man.

 

[robhedin]

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspa.2020.0376

You might want to re-read the article again. It's interesting, but it's just a simple model and not based on actual experimentation. Even setting that aside, their conclusions that call out quantified reductions are based on N95 respirators being worn by everyone:

With a COVID-19 R0 of 2.2 and for scenarios where facemasks were worn only after onset of symptoms, the median R0 fell below 1, if at least 95% of the population wore facemasks (with an efficacy similar to that of N95 respirators designed to achieve a very close facial fit and highly efficient filtration of 0.3 µm airborne particles).​

They go on to say:

Although our modelling framework demonstrates that, under certain conditions, facemask adoption by entire populations would have a significant impact on reducing COVID-19 spread, there are additional human factors and obstacles that may prevent the implementation of this policy or a directive being issued at a governmental level. The most important of these is probably the perceived lack of availability of efficient facemasks (N95 respirators) and the view that these should and must be reserved for front-line medical workers.​

They then go on to talk about pragmatically using makeshift masks, but provide no real data on the efficacy of those masks for prolonged use.

Still, it's an interesting read. Thanks for pointing it out.