News Coco Boat Ride Coming to Disney California Adventure

[mickEblu]

So what team do we want working on this ride? Obviously don’t want the TBA team to touch it with a ten foot pole. The MMRR team can stay home too. Who do we want then? The Avengers Campus team? Does Disney have any of their institutional knowledge bearing imagineers left or did they all leave during the pandemic? Considering what we know about the Disney company the last few years I have to ask. Do we believe Disney hired the best available candidates over the last few years or did other factors take precedent? Perhaps they should temper expectations and not throw out comparisons to Haunted Mansion and POTC. Do they have the personnel to pull off projects like this and the Avatar project.

 

[Gusey]

So what team do we want working on this ride? Obviously don’t want the TBA team to touch it with a ten foot pole. The MMRR team can stay home too. Who do we want then? The Avengers Campus team? Does Disney have any of their institutional knowledge bearing imagineers left or did they all leave during the pandemic? Considering what we know about the Disney company the last few years I have to ask. Do we believe Disney hired the best available candidates over the last few years or did other factors take precedent? Perhaps they should temper expectations and not throw out comparisons to Haunted Mansion and POTC. Do they have the personnel to pull off projects like this and the Avatar project.

I think we've seen time and time again, that all Imagineers have their great projects, and also have their bad projects. for example, Tony Baxter had Indiana Jones, Rocket Rods and Tarzan's Treehouse open within 5 years of each, all to different degrees of success.

That said, the recent "universal" successes since 2020 (apart from the off complaint from the same people) has been Snow White's Enchanted Wish, Cosmic Rewind, Adventureland Treehouse, Journey of Water and Country Bear Musical Jamboree, most of which successfully incorporate animatronic/kinetic elements (Cosmic Rewind being the exception but the ride itself is an innovative coaster). As long as the Imagineers assigned to this attraction give us the Animatronics and kinetic energy they promised, it should fall under the great projects category.

 

[Professortango1]

I think we've seen time and time again, that all Imagineers have their great projects, and also have their bad projects. for example, Tony Baxter had Indiana Jones, Rocket Rods and Tarzan's Treehouse open within 5 years of each, all to different degrees of success.

That said, the recent "universal" successes since 2020 (apart from the off complaint from the same people) has been Snow White's Enchanted Wish, Cosmic Rewind, Adventureland Treehouse, Journey of Water and Country Bear Musical Jamboree, most of which successfully incorporate animatronic/kinetic elements (Cosmic Rewind being the exception but the ride itself is an innovative coaster). As long as the Imagineers assigned to this attraction give us the Animatronics and kinetic energy they promised, it should fall under the great projects category.

Indiana Jones and Tarzan's Treehouse were both great, in my opinion. I loved the facelift to the tree and while I didn't love the plastic figures, I also figured they were there because there wasn't the budget/bandwidth to push for the figures me currently have in place. Rocket Rods was also a ride that I did enjoy. Was it perfect? Heck no! But as a kid, I found it a ton of fun are FAR FAR FAR better than Peoplemover and the Tron Speed Tunnel which we laughed at openly.

Snow White's Enchanted Wish is a disjointed mess with a finale that comes out of nowhere. The truncated nature and trying to balance the scary with the love story gives me tonal whiplash and makes the attraction lack character and the ending unsatisfying compared to what was there prior. I also think the mirror under a bridge exposition dump is one of the laziest things modern Imagineering has done. "If we are changing this scene, should we tear our the old set and put in a new set?" "Nah, just put the screen under the bridge and call it a day."

Cosmic Rewind is a good coaster with a terrible Guardians overlay. It doesn't fit Epcot and it doesn't give us fun MCU vibes. Its an upgraded Ghost Galaxy with Guardians characters via screens in the queue and the end of the ride. We go from riding through dinosaur infested swamps to a projection of actors waving at us. Yay.

Adventureland Treehouse is pretty good. It's not as visually appealing as Tarzan, but I do appreciate the animated segments within it.

Journey of Water is an okay walk-through area, but not really an attraction. Its the jumping fountains with 2020 money and craftsmanship. With an IP shoved in there since its 2020+.

I haven't seen the new Country Bears, so I cannot judge. I don't like the idea of random Disney songs like Whole New World, but I will wait to see if it does actually work better before making that conclusion.

For me, the last GREAT Disney attractions that we got were Rodger Rabbit in 94 and Indiana Jones in 95. I haven't experience Flight of Passage yet, so I hope it lives up to the hype. But people also love Soarin and I think it is incredibly lazy and underwhelming. So, we'll see. Actually, Tough to Be a Bug would be the latest new attraction that I was amazed by, and that was 98. So, I guess I haven't really felt that Disney magic as a whole after the 90's.

 

[chadwpalm]

So what team do we want working on this ride? Obviously don’t want the TBA team to touch it with a ten foot pole. The MMRR team can stay home too. Who do we want then? The Avengers Campus team? Does Disney have any of their institutional knowledge bearing imagineers left or did they all leave during the pandemic? Considering what we know about the Disney company the last few years I have to ask. Do we believe Disney hired the best available candidates over the last few years or did other factors take precedent? Perhaps they should temper expectations and not throw out comparisons to Haunted Mansion and POTC. Do they have the personnel to pull off projects like this and the Avatar project.

Should they use the Fantasy Springs team to do Coco? I'd be okay if they used either the Shanghai Pirates team or Scott Trowbridge's team from RotR to do Avatar.

 

[Architectural Guinea Pig]

For me, the last GREAT Disney attractions that we got were Rodger Rabbit in 94 and Indiana Jones in 95. I haven't experience Flight of Passage yet, so I hope it lives up to the hype. But people also love Soarin and I think it is incredibly lazy and underwhelming. So, we'll see. Actually, Tough to Be a Bug would be the latest new attraction that I was amazed by, and that was 98. So, I guess I haven't really felt that Disney magic as a whole after the 90's.

Radiator Springs isn’t impressive? Journey to the Center of the Earth?

 

[Professortango1]

Radiator Springs isn’t impressive? Journey to the Center of the Earth?

Tokyo I always put in their own category because of the ownership and how they push for excellence whereas Disney doesn't with their own parks.

RSR is a great ride. I forgot about that one. DCA's one Disney quality E-Ticket.

 

[chadwpalm]

Radiator Springs isn’t impressive? Journey to the Center of the Earth?

Or Rise of the Resistance? I can understand people not liking it because they don't like Galaxy's Edge in general or don't think it belongs in Disneyland, but as an attraction and experience I find it quite impressive.

 

[Disney Analyst]

Or Rise of the Resistance? I can understand people not liking it because they don't like Galaxy's Edge in general or don't think it belongs in Disneyland, but as an attraction and experience I find it quite impressive.

There’s been plenty of great attractions over the years, globally.

It’s not a matter of if they can, it’s when they are allowed.

 

[mickEblu]

I think we've seen time and time again, that all Imagineers have their great projects, and also have their bad projects. for example, Tony Baxter had Indiana Jones, Rocket Rods and Tarzan's Treehouse open within 5 years of each, all to different degrees of success.

That said, the recent "universal" successes since 2020 (apart from the off complaint from the same people) has been Snow White's Enchanted Wish, Cosmic Rewind, Adventureland Treehouse, Journey of Water and Country Bear Musical Jamboree, most of which successfully incorporate animatronic/kinetic elements (Cosmic Rewind being the exception but the ride itself is an innovative coaster). As long as the Imagineers assigned to this attraction give us the Animatronics and kinetic energy they promised, it should fall under the great projects category.

Most of the recent projects Post 2019 have turned out lackluster. You have a couple exceptions but then you also have projects that turned out downright awful like TBA. That’s the concern I have. The pandemic didn’t help but I think we have seen enough to wonder if these imagineers have the talent their predecessors did.

 

[mickEblu]

Should they use the Fantasy Springs team to do Coco? I'd be okay if they used either the Shanghai Pirates team or Scott Trowbridge's team from RotR to do Avatar.

Aside from Trowbridge (who made some questionable choices with GE) are the members from that team or the Shangai POTC team still around? Shanghai POTC was years ago. I’d be good with the Fantasy Springs Team but can they achieve the same without OLC and their willingness to spend? Not that I think the Fantasy Springs rides are perfect.

 

[MistaDee]

Recent project teams I'd like to see Imagineering pull from for Coco:

Mystic Manor
Rise of the Resistance
Runaway Railway
Shanghai Pirates
Tokyo Frozen + Tangled

Beauty and the Beast - transformation effect for Miguel?

 

[Loose Pebble]

When I think about the Coco boat ride concept art, I see a huge party with music and dancing. One might even call it a celebration. So who better to tackle this than the team that worked on Epcot's World Celebration? Let's bring Zach Riddley and his instagram back! (/s/s/s/s in case it wasn't obvious)

 

[Professortango1]

Or Rise of the Resistance? I can understand people not liking it because they don't like Galaxy's Edge in general or don't think it belongs in Disneyland, but as an attraction and experience I find it quite impressive.

Rise has great bones, but the whole leaves me wanting more. The shuttle/Star Destroyer queue is great, but the starkness of the halls, the unmoving cannons, and the lack of any physical Stormtroopers leave me a smidge underwhelmed. Its good, but it doesn't blow me away like Indy did or Roger Rabbit did.

 

[MistaDee]

Rise has great bones, but the whole leaves me wanting more. The shuttle/Star Destroyer queue is great, but the starkness of the halls, the unmoving cannons, and the lack of any physical Stormtroopers leave me a smidge underwhelmed. Its good, but it doesn't blow me away like Indy did or Roger Rabbit did.

Are you saying nothing since Indy has been a 10/10 mind blown experience? I can understand that, but I think Tower of Terror, Radiator Springs, Rise and Runaway Railway have all been at least an 8/10 experience. There are some stark halls in Indy too after all

In terms of how Coco might change the Pier, I wonder if the current Plaza de la Familia offers some clues as to how a permanent Coco footprint might be implemented.

If our suspicions are correct, and Paradise Gardens + Goofy's Sky School might be saved for future expansion it seems like a permanent Plaza de la Familia might be a sensible medium-term solution to capitalize on the food, merchandise and meet and greet opportunities that Coco presents.

With this area being a very important future connection between DCA and its future Simba lot, I'm very curious to see what its long term fate might be. Presumably they'll need a little more space to allow for crowds deciding whether to cross over or not

 

[Professortango1]

Are you saying nothing since Indy has been a 10/10 mind blown experience? I can understand that, but I think Tower of Terror, Radiator Springs, Rise and Runaway Railway have all been at least an 8/10 experience. There are some stark halls in Indy too after all

Tower was one of my favourite attractions, but I didn't count that as our DCA version was a reworking of the pre-existing attraction from 94. I did really enjoy the improvements they made to the newer ride portion.

I previously acknowledged that I overlooked RSR and think its high quality. Runaway Railway has a great queue and ride system and a mediocre ride experience. As a D-ticket, it's not bad. As an E-ticket, it falls short for me. Too much of us bouncing around big empty rooms without any signature moments within them. The Cowboy and Carnival scene look cool, but I don't feel like I see anything fun happening.

Indy has some stark areas, but they are typically unlit. Every inch of set that we see looks pretty detailed, even when it is 3-dimensional painting on a 2-D surface. I never look around Indy and think "they should really put something in that open spot."

 

[denyuntilcaught]

Indy has some stark areas, but they are typically unlit. Every inch of set that we see looks pretty detailed, even when it is 3-dimensional painting on a 2-D surface. I never look around Indy and think "they should really put something in that open spot."

Funny, since I think the tunnel immediately prior to the dart room is one of the original examples of "they should really put something here," haha.

 

[MistaDee]

Tower was one of my favourite attractions, but I didn't count that as our DCA version was a reworking of the pre-existing attraction from 94. I did really enjoy the improvements they made to the newer ride portion.

Yeah totally fair

I previously acknowledged that I overlooked RSR and think its high quality. Runaway Railway has a great queue and ride system and a mediocre ride experience. As a D-ticket, it's not bad. As an E-ticket, it falls short for me. Too much of us bouncing around big empty rooms without any signature moments within them. The Cowboy and Carnival scene look cool, but I don't feel like I see anything fun happening.

I get where you're coming from - I think that sort of distinction between a D versus E ticket experience will be very interesting with regards to Coco, Avengers Infinity, and the Avatar boat ride. I guess there's a chance it's really only Avatar that can deliver that Indiana Jones level of show

Indy has some stark areas, but they are typically unlit. Every inch of set that we see looks pretty detailed, even when it is 3-dimensional painting on a 2-D surface. I never look around Indy and think "they should really put something in that open spot."

Yeah plus with the effects it used to have a lot of the set was covered in fog or other elements that have been deemed operationally unsustainable

 

[Mr. Sullivan]

Do we believe Disney hired the best available candidates over the last few years or did other factors take precedent?

What other factors are you referring to?

I think they hired people who are plenty capable, they're just not letting those people off the leash.

At the end of the day, I really think we kinda need to stop placing the blame for things squarely on the foot of Imagineers, many of whom we know are somewhat green to the company and learning as they go and yet are proving that they can think big. They're just not often allowed to follow through on that big thinking. I've very little doubt in my mind that there's a ton of talented, creative people within the division that are trying their damndest but do often find themselves hampered by the decision making and thought process of those higher than they are.

I really do not in any capacity question the ability or skill of the actual Imagineers who're working on things. I question the thought process of the people handling the money and directing the resources. And I say that as someone who has greatly enjoyed a great deal of what has come from Disney in the last decade. I even quite like TBA, even though I don't find it perfect (but then, I didn't find it's predecessor perfect either for many of the same reasons). But even I can observe and notice where things got held back of squeezed for reasons of business.

Not everything is going to be a winner. The revered and adored Imagineers of years past are so often heralded as having spotless portfolios, but they don't. They all had their fair share of misfires. But they had a lot of freedom to move around and try things, and that's what led to their greatest achievements. I don't think a lot of modern Imagineers have been given that same freedom, and as such I don't think it's fair to speak so negatively of them so continuously.

I don't think there's any shortage of creativity, ingenuity, and ambition in Imagineering. I think there's a lack of consideration for the Imagineers' skills when it comes time to actually get stuff off the ground. I think of it sort of like the theater kids at a high school. They're working their off to do something special but the administration will never give them any support because they'd rather focus on the sports teams as that's where their money comes from.

Imagineers are the theater kids, the mandates and easy ways out are the sports teams.

 

[Disney Irish]

Interesting @TimeDuck. Maybe they got cold feet on that location since Inside Out 2 made over a billion dollars?

Care to expand on what you're alluding to here?

 

[mickEblu]

Care to expand on what you're alluding to here?

He deleted his post so perhaps I shouldn’t? Guessing he decided he wasn’t comfortable sharing that info. But you u can probably figure it out from my post you responded to.