CNBC Article - Theme park economy on a great ride

[afar28]

But some Disney fans act like they're E-tickets...

Anyone who thinks a meet n greet could be an E ticket is insane

 

[Ignohippo]

Disney is spending money, to think they are not is ludicrous.

To say Disney is under bad management or blaming TDO for just about anything is completely ignorant. How does a company that is one of the hottest stocks around have bad management?

Universal on the other hand is under a delusion they can compete with Disney. First, they will never compete with them. Never. One, Disney has a 20 or 30 year head start on them in Florida. Florida needs Disney more than they need Universal as Disney drives the economy. If Universal packed their bags and left Florida, reality says no one will notice from an economic standpoint, if Disney left it would be catastrophic.

Second, Universal is hampered by the fact the don't have the same amount of land, and they won't be able to buy the land they want. If it was possible, they would have done it by now.

Third, Universal will always have a complete lack of total immersion surrounding their parks. IOA is a perfect example as when walking through the park to me it feels like a little better themed Six Flags. Viewing parking lots on coasters takes me back to the real world instead of magically transporting me away from it.

Fourth and final, Universal has to keep spending money to keep people interested, once they stop spending and rest on their laurels, they will quickly lose market share right back to Disney who can rest on their laurels due to having a far superior product. Don't kid yourself, the cash will stop at Universal eventually, from a business standpoint its inevitable.

But what's really lost in this whole topic is the fact Disney still kills it year in year out, DHS and AK will more than likely top 10 million each this year. Without spending a dime on new big attractions.


Jimmy Thick- What more needs to be said?

No, Uni will never compare.

They will just continue to increase their attendance and revenue by 20-30% each year and continue to errode the time and money guests spend at WDW. Sounds like the right business model to me.

The point is, if WDW would add new attractions at even half the rate Uni is currently doing, they wouldn't even have to worry about Uni at all. Not one iota.

And instead of attendance up 1 - 2%, WDW could be up 10% (probably double the revenue of Uni) - which is a heck of a lot of money left lying around when you consider all of the money that also brings to hotels, shopping, etc.

Instead, they're resting on their laurels and their parks get more and more stale every day. As I've said before, even your small "hometown" park adds a new attraction every year. It doesn't have to be an E-ticket, but Disney should be adding something significant to each park every year in order to keep them from becoming so stale.

Heck, even Busch Gardens is kicking their in new attractions.

 

[rioriz]

Disney rulzs.....Uni droolz

 

[t3techcom18]

Many of the points I wanted to address here has already been addressed. Much kudos to you @lebeau and @Ignohippo.

Since many of you, however, are not posting some statistics...

Yes, attendance keeps rising but not from where you think. Attendance is rising due to first-timers and internationals, who will most likely only come here once or twice in their lifetime unless they have galleons saved in their bank (too soon?).

Where the attendance is declining is with locals and long-time visitors. WDW is, in essence, no longer catering to locals and long-time visitors, especially with a low visible ROI for consumers with a stale product, while Universal keeps developing new attractions on the same scale or better than Disney in certain cases, both creatively and technologically-speaking.

Now, many of you are gunna go, "But that's the whole point of WDW! DLR is primarily for locals! WDW is for first-time visitors!" *Buzzer sound* Nope. If a theme park knows what they're actually doing and not putting everything in the name of profit, they have to appease to BOTH first-time visitors AND locals. Why? Because, when it comes to slow seasons like right now, who keeps the money flowing? Who keeps the attractions running? Who keeps going through the parks like no tomorrow? LOCALS. When you hear locals saying Disney is getting boring and not worth the money based on nothing ever changing (remember folks: before FLE, the last big attraction built from scratch was EE and that's IF you call FLE 'big'; and yes, nothing ever changing includes ST and TT rehabs, as many locals and long-time visitors have said that, even if they're different now, it's still the same ride), something's very wrong. When was the last technologically advanced attraction that broke new ground at WDW? TT. Uni has come up with several since 98, with two others on the way.

I'm not gunna lie. There are some posters on here who are very negative for no actual reason and it bothers me; but what bothers me more honestly, are that there are plenty on here who refuse to look at things objectively and see the facts for themselves when it's in their face. Many complain that we point out so many issues in the parks and I'll just put this to an end in one simple sentence: If no one else says anything, who will?

 

[Captain Chaos]

Many of the points I wanted to address here has already been addressed. Much kudos to you @lebeau and @Ignohippo.

Since many of you, however, are not posting some statistics...

Yes, attendance keeps rising but not from where you think. Attendance is rising due to first-timers and internationals, who will most likely only come here once or twice in their lifetime unless they have galleons saved in their bank (too soon?).

Where the attendance is declining is with locals and long-time visitors. WDW is, in essence, no longer catering to locals and long-time visitors, especially with a low visible ROI for consumers with a stale product, Universal developing new attractions on the same scale or better than Disney in certain cases, both creatively and technologically-speaking.

Now, many of you are gunna go, "But that's the whole point of WDW! DLR is primarily for locals! WDW is for first-time visitors!" *Buzzer sound* Nope. If a theme park knows what they're actually doing and not putting everything in the name of profit, they have to appease BOTH first-time visitors AND locals. Why? Because, when it comes to slow seasons like right now, who keeps the money flowing? Who keeps the attractions running? Who keeps going through the parks like no tomorrow? LOCALS. When you hear locals going Disney is getting boring and not worth the money based on nothing ever changing (remember folks: before FLE, the last big attraction built from scratch was EE and that's IF you call FLE 'big'; and yes, nothing ever changing includes ST and TT rehabs, as many locals and long-time visitors have said that, even if they're different now, it's still the same ride). When was the last technologically advanced attraction that broke new ground at WDW? TT. Uni has come up with several since 98, with two others on the way.

I'm not gunna lie. There are some posters on here who are very negative for no actual reason and it bothers me; but what bothers me more honestly, are that there are plenty on here who refuse to look at things objectively and see the facts for themselves when it's in their face. Many complain that we point out so many issues in the parks and I'll just put this to an end in one simple sentence: If no one else says anything, who will?

 

[ParentsOf4]

Why so many people hang out of these boards 24/7 suggesting what they are talking about sucks so bad that everyone at TDO is an idiot is hard to believe too.

Why not find something that doesn't suck and hang out there for a bit?

Is it ironic that you are speaking of people logging in complaining about things that are broken or wrong at WDW, while rocking a Disco Yeti "Fix Me" avatar? Can someone call Alanis and figure out if that fits either the real definition or her definition of irony?

Once again, everybody together. People on these boards are fanatical about their love for Disney. If something is going wrong in their opinion, it is their right to voice that opinion. Most times folks with true love for a product are the ones that hold the microscope up closest and find it's flaws. People speak their opinions of what is right and what is wrong in hopes that somehow, someway, these things will be corrected or improved so that a product they love dearly can once again hold up to the standards they feel appropriate.

Yeah, what @sshindel said.

But also, let's face it, until WWOHP opened in 2010, Universal was at best a poor cousin of WDW. No one questioned WDW's superiority before then. Since then, it's been pretty much Uni with all the good stuff while WDW's greatest "accomplishment" has been to raise ticket prices another 25%. Do you feel like you're getting 25% more from WDW than you did in 2010?

Hey, I love WDW, I really do, but I'm tired of corporate Disney treating it like a bank account.

 

[Jimmy Thick]

Many complain that we point out so many issues in the parks and I'll just put this to an end in one simple sentence: If no one else says anything, who will?

To which people will respond:

" If you feel the parks are not what they could be and Disney is ruining WDW, why do you continue to go?"

Seriously, starting a grass root movement on the internet to an incredibly small sample size of people, who have absolutely no power in their own right, means absolutely nothing to Disney brass. Show them with your pocket book/wallet and then they can possibly get the message. I doubt it but anything is possible.

And staying at Universal one or two nights while spending 5 at Disney is a laughable ideology, you're still giving Disney thousands of dollars.

If people really want changes, if they really, really think Disney World is poorly managed people need to suck it up and stay away, keep your money or just go to Universal. It will save you money and the frustration of being disappointed at being inside Disney World.

I will continue to keep going and enjoying myself immensely. To me personally, its just a vacation.


Jimmy Thick- I can see it now, OCCUPY MAIN ST USA!!! FIGHT FOR NEW ATTRACTIONS!!!! * Chuckles *

 

[PhotoDave219]

Apparently everyone forgets the "Save Disney" movement of 2004 that resulted in a 40+% vote against Michael Eisner.

 

[ParentsOf4]

Disney is spending money, to think they are not is ludicrous.?

Definitely. But when Uni spends $265M for WWOHP while WDW spends $450M for NFL and over $2B for NextGen, can it honestly be said that Disney is spending wisely?

NFL's $450M has cannibalized attendance from DHS and DAK, making the World's most popular park even more crowded while DHS and DAK attendance (and revenue!) has suffered. Meanwhile, from a guest perspective, NextGen's $2B seems to have bought a new form of room key, a new form of theme park ticket, a new form of FastPass, and a new form of credit card.

To say Disney is under bad management or blaming TDO for just about anything is completely ignorant. How does a company that is one of the hottest stocks around have bad management?

Quoting from the most recent Disney earnings call:

"We continued to return capital to shareholders by repurchasing our stock during the third quarter. We repurchased 12.6 million shares for about 800 million dollars. Fiscal year to date, we have repurchased 57 million shares for 3.2 billion dollars."

Buying 57 million shares will help any stock.

 

[GoofGoof]

...but Despicable Me, a parade, and a nighttime show weren't enough to make a dent anyways... Transformers and Springfield are the turning point for USF - people will see them and go: I thought only Disney did stuff this good?

They don't "kill it"... without MK, they'd be equal to USF and IOA in attendance.

The kids of today are falling in love with Universal with all of their cool, relevant attractions (Harry Potter, Despicable Me, Transformers, etc) while Disney is expecting Mickey Mouse to draw the Facebook generation over and over and over. Nothing new but some higher ticket prices are real nice!!

25 years from now, I can see people having more of a fondness toward Universal in the theme park realm (Disney will always dominate in the movie department lol)

And I don't calling spending a billion dollars on Big Brother-style surveillance of guests "investment". Neither does a second copy of a flat ride or an "immersive, groundbreaking" meet and greet

25 years is a really long time. Physical property alone would restrict Universal from continuing the current pace for 25 years. Things change. Keep in mind that Universal's parent company makes a large portion of it's revenue from cable TV customers. Will cable TV even be around in 25 years? Based on everything we know Universal is knocking it out of the ballpark right now and has good projects planned for the next 5 years so we should enjoy the ride. Who can say what they will be doing in 10 years let alone 20 or 25. Look back to Disney in the 90s. They expanded with reckless abandon (it was amazing). Any fan back then assumed it would go on forever. It didn't.

 

[t3techcom18]

To which people will respond:

" If you feel the parks are not what they could be and Disney is ruining WDW, why do you continue to go?"

Because I believe in what the parks stand for and love the place dearly. I KNOW they can do better because they HAVE done better.

Everyone here knows what WDW is, knows what they're good at, knows what they could be, knows what shouldn't be and knows what must not because of that very reason.

 

[Jimmy Thick]

Definitely. But when Uni spends $265M for WWOHP while WDW spends $450M for NFL and over $2B for NextGen, can it honestly be said that Disney is spending wisely?

NFL's $450M has cannibalized attendance from DHS and DAK, making the World's most popular park even more crowded while DHS and DAK attendance (and revenue!) has suffered. Meanwhile, from a guest perspective, NextGen's $2B seems to have bought a new form of room key, a new form of theme park ticket, a new form of FastPass, and a new form of credit card.

Um, show me some factual proof DHS or AK as suffered attendance wise and they are losing revenue? A statement like that must have some kind of verification.

Who says guests don't like NextGen when it hasn't even rolled out in full yet? Where has Disney disclosed just what NextGen fully encompasses? NextGen is a technology that will become the industry standard within years of full implementation, don't believe the negativity.

Quoting from the most recent Disney earnings call:

"We continued to return capital to shareholders by repurchasing our stock during the third quarter. We repurchased 12.6 million shares for about 800 million dollars. Fiscal year to date, we have repurchased 57 million shares for 3.2 billion dollars."

Buying 57 million shares will help any stock.

LOL!!!
LOL!!!
LOL!!!

I shall respectfully assume you don't know why companies buy back stock.


Jimmy Thick- Disney spending wisely, um yeah, I'll put my eggs in those baskets.

 

[Jimmy Thick]

Because I believe in what the parks stand for and love the place dearly. I KNOW they can do better because they HAVE done better.

Everyone here knows what WDW is, knows what they're good at, knows what they could be, knows what shouldn't be and knows what must not because of that very reason.

That's a cop out.

By continuing to spend money in Disney parks you show people who make delicate decisions there is no problem, and they shall continue to sail the ship smoothly along.

For example, and I think I have wrote this before.

If I own a pizza place and you visit it and like the pies and all of a sudden I change things and you don't like the pies but you continue to buy the pies why should I change the way I make my pies? Sure you can tell me you don't like the pies but if I keep counting your money you spend to buy my pies, I can honestly care less.

You're still buying my pies.

Jimmy Thick- Modern corporations are revenue driven, keep buying my pies.

 

[ParentsOf4]

I shall respectfully assume you don't know why companies buy back stock.

I know why my company buys back company stock. Because our bonuses and stock options are directly tied to stock price.

I also know what we publically state when buy back stock.

I wonder why Iger would be buying back stock.

 

[GoofGoof]

Um, show me some factual proof DHS or AK as suffered attendance wise and they are losing revenue? A statement like that must have some kind of verification.

Who says guests don't like NextGen when it hasn't even rolled out in full yet? Where has Disney disclosed just what NextGen fully encompasses? NextGen is a technology that will become the industry standard within years of full implementation, don't believe the negativity.



LOL!!!
LOL!!!
LOL!!!

I shall respectfully assume you don't know why companies buy back stock.


Jimmy Thick- Disney spending wisely, um yeah, I'll put my eggs in those baskets.

The scanners and bands are probably going to be popular and could become industry standard. I don't know about the tracking and datamining aspect. I think it appeals to TWDC since it is a large diversified company and may appeal to Uni/Comcast, but beyond those players I can't see it having as much value to a smaller theme park only company.

 

[SJN1279]

Disney has gotten quality new attractions and updates in the last two years:
2011-Star Tours 2.0, Disney Junior, Wild Life Animal Trek, Haunted Mansion update
2012-Test Track 2.0, Legend of Jack Sparrow, Agent P World Showcase Adventure, Sorceror's of the MK, and New Fantasyland complete with an amazing themed restaurant, and the first new dark ride in the Magic Kingdom in a very long time(not a perfect ride, but still very good). New Fantasyland also increased MK capacity quite a bit to boot.

Not to mention all the enhanced/interactive queue projects that have happened over the past two years

In 2014, we are getting a new very well themed coaster and a brand new parade for MK. It isn't all doom and gloom. Just because something hasn't been officially announced for 2015 and beyond, doesn't mean it isn't going to happen. Also don't forget Disney Springs in 2016.....

 

[GoofGoof]

Disney has gotten quality new attractions and updates in the last two years:
2011-Star Tours 2.0, Disney Junior, Wild Life Animal Trek, Haunted Mansion update
2012-Test Track 2.0, Legend of Jack Sparrow, Agent P World Showcase Adventure, Sorceror's of the MK, and New Fantasyland complete with an amazing themed restaurant, and the first new dark ride in the Magic Kingdom in a very long time(not a perfect ride, but still very good). New Fantasyland also increased MK capacity quite a bit to boot.

Not to mention all the enhanced/interactive queue projects that have happened over the past two years

In 2014, we are getting a new very well themed coaster and a brand new parade for MK. It isn't all doom and gloom. Just because something hasn't been officially announced for 2015 and beyond, doesn't mean it isn't going to happen. Also don't forget Disney Springs in 2016.....

I tend to be a glass half full person too. These aren't all major additions, but I support any enhancement that adds to my experience. Don't get me wrong I see the problems too, but I give credit when credit is due.

 

[nor'easter]

That's a cop out.

By continuing to spend money in Disney parks you show people who make delicate decisions there is no problem, and they shall continue to sail the ship smoothly along.

For example, and I think I have wrote this before.

If I own a pizza place and you visit it and like the pies and all of a sudden I change things and you don't like the pies but you continue to buy the pies why should I change the way I make my pies? Sure you can tell me you don't like the pies but if I keep counting your money you spend to buy my pies, I can honestly care less.

You're still buying my pies.

Jimmy Thick- Modern corporations are revenue driven, keep buying my pies.

There's a message here somewhere...Don't buy a pie from a thick pie man?

 

[Ignohippo]

That's a cop out.

By continuing to spend money in Disney parks you show people who make delicate decisions there is no problem, and they shall continue to sail the ship smoothly along.

For example, and I think I have wrote this before.

If I own a pizza place and you visit it and like the pies and all of a sudden I change things and you don't like the pies but you continue to buy the pies why should I change the way I make my pies? Sure you can tell me you don't like the pies but if I keep counting your money you spend to buy my pies, I can honestly care less.

You're still buying my pies.

Jimmy Thick- Modern corporations are revenue driven, keep buying my pies.

Because people will stop coming if you only offer pepperoni. At some point, you have to add to the menu.

 

[Ignohippo]

Disney has gotten quality new attractions and updates in the last two years:
2011-Star Tours 2.0, Disney Junior, Wild Life Animal Trek, Haunted Mansion update
2012-Test Track 2.0, Legend of Jack Sparrow, Agent P World Showcase Adventure, Sorceror's of the MK, and New Fantasyland complete with an amazing themed restaurant, and the first new dark ride in the Magic Kingdom in a very long time(not a perfect ride, but still very good). New Fantasyland also increased MK capacity quite a bit to boot.

Not to mention all the enhanced/interactive queue projects that have happened over the past two years

In 2014, we are getting a new very well themed coaster and a brand new parade for MK. It isn't all doom and gloom. Just because something hasn't been officially announced for 2015 and beyond, doesn't mean it isn't going to happen. Also don't forget Disney Springs in 2016.....

- Everything except the FLE? Yawn.
- The FLE? Too little, way too late.
(CircusLand? Funny how no one even mentions because it's such an abominable waste of money and space.)
- Updates? Updating a horribly out-of-date attraction is great, but it isn't a "new" experience. Keeping your product up-to-date is something that should be expected in any business.
- Disney Springs? They aren't doing that for our benefit. They're doing it for more revenue (which of course is why they should do any expansion). Let's not forget that PI has been sitting as a ghost town for the past 5 years.

I'll repeat what I typed earlier, even your local hometown theme park gets a new attraction every year. It doesn't have to be an E-ticket, but each of the WDW parks should get something new and substantial each year.