CNBC Article - Theme park economy on a great ride

[doctornick]

I do agree. Most if the people who always talk about the bad aspects of Disney never talk about the good aspects and tend to over exaggerate the bad aspects

I commented in one Universal thread on here about my parent's experience in their parks. Based on what people say here, you would think they would have been absolutely blown away by Universal and vowed never to return to Disney. Instead, their reaction basically "it was nice, but Disney is better". They liked it enough that they will go back in the future -- as a 2 day add on to a larger Disney trip, which would be the real motivator of them going to Florida. They felt Universal needed to have more relaxing rides, more entertainment (like parades/fireworks) and more total attractions in each park. Again, they liked it, they thought it was comparable to Disney, they just weren't blown away the way that people on these boards make it seem they they would.

Now, I think there is a legit concern that some people will be spending fewer days at WDW and opting for Universal instead on those days. But the idea that people are going to en masse going to Universal instead of Disney or not go to centra Florida at all doesn't realy hold water to me. I think we are truly years and even 1-2 decades away from Disney losing a significant amount of their total annual guests -- plenty of time for any tradectory to change, especially with new offerings like Star Wars and Avatar planned.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Is it ironic that you are speaking of people logging in complaining about things that are broken or wrong at WDW, while rocking a Disco Yeti "Fix Me" avatar?

Very ironic indeed.

 

[doctornick]

Once again, everybody together. People on these boards are fanatical about their love for Disney. If something is going wrong in their opinion, it is their right to voice that opinion. Most times folks with true love for a product are the ones that hold the microscope up closest and find it's flaws. People speak their opinions of what is right and what is wrong in hopes that somehow, someway, these things will be corrected or improved so that a product they love dearly can once again hold up to the standards they feel appropriate.

I think that is definitely valid, but I also think there is sometimes a lack of prospective on these pages about how "amazing" Universal is compared to how "bad" Disney is. The impact on most guests is not going to be as stark as it is to the frequent visitors to the parks that make up the backbone of this board.

 

[fractal]

Kiss of death.

CNBC is the ultimate "top" indicator.

 

[afar28]

I commented in one Universa thread on here about my parent's experience in their parks. Based on what people say here, you would think they would have been absolutely blown away by Universal and vowed never to return to Disney. Instead, their reaction basically "it was nice, but Disney is better". They liked it enough that they will go back in the future -- as a 2 day add on to a larger Disney trip, which would be the real motivator of them going to Florida. They felt Universal needed to have more relaxing rides, more entertainment (like parades/fireworks) and more total attractions in each park. Again, they liked it, they thought it was comparable to Disney, they just weren't blown away the way that people on these boards make it seem they they would.

Now, I think there is a legit concern that some people will be spending fewer days at WDW and opting for Universal instead on those days. But the idea that people are going to en masse going to Universal instead of Disney or not go to centra Florida at all doesn't realy hold water to me. I think we are truly years and even 1-2 decades away from Disney losing a significant amount of their total annual guests -- plenty of time for any tradectory to change, especially with new offerings like Star Wars and Avatar planned.

I completely agree. I love Universal, but I'm not going down to Florida just for Universal. I go to Orlando for Disney, and Universal as a nice 2 day side trip. On this board it seems like Disney is so bad and Universal is completely dominating Orlando, which is completely untrue.

 

[sshindel]

I completely agree. I love Universal, but I'm not going down to Florida just for Universal. I go to Orlando for Disney, and Universal as a nice 2 day side trip. On this board it seems like Disney is so bad and Universal is completely dominating Orlando, which is completely untrue.

Maybe I've been staying out of the threads more recently that discuss UNI vs. Disney, the discussion tends to be more (at least my feeling) that UNI is stealing "days" from Disney. Cutting into Disney's guest population not by taking away 100% of someone's vacation, but when Disney historically could count on a family spending 7 days at their park and 0 days at UNI, they now might spend 6 days at Disney and 1 at UNI (or 5 and 2). The more days UNI can steal, the more it cuts into the bottom line. I know that I'm currently deciding if UNI is taking only 1 day or 2 days from my upcoming vacation. For the first time in nearly 20 years I'm going away from Disney for a part of my vacation.
At least that is the way I read most of the discussions. I could be very wrong though, as there are a few threads that I tend to avoid these days.

 

[afar28]

Maybe I've been staying out of the threads more recently that discuss UNI vs. Disney, the discussion tends to be more (at least my feeling) that UNI is stealing "days" from Disney. Cutting into Disney's guest population not by taking away 100% of someone's vacation, but when Disney historically could count on a family spending 7 days at their park and 0 days at UNI, they now might spend 6 days at Disney and 1 at UNI (or 5 and 2). The more days UNI can steal, the more it cuts into the bottom line. I know that I'm currently deciding if UNI is taking only 1 day or 2 days from my upcoming vacation. For the first time in nearly 20 years I'm going away from Disney for a part of my vacation.
At least that is the way I read most of the discussions. I could be very wrong though, as there are a few threads that I tend to avoid these days.

I do the same. Used to spend 10 days at Disney, and now it's 8 and 2 for us. I'm Not complaining though, competition is always best for the consumer

 

[ShookieJones]

Is it ironic that you are speaking of people logging in complaining about things that are broken or wrong at WDW, while rocking a Disco Yeti "Fix Me" avatar? Can someone call Alanis and figure out if that fits either the real definition or her definition of irony?

Once again, everybody together. People on these boards are fanatical about their love for Disney. If something is going wrong in their opinion, it is their right to voice that opinion. Most times folks with true love for a product are the ones that hold the microscope up closest and find it's flaws. People speak their opinions of what is right and what is wrong in hopes that somehow, someway, these things will be corrected or improved so that a product they love dearly can once again hold up to the standards they feel appropriate.

PREACH!!!

 

[Pentacat]

Why so many people hang out of these boards 24/7 suggesting what they are talking about sucks so bad that everyone at TDO is an idiot is hard to believe too.

Why not find something that doesn't suck and hang out there for a bit?

Don't forget that TWDC aggregates their numbers to make it difficult to know which parks are actually seeing increases versus decreases. How much of the recent uptick in attendance is solely DLP & DCA (with the $1b in upgrades)? Not to mention that at WDW raw theme park attendance is almost second fiddle to hotel occupancy rates. TWDC can shout about single day attendance all they want but undersold resorts will kill their bottom line.

 

[awilliams4]

Is it ironic that you are speaking of people logging in complaining about things that are broken or wrong at WDW, while rocking a Disco Yeti "Fix Me" avatar? Can someone call Alanis and figure out if that fits either the real definition or her definition of irony?

Once again, everybody together. People on these boards are fanatical about their love for Disney. If something is going wrong in their opinion, it is their right to voice that opinion. Most times folks with true love for a product are the ones that hold the microscope up closest and find it's flaws. People speak their opinions of what is right and what is wrong in hopes that somehow, someway, these things will be corrected or improved so that a product they love dearly can once again hold up to the standards they feel appropriate.

You are assuming my avatar is a complaint. Thus the misunderstanding there.

You must be checking the wrong threads. Try browsing through the Spirit thread. These are not people loving Disney. They are bashing, rooting for the downfall, insisting that they will never ever go to WDW again (curious, if people intend to never go to WDW again, why would they hang out on these boards for years after the fact posting thousands of times) making fun of, name calling after name calling, joking about at the expense of whoever they hate at Disney.

Sorry, that is not a 'love for Disney'.

There are people who hang out at this board and just bash Disney over everything all the time. This may violate things and apologies if it does but go check out a forum like Mouseowners the next time a hot topic comes out and just test the vibe. The difference is huge. I guess that means the other forum members must not love Disney because they don't hate it as much.

It is like reading the old comments section at FakeNews. No matter what the topic was, the comments section was always a hate fest for our current leadership.

WDWMagic has had a ton of that here for a very long time.

 

[afar28]

You are assuming my avatar is a complaint. Thus the misunderstanding there.

You must be checking the wrong threads. Try browsing through the Spirit thread. These are not people loving Disney. They are bashing, rooting for the downfall, insisting that they will never ever go to WDW again (curious, if people intend to never go to WDW again, why would they hang out on these boards for years after the fact posting thousands of times) making fun of, name calling after name calling, joking about at the expense of whoever they hate at Disney.

Sorry, that is not a 'love for Disney'.

There are people who hang out at this board and just bash Disney over everything all the time. This may violate things and apologies if it does but go check out a forum like Mouseowners the next time a hot topic comes out and just test the vibe. The difference is huge. I guess that means the other forum members must not love Disney because they don't hate it as much.

It is like reading the old comments section at FakeNews. No matter what the topic was, the comments section was always a hate fest for our current leadership.

WDWMagic has had a ton of that here for a very long time.

Exactly why I stopped posting on the spirit threads, and rarely look at them

 

[sshindel]

You are assuming my avatar is a complaint. Thus the misunderstanding there.

You must be checking the wrong threads. Try browsing through the Spirit thread. These are not people loving Disney. They are bashing, rooting for the downfall, insisting that they will never ever go to WDW again (curious, if people intend to never go to WDW again, why would they hang out on these boards for years after the fact posting thousands of times) making fun of, name calling after name calling, joking about at the expense of whoever they hate at Disney.

Sorry, that is not a 'love for Disney'.

There are people who hang out at this board and just bash Disney over everything all the time. This may violate things and apologies if it does but go check out a forum like Mouseowners the next time a hot topic comes out and just test the vibe. The difference is huge. I guess that means the other forum members must not love Disney because they don't hate it as much.

It is like reading the old comments section at FakeNews. No matter what the topic was, the comments section was always a hate fest for our current leadership.

WDWMagic has had a ton of that here for a very long time.

See, I dont know how much I agree with that in total. For an example, I'll use myself.

There is no place in the world that I loved more than EPCOT Center in the mid-80s and early 90s. It was my definition of perfection. The place where I would rather be than anywhere else on the planet.
I hold the opinion that Epcot of today is nearly a total waste of a ticket. My opinion of Future World (one that I've ranted on occasionally around here) is that it's nearly 100% worth skipping (they kill Living with the Land, I'm out sports-fans). I've advocated shutting down Future World in it's entirety and operating the World Showcase as a modern-day Pleasure Island. I will rant and rant until the proverbial cows come home on this topic if prodded in the proper direction. I can find very few good things to say about it at all.

But I promise you, that comes directly from the massive love that I have for that place, and the hopes that someday, with lots of $ and TLC, it might once again become something spectacular.

Maybe there are a few Jokers out there that just wanna watch The World burn. I tend to think that most of them though have arrived at their current opinion out of a love for the product and a feeling that it no longer holds true to what they fell in love with in the first place.

 

[DznyGrlSD]

Hilarious. I managed the Orient Express for about 5 years.

It's a shame how the park went from being one of the very best in the country to just a half-day park since Cedar Fair purchased them.

OMG Orient Express was the 1st coaster I ever went on and what got me hooked on "loop-de-loop" rides - I was VERY sad to see it's no longer there I don't understand how Cedar Fair has let it go...Cedar Point is fantastic - mebbe they're putting all of their $$ into CP instead of their other parks?

 

[Lord Alfred]

I have lost track of how many thousands of negative posts I have found on this board ... over the last few years insisting that Disney is ruining everything and their attendance will show that.

Well, how come it keeps going up?

Anecdotally, the only place I hear/see this kind of endless complaining and negativity is on sites like this. Several of my friends, family, and co-workers have gone to WDW over the past year (more than normal, actually), and not one has come back complaining. Not one. When I'm with those people talking, they are pleased, and I am excited about my upcoming trip in December. Then I visit a site like this one (or others) to get some news, and am quickly reminded about how much it all sucks because all I see people discussing is bad, bad, bad.

Now I am not saying that there aren't things that need to be addressed, and there are problems for sure, but sometimes on boards like this I think we develop tunnel-vision and can only discuss the bad and never dwell on what's good about Disney parks. It's not just Disney, though. Most every community on the Internet has gotten like this. When I was growing up, people said I was a pretty negative person, but compared to some Internet communities I am a beacon of optimism.

 

[Cletus]

Personally, I leave for Universal in 4 days. We were avid WDW people (3 - 4 trips a year for the last 10 years) and aren't stepping foot near the place this time. Stale and stagnant can't even begin to describe my feeling for that place over the last 5 or so years. So we will be doing 4 days onsite at Uni and then heading over for 3 days in Clearwater.

To be honest, when I pass the Disney exits on the way to the beach I will be flipping them the bird.

 

[TP2000]

He was Disney for nearly 17 years... he was the one who saved the 50th celebration for Disneyland and brought DLR out of it's nightmare from being under Pressler/Harris. Then Disney ran him out by passing him over with 'Yes Men' and stick figures like Ed Grier.

Perfect summary.

The proof that Ed Grier was a stick figure, or a sock puppet, is that he "retired" after his 3 year gig at Disneyland and then got a job.... as a dean of a small business school in Virginia. Yeah, there's a guy who is a true showman and has theme park love running through his veins.

Burbank needs to stop slotting in folks into these President spots at the parks with vapid corporate ladder climbers who could give a rats behind about theme park showmanship and the unique business of running theme parks.

Matt Ouimet was a rare exception, and George K. seems to be the exception for WDW too. But still, the track record of the last 15 years isn't good. Ed Grier is the poster child for that.

 

[afar28]

Anecdotally, the only place I hear/see this kind of endless complaining and negativity is on sites like this. Several of my friends, family, and co-workers have gone to WDW over the past year (more than normal, actually), and not one has come back complaining. Not one. When I'm with those people talking, they are pleased, and I am excited about my upcoming trip in December. Then I visit a site like this one (or others) to get some news, and am quickly reminded about how much it all sucks because all I see people discussing is bad, bad, bad.

Now I am not saying that there aren't things that need to be addressed, and there are problems for sure, but sometimes on boards like this I think we develop tunnel-vision and can only discuss the bad and never dwell on what's good about Disney parks. It's not just Disney, though. Most every community on the Internet has gotten like this. When I was growing up, people said I was a pretty negative person, but compared to some Internet communities I am a beacon of optimism.

I agree. I just got back from a Disney trip about a week ago. And before I went, after hearing about WDW on these boards I honestly wasnt as excited as I normally would be because of alot of the negatively here. But I was completely wrong, I had an amazing WDW vacation. All the hate directed toward WDW is a bit much. Obviously is has its glaring problems but it isn't as bad as it is made out to be

 

[lebeau]

You are assuming my avatar is a complaint. Thus the misunderstanding there.

You must be checking the wrong threads. Try browsing through the Spirit thread. These are not people loving Disney. They are bashing, rooting for the downfall, insisting that they will never ever go to WDW again (curious, if people intend to never go to WDW again, why would they hang out on these boards for years after the fact posting thousands of times) making fun of, name calling after name calling, joking about at the expense of whoever they hate at Disney.

Sorry, that is not a 'love for Disney'.

There are people who hang out at this board and just bash Disney over everything all the time. This may violate things and apologies if it does but go check out a forum like Mouseowners the next time a hot topic comes out and just test the vibe. The difference is huge. I guess that means the other forum members must not love Disney because they don't hate it as much.

It is like reading the old comments section at FakeNews. No matter what the topic was, the comments section was always a hate fest for our current leadership.

WDWMagic has had a ton of that here for a very long time.

You are overgeneralizing.

I have seen several people be critical of Disney. Myself included. Disney gives us a lot to criticize. I have seen very little of the behavior you described.

Are there other sites that are less critical of Disney? Oh brother are there! Just about every other disney site on the net is all pixie dust all the time. The fact that WDWMAGIC isn't like that is what makes it the best Disney World site around.

"I guess that means the other forum members must not love Disney because they don't hate it as much."

I realize you are being sarcastic, but I am not when I say that Pixie Dusters love Disney less than a lot of vocal critics here. When you really love something, you pay close enough attention to see the flaws and to be upset when they get worse instead of better. People who don't see the flaws don't love it enough to pay that kind of attention.

Fortunately, there are a lot of other sites out there where you'll never be confronted with critical opinions. But I'll stay here and participate in conversations with people who love Disney enough to be critical.

 

[Ignohippo]

OMG Orient Express was the 1st coaster I ever went on and what got me hooked on "loop-de-loop" rides - I was VERY sad to see it's no longer there I don't understand how Cedar Fair has let it go...Cedar Point is fantastic - mebbe they're putting all of their $$ into CP instead of their other parks?

Eh, Cedar Fair is their #1 priority. As long as WoF continues to turn a profit, that's all they care about. It'll never have the biggest or the best again – those will always go to CF. As a matter of a fact, CF is transferring the ThunderHawk from Knott's to WoF as their big addition next year. Problem is, it's stranded people and been shut down by OSHA twice. It really hasn't ever worked right. That should show you what they think of WoF.

They took out the Zambizi Zinger coaster (a huge favorite as well) and sold it. It's now the largest roller coaster in South America!!! Morons.

It seems Cedar Fair is much more interested in adding things to their Halloween events than anything else.

 

[Ignohippo]

Personally, I leave for Universal in 4 days. We were avid WDW people (3 - 4 trips a year for the last 10 years) and aren't stepping foot near the place this time. Stale and stagnant can't even begin to describe my feeling for that place over the last 5 or so years. So we will be doing 4 days onsite at Uni and then heading over for 3 days in Clearwater.

To be honest, when I pass the Disney exits on the way to the beach I will be flipping them the bird.

Right on, my friend.

It's now leaking that Uni will be adding to Jurassic Park and adding a Lorax ride as well over the next two years.

In the time it's taken TDO to build the FLE and the SWMT, Uni will have added:
• WWoHP
• Harry Potter's London
• The Transformers
• The Simpsons' Springfield
• Despicable Me
• a JP addition
• The Lorax
and they only have 2 parks!!!

Oh, and by the way, Avatar may still not happen.


I absolutely love WDW's new commercials that they've begun running. They aren't advertising anything new, just promoting "do it again".

Stale and stagnant are perfect words to describe WDW right now.