Chapek's comments - he doesn't want anyone on this board at WDW any more

[el_super]

The once in a lifetimer probably sets a budet before the trip

This isn't just about the family that has to save up just to come once in their life though... this is about taking people who are not fans and not regular visitors and convincing them to visit more often.

That theoretical family from Denver, that maybe hasn't been before, might just be turned off from visiting again if the requirements for trip planning are so strenuous, the lines for the bathrooms so long, and the general feel of the place is crowded and unwelcoming.

You only get one try to make a first impression.

 

[SpectroMagician]

So he is actually correct about this. They should raid prices to get to a good supply/demand equilibrium. The parks were too full before, so raise prices, get slightly less people in.

However them no longer investing in new things and cutting so many shows and services was a terrible move. Because people will no longer see the value in the cost and stop going. That is what is going to happen now, they are going to have too few people because they cut so much and raised prices without adding to the experience.

 

[WDWFREAK53]

Some of these are real, some of these are bullcrap, some of these are actually good, some of them are neither good nor bad, they're just different, and some of them are temporary COVID measures that aren't sticking around.

Magical Express... that's a cut, plain and simple, I'm with you.

Free MagicBands are a cut, I suppose, but when MagicBands were free, everyone complained "why can't we just do this on our phones?" Well now you can.

Live entertainment is a mix of temporary COVID cuts that haven't come back yet, temporary COVID cuts that have come back, and some actual cuts.

Housekeeping is a temporary COVID measure.

30 minutes of Early Entry in every park is actually an expansion of the resort benefit from 60 minutes in a single park.

Everyone bitched and moaned that they "had to" pre-book their rides with FastPass+, now they and moan that they can't.

Park hours are not shorter.

Portion sizes have not shrunk.

Crowds are not larger.

People were walking around on their phones all day long before Genie came out.

Everyone complained constantly about the dining plan, now they complain that it's gone, then they'll complain again when it comes back (because it's also a temporary COVID measure)

You need to show some critical thinking skills and realize that you lose credibility when you lump good points with silly points. Disney couldn't control COVID, they can't control runaway inflation, including for labor costs and food costs, Disney can't control customs and immigration, and Disney can't control the labor market.

I agree with you on some. Between the cuts and the "temporary COVID measures," there should be some lessening of pricing if they aren't offered anymore correct? If they're not paying for mousekeeping for each day of your stay, it should mean that the cost to operate the room is less.

When Magical Express was around, people would say that whether you use it or not, the price is built into your resort stay...it's not "free." Well, when it goes away and the price of the room actually increases, something doesn't add up.

MagicBands were a cost to someone...most likely built into the resort price. MagicBands went away...pricing didn't drop to reflect it. Now we have an experience that needs the upgraded MagicBand to take part in it....so I guess we do need them for some things?

People were walking around all day on their phones by choice...not by "necessity." I used that in quotes because you can still do it without being on your phone but you most likely won't experience as much as if you did.

Complimentary Fastpass went away for a paid system. So this is a "cut" to a once-complimentary service.

Genie+ is just not a good system. Requiring you to wake up and purchase each day, then do the refresh game constantly to try and book your experience before they "sell out" is a definite downgrade.

Also, now that Magical Express is gone, more people are renting cars...and guess what, that 'once complimentary' resort parking is no more. See what they did there?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I agree with you on some. Between the cuts and the "temporary COVID measures," there should be some lessening of pricing if they aren't offered anymore correct?

Not if people are willing to pay full price.

If I used to sell a fruit basket for $10, but now my supply of bananas has been cut off, but I still have people lining up to pay $10 for a fruit basket with no bananas, I'm not going to cut the price to $9 just to be a nice guy.

If they're not paying for mousekeeping for each day of your stay, it should mean that the cost to operate the room is less.

It is, but see above.

When Magical Express was around, people would say that whether you use it or not, the price is built into your resort stay...it's not "free."

Okay, well those people were wrong. Magical Express was essentially a marketing expense. Do you, the guest, "pay" for the price of Disney running TV commercials? No, of course not.

MagicBands were a cost to someone...most likely built into the resort price. MagicBands went away...pricing didn't drop to reflect it. Now we have an experience that needs the upgraded MagicBand to take part in it....so I guess we do need them for some things?

Those are new experiences that didn't exist before.

People were walking around all day on their phones by choice...not by "necessity." I used that in quotes because you can still do it without being on your phone but you most likely won't experience as much as if you did.

I think this is very personal and depends on someone's tech savviness. I've joked before that I can book Lightning Lanes with one hand while I pee.

Complimentary Fastpass went away for a paid system. So this is a "cut" to a once-complimentary service.

It's not a cut to a service, it's a price increase.

Genie+ is just not a good system. Requiring you to wake up and purchase each day, then do the refresh game constantly to try and book your experience before they "sell out" is a definite downgrade.

Go read these board four years ago and look at all the complaints from people who hated booking their FP+ ahead of time. Any system whatsoever is going to reward people who are early. FastPass+ rewarded people who booked and planned early. Genie+ rewards people who wake up early to book their first Lightning Lane. A standby-only system would reward people who wake up early and are first to get in line.

Also, now that Magical Express is gone, more people are renting cars...and guess what, that 'once complimentary' resort parking is no more. See what they did there?

You keep referring to price increases as a cut. Paid parking is not a "cut," it's a price increase. The service (parking your car) is still the same service, but now you have to pay for it. Of course that's a price increase, there have been all sorts of price increases. I never claimed otherwise.

 

[networkpro]

So he is actually correct about this. They should raid prices to get to a good supply/demand equilibrium. The parks were too full before, so raise prices, get slightly less people in.

However them no longer investing in new things and cutting so many shows and services was a terrible move. Because people will no longer see the value in the cost and stop going. That is what is going to happen now, they are going to have too few people because they cut so much and raised prices without adding to the experience.

That in a microcosm was what it was like going to the parks in 2007/2008. The prices didn't change, but the number of people having the discretionary income required to make a trip to the Mouse significantly decreased. The demand lessened to the point that the supply was inconsequential.

 

[Cliff]

So he is actually correct about this. They should raid prices to get to a good supply/demand equilibrium. The parks were too full before, so raise prices, get slightly less people in.

However them no longer investing in new things and cutting so many shows and services was a terrible move. Because people will no longer see the value in the cost and stop going. That is what is going to happen now, they are going to have too few people because they cut so much and raised prices without adding to the experience.

I think you could be wrong about this. Hoards of normal or "casual" fans pile into the parks that dont have the same high expectations we all have here. I would even be so bold to say that 80% of the masses that go to WDW dont notice the details that we do and just dont care the way we do here....

We know who Walt was. We know the company history. We know the original premise behind the parks. We look at the details. We listen to the sounds. We look for Hidden Mickey's. We know the names on Main Street...etc.....etc....etc. ( you csn list a thousand topics here)

We here are fans that are hard to please. When we see something that is out of place...we complain. And yes,...we know how to do WDW dirt cheap because we have the experience and know how that the family from Denver doesnt.

But...80% of the people that go to WDW dont give a damn about what we care about. They dont think the way we do. These people are much easier to please. They dont look closely and analyse details the way we do. THESE are the people that Disney loves most. They spend a ton of money and Disney's cost to make them happy is lower.

Our expectations are very high and our standards are very high....maybe too high now in 2022. Its very possible that Disney thinks that bending over backwards to pleaee "legacy fans" is just not worth it any more.

 

[Cliff]

So he is actually correct about this. They should raid prices to get to a good supply/demand equilibrium. The parks were too full before, so raise prices, get slightly less people in.

However them no longer investing in new things and cutting so many shows and services was a terrible move. Because people will no longer see the value in the cost and stop going. That is what is going to happen now, they are going to have too few people because they cut so much and raised prices without adding to the experience.

I think you could be wrong about this. Hoards of normal or "casual" fans pile into the parks that dont have the same high expectations we all have here. I would even be so bold to say that 80% of the masses that go to WDW dont notice the details that we do and just dont care the way we do here....

We know who Walt was. We know the company history. We know the original premise behind the parks. We look at the details. We listen to the sounds. We look for Hidden Mickey's. We know the names on Main Street...etc.....etc.

We here are fans that are hard to please. When we see something that is out of place...we complain. And yes,...we know how to do WDW dirt cheap because we have the experience and know how that the family from Denver doesnt.

But...80% of the people that go to WDW dont give a damn about what we care about. They dont think the way we do. These people afe much easier to please. They dont look closely and analyse details the way we do. THESE are the people that Disney loves most. They spend a ton of money and Disney's cost to make them happy is lower.

Our expectations are very high and our standards are very high....maybe too high now in 2022. Maybe Disney thinks that its just not worth it anymore to bend over backwards to please "Legacy Fans" any more.

 

[WDWFREAK53]

Not if people are willing to pay full price.

If I used to sell a fruit basket for $10, but now my supply of bananas has been cut off, but I still have people lining up to pay $10 for a fruit basket with no bananas, I'm not going to cut the price to $9 just to be a nice guy.


It is, but see above.


Okay, well those people were wrong. Magical Express was essentially a marketing expense. Do you, the guest, "pay" for the price of Disney running TV commercials? No, of course not.


Those are new experiences that didn't exist before.


I think this is very personal and depends on someone's tech savviness. I've joked before that I can book Lightning Lanes with one hand while I pee.


It's not a cut to a service, it's a price increase.


Go read these board four years ago and look at all the complaints from people who hated booking their FP+ ahead of time. Any system whatsoever is going to reward people who are early. FastPass+ rewarded people who booked and planned early. Genie+ rewards people who wake up early to book their first Lightning Lane. A standby-only system would reward people who wake up early and are first to get in line.


You keep referring to price increases as a cut. Paid parking is not a "cut," it's a price increase. The service (parking your car) is still the same service, but now you have to pay for it. Of course that's a price increase, there have been all sorts of price increases. I never claimed otherwise.

Sure you can still sell for the same price...and there will be people to feel that it's also not worth it to stay on property anymore as well. I don't anymore. Not that they care because there are plenty of people waiting to go in. Triple the prices, there will still be plenty of people to go.

If you have a list of complimentary "perks" and then you remove an item from that list...it's been cut from the list of perks. We are talking about perks of staying on property. Splitting hairs there. Whether they still offer it as a paid "add-on" is irrelevant...it is no longer a "perk."

Fastpass was cut. Genie+ was added. Similar but different.

Of course people complained about it...because nobody wanted to book a ride 2 months out. Being able to book attractions for the week, at the day of check-in wouldn't be bad...at least you'd be able to look at the forecast and determine which days you want to go to which parks....oh wait...can't do that either. (Which means, it's even dumber to require you to do it day-of....people have park reservations, let them book for their length of stay at the day of check-in.) Neither system was/is perfect.

 

[Cliff]

So he is actually correct about this. They should raid prices to get to a good supply/demand equilibrium. The parks were too full before, so raise prices, get slightly less people in.

However them no longer investing in new things and cutting so many shows and services was a terrible move. Because people will no longer see the value in the cost and stop going. That is what is going to happen now, they are going to have too few people because they cut so much and raised prices without adding to the experience.

I think you could be wrong about this. Hoards of normal or "casual" fans pile into the parks that dont have the same high expectations we all have here. I would even be so bold to say that 80% of the masses that go to WDW dont notice the details that we do and just dont care the way we do here....

We know who Walt was. We know the company history. We know the original premise behind the parks. We look at the details. We listen to the sounds. We look for Hidden Mickey's. We know the names on Main Street...etc.....etc.

We here are fans that are hard to please. When we see something that is out of place...we complain. And yes,...we know how to do WDW dirt cheap because we have the experience and know how that the family from Denver doesnt.

But...80% of the people that go to WDW dont give a damn about what we care about. They dont think the way we do. These people afe much easier to please. They dont look closely and analyse details the way we do. THESE are the people that Disney loves most. They spend a ton of money and Disney's cost to make them happy is lower.

Our expectations are very high and our standards are very high....maybe too high now in 2022. Maybe Disney thinks that its just not financially worth it anymore to bend over backwards to please "Legacy Fans" any more?

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

So Song of the South grossed slightly more over the course of 40+ years than PatF did in 1?

So SotS earned more than the equivalent of 37.4 +229 +33.3 = 299.7 million at the box office. [source: CPI Inflation calculator]

I italicized the more than for a reason. The 299.7 is the lowball figure based on what I could find. I didn't see a breakdown of the 1956, 1972 and 1973 releases. If most of the was 44.6 million was earned in 1956, then the total values in 2009 dollars would be 37.4 +351.8 +33.3= 422.5 million.

In the first year, PatP did earn more money, but that is only looking at small part of the equation. That $271 million is the worldwide figure. In the US+ Canda it only earned 104.4 million. SotS was only released in the USA+ Canada.

The US population in 1946 was only 141 million people. In 2009, the US population was almost 307 million.

So again it is also somewhat comparing apples to oranges because people didn't even have televisions in 1946.

 

[Wilbret]

Maybe Disney should buy Six Flags.
Raise prices for the core premium parks, and convert Six Flags into a budget version of the parks people want but can't afford. ;-)
But then, you'd need to raise Six Flags prices to keep out the types that like destroying property as much as roller coasters. Each park could get a retired actual Disney attraction. Sweet, Six Flags Mexico City has Primeval Whirl!
So that creates another issue, which could be solved when Disney buys three traveling carnivals, using their trash properties like "Cars 3..."

Lol. Give everyone what they want! Solution!

 

[Disstevefan1]

Princess and the Frog did pretty well, and it was cut off a bit by Avatar opening a week or so after its release. I bet it did better than Song of The South.

We must remember, Splash mountain is being replaced for Social justice purposes ONLY! If Disney wasn’t FORCED to spend the money to change it they wouldn’t have.

The accountants at Disney could rationalize that when they do remove the 77 animatronics and replace them with three animatronics and some screens that they will save money on maintenance but that’s not why it’s being done.

 

[GimpYancIent]

I have to say his plan is working. The parks are enjoyable again. I’ve been 3 time in the last month and half and the crowds are less and yet they are making money. More importantly even my partner says he’ll go back because the crowds are being controlled.

I am curious. You say you have been 3 times in the last month have you increased your spending each time?

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

This isn't just about the family that has to save up just to come once in their life though... this is about taking people who are not fans and not regular visitors and convincing them to visit more often.

What I was saying is that people often don't buy what they don't know. It isn't about saving up for a trip, it is more balking at paying for something that isn't familiar.

Even though they could afford it, if you talk to non-WDW folks, they think it is absurd to pay $60 for a single 3-minute ride, when they are already seeing how much it costs to vacation at WDW.

As I said, I have talked to folks who go to WDW for sporting events. These aren't poor people. They spend thousands of dollars every year for their kids to play sports, and sip cocktails every week while their kids attend practice. They regularly buy new iPhones and Botox. Those expenses have value.

They say spending $50 to eat breakfast is absurd. They think paying for a MK party ticket, on top of paying for a day ticket is absurd.

 

[thomas998]

Box office was $271 vs a $105 listed budget…
The general rule is Budget x2 in real cost for advertising and promotion…

So $270 vs $200 is a moderate success.

But not earth smashing at all.

Tangled did $600…was labeled a “bomb” before release…and started a whole new period in Disney animation. Better movie than frozen and it’s not that close.

That deserves much more than a bathroom.

So is it movie quality? Or other “pieces of the puzzle” at work?

Song of the south was much more 0successful” adjusted for inflation ($66 on a $2.15 budget)…but that’s with moved goal posts as the world was much different.

And even your quick and dirty success calculation for Song of the South doesn't have anything to take into account the much lower population when it was released compared to today. I suspect if you could make some calculation for the percent of people in America that saw Song of the South when it was released versus the number that saw Frog it would be even more lopsided. If you look at the prices of ticket in 1946 they were 34 cents on average if you adjusted for inflation they should only be about 5.20 but because ticket prices have risen faster than inflation they are actually now over 9 dollars a pop. When Frog was released the average ticket price was about 7.5... so Frog has already benefited from over priced movie tickets. If you just look at ticket sales the original release was basedon about 10 million tickets sold or 7% of the population in the US, with Frog pulled about 13.9 million ticket (also including Canada) which equates to little over 4% of the North American population seeing it. Given this was only based on the first release of Song of the South the number only get better when you throw in the 1980's rerelease of it.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

And even your quick and dirty success calculation for Song of the South doesn't have anything to take into account the much lower population when it was released compared to today. I suspect if you could make some calculation for the percent of people in America that saw Song of the South when it was released versus the number that saw Frog it would be even more lopsided. If you look at the prices of ticket in 1946 they were 34 cents on average if you adjusted for inflation they should only be about 5.20 but because ticket prices have risen faster than inflation they are actually now over 9 dollars a pop. When Frog was released the average ticket price was about 7.5... so Frog has already benefited from over priced movie tickets. If you just look at ticket sales the original release was basedon about 10 million tickets sold or 7% of the population in the US, with Frog pulled about 13.9 million ticket (also including Canada) which equates to little over 4% of the North American population seeing it. Given this was only based on the first release of Song of the South the number only get better when you throw in the 1980's rerelease of it.

Very true.

But movies were different. No multiplexes…popular movies ran in one room theatres for years on end…so not at all the same business.

It’s been well established that more people actually sat through gone with the wind than can ever be achieved again…probably the whole MCU combined

Quite a feat.

 

[flynnibus]

We must remember, Splash mountain is being replaced for Social justice purposes ONLY! If Disney wasn’t FORCED to spend the money to change it they wouldn’t have.

No one is forcing them - This is Disney's own moral initiative as they try to project what they want things to be. It's all PC stuff - but don't try to paint that as 'forced on them'. This is Disney behind the wheel and the one pushing the gas pedal.

 

[thomas998]

Very true.

But movies were different. No multiplexes…popular movies ran in one room theatres for years on end…so not at all the same business.

It’s been well established that more people actually sat through gone with the wind than can ever be achieved again…probably the whole MCU combined

Quite a feat.

Gone with the Wind was fortunate to be released at the right time historically. The depression pushing people to look for an escape and the low 25 cent movie tickets made it an easy sell.

 

[thomas998]

No one is forcing them - This is Disney's own moral initiative as they try to project what they want things to be. It's all PC stuff - but don't try to paint that as 'forced on them'. This is Disney behind the wheel and the one pushing the gas pedal.

The annoying bit is that the advent of twitter and other social media platforms where a tiny sliver of society can trumpet their hatred in a magnified way provides spineless companies ample ammunition to justify all sorts of decisions. Now throw on some board members that have forgotten that they have duty to shareholders and not squawking parrots and you've got a problem.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Gone with the Wind was fortunate to be released at the right time historically. The depression pushing people to look for an escape and the low 25 cent movie tickets made it an easy sell.

The actual numbers of people that watched that and wizard - in particular - are probably vastly under reported. Second cut releases were lump sum…and I bet alot of people didn’t pay when they watched anyway