News Chapek FIRED, Iger New CEO

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
I think this is partially true to the extent that Eisner was interested in original ideas in a way Iger has never been. Iger does give the impression of someone who doesn't quite get why the parks are as popular as they are, but eventually discovered they were gold mines and could be used to promote all the IPs he's more interested in cultivating.

On the other hand, Eisner became fairly indifferent to quality by the end of his term while Iger seemed more sensitive to not opening something that was actively embarrassing for the Disney brand. While I don't think Expedition Everest would have been green lighted under Iger, I also don't think Walt Disney Studios Paris would have been green lighted under Iger. To take another turn, the latest hotels that have been approved for WDW show a complete misunderstanding for the business they're in that likely reflect Iger's disconnect.

I think Iger has been on board with some pretty poor/low quality additions -- the three that come to mind off the top of my head are the Little Mermaid ride (which looks bizarrely cheap for how much money they spent on it), Toy Story Land, and the Riviera, but I'd agree none of them are at the level of WDSP.
 
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lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
While Iger would not have done a Walt Disney Studios Park, I'm not sure that is much of a positive. The duds of Eisner's later yeas were at least cheap. There is an easy business justification for the enhancement or even outright removal as there is not a significant sunk cost. It's easier to justify replacing a cheap A Bug's Land than an expensive, sprawling Toy Story Land.
 
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Brer Oswald

Well-Known Member
Not if you listen to those who say that his pivot to China, streaming, acquisitions of Pixar/Marvel/Lucasfilm/21CF, and focus on IP is driving the company "away from Walt".

Even though Walt smoked his lungs to death and suppressed unionism within the workforce.
This has objectively driven the company away from a "Walt focus". The Disney brand has changed, from a focus on Walt sensibilities and IP, to a company largely upheld by the two "new" focal pillars, Marvel and Star Wars. Sequels upon sequels, a practice Walt wasn't too interested in.

Look at the recent announcements. Most were Marvel/Star Wars related. "The Walt Disney Company" itself has just become an IP, like Marvel and Star Wars, that is a part of a new picture. And TWDC itself is so varied, that certain announcements they consider "enough" to satisfy all long term Disney fans may not do that at all. "Oh a Moana show? That must be cool for some people, but I certainly do not care." Disney fans have the right to complain about this drastic shift in focus.

As for the China and streaming complaints, are those really Disney fans? Seems more to be Twitter accounts that hate Disney no matter what. They'll hate Iger. They'll hate Chapek. They probably hate Walt and Eisner.

"Even though Walt smoked his lungs to death and suppressed unionism within the workforce."
What on earth does this have to do with the content or brand he helped craft for the company, that lasted through most of the 20th century? Seems like a strawman point. "Oh, Walt wasn't that great of a person. He had *such and such* character flaw." Not really relevant to the content the company produces.
 

Slpy3270

Well-Known Member
What on earth does this have to do with the content or brand he helped craft for the company, that lasted through most of the 20th century? Seems like a strawman point. "Oh, Walt wasn't that great of a person. He had *such and such* character flaw." Not really relevant to the content the company produces.
I'm just exhausted with people who think he was anything but your average scummy studio executive. Like they actually believe the Walt seen on TV was the Walt in real life (which, hoo boy...).
 

412

Well-Known Member
I'm just exhausted with people who think he was anything but your average scummy studio executive. Like they actually believe the Walt seen on TV was the Walt in real life (which, hoo boy...).

There's been a lot of back and forth on Walt Disney's legacy over the years. Was he anti-semitic or not? A terrible boss or world-class motivator?

But I don't think any informed person would describe him as an "average scummy studio executive."

Walt Disney. Average? Really?
 

Brer Oswald

Well-Known Member
I'm just exhausted with people who think he was anything but your average scummy studio executive. Like they actually believe the Walt seen on TV was the Walt in real life (which, hoo boy...).
"Average Scummy Studio Executive"

Seems like you're exaggerating to prove some point, or this is your own personal headcanon based on info you've read online.

Would an average studio executive, like Iger, Chapek, or Eisner, bet their life insurance on several projects that were deemed a guranteed failure?

The complaints towards Walt and the complaints towards typical executives are quite different. His are more in regards to personal judgement than stuff he did to leverage money or political position.
 

FerretAfros

Well-Known Member
While Iger would not have done a Walt Disney Studios Park, I'm not sure that is much of a positive. The duds of Eisner's later yeas were at least cheap. There is an easy business justification or the enhancement or even outright removal as there is not a significant sunk cost. It's easier to justify replacing a cheap A Bug's Land than an expensive, sprawling Toy Story Land.
In addition to the low cost/low risk strategy associated with many of Eisner's later park projects, WDSP was built in order to fulfil a contractual obligation to open the second gate at DLRP within 10 years of the first park. It was a long-term strategic move, delivering the bare minimum elements of a theme park in order to secure the land use rights for the larger DLRP area for decades to come. From the business side, WDSP was never meant to really pull its own weight in the way that the other second gates were; it was merely intended to hold the land, while attendance and spending incrementally grew to support future expansion.

As a direct counterpoint, control of the site for the second park in Hong Kong was ceded back to the government earlier this year, because Disney did not meet its deadlines for expansion. Disney half-heartedly threw together a proposal for an extension to the deadlines, but they never seemed to have any real interest in preserving the parcel for future use. While the regional geopolitics are much more complicated than at the other parks, it's difficult to fathom an adjacent government-run land use that's more compatible than something Disney would have done themselves. But coming up with a solution would require a vision for the resort, and an understanding of why people enjoy it.

Eisner and his team were able to understand what people enjoy about the parks and reduce it to its core, in order to create a leaner, faster, and more agile experience. Yes, many of those projects stripped away too many elements, but they were able to get a comparatively large volume of stuff done on a shoestring budget. While many of these additions had their flaws, dollar for dollar, they tended to produce good returns for the company, even if they had to be tweaked down the line.

Iger seemingly doesn't have any idea why people enjoy the parks, or what it takes to make an enjoyable experience. His version of leadership is to just throw more money on the ever-increasing costs of projects, with the blind hope that cost equals quality. As a result, the parks under his leadership have been far slower to add new experiences, as each and every one represents a major expenditure that is more difficult to recoup its upfront costs. Instead of looking into the details of *why* something is popular, the current trend is to just throw money at IP at any problem, and hope it resolves itself. It's gotten to the point that I'm not even sure the current management realizes how out-of-line their costs are when compared to industry standard (or even their own company just a few years ago).

For a simple comparison, opening day DCA cost about the same amount as the new Guardians roller coaster will in Epcot. Yes, there's been inflation in the interim, and (hopefully) the quality will be vastly different. But as a strategic move to increase tickets sold, hotel rooms filled, and merchandise moved, DCA was an exponentially better use of the available resources. While Eisner's products had flaws, the lower upfront costs made revisions more palatable; Iger's overpriced additions still have numerous flaws, but the high cost mean that fixes are far more infrequent.

"Even though Walt smoked his lungs to death and suppressed unionism within the workforce."
What on earth does this have to do with the content or brand he helped craft for the company, that lasted through most of the 20th century? Seems like a strawman point. "Oh, Walt wasn't that great of a person. He had *such and such* character flaw." Not really relevant to the content the company produces.
Ad Hominem, not Strawman ;)
 

Haymarket

Well-Known Member
Around the time of its opening, Shanghai Disneyland was commonly described by the media as Iger's "baby", seemingly in part because it's the only park built (cf. negotiations) during his time as CEO.

Has Chapek ever mentioned/disclosed his interest in a location (e.g., country and/or city) for a new park that he's interested in examining more closely, etc.?

I'm wondering what his "baby" will be.
 

Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
Eisner and his team were able to understand what people enjoy about the parks and reduce it to its core, in order to create a leaner, faster, and more agile experience. Yes, many of those projects stripped away too many elements, but they were able to get a comparatively large volume of stuff done on a shoestring budget. While many of these additions had their flaws, dollar for dollar, they tended to produce good returns for the company, even if they had to be tweaked down the line.
...

For a simple comparison, opening day DCA cost about the same amount as the new Guardians roller coaster will in Epcot. Yes, there's been inflation in the interim, and (hopefully) the quality will be vastly different. But as a strategic move to increase tickets sold, hotel rooms filled, and merchandise moved, DCA was an exponentially better use of the available resources. While Eisner's products had flaws, the lower upfront costs made revisions more palatable; Iger's overpriced additions still have numerous flaws, but the high cost mean that fixes are far more infrequent.
I see your point about the contractual obligation regarding WDSP (though I still think Disney could have come up with something better than warehouses in a parking lot), and the wild costs of recent projects is also a massive issue. Still, you lose me with the notion that Eisner managed to distill what people enjoyed from the parks into a leaner, faster, and more agile experience. Particularly in regards to DCA, which became another embarrassment for Disney. In that regard, it's interesting to think that there is now an episode of The Simpsons running on Disney+ with a joke about how bad DCA was perceived to be.

I remember going to DCA before the reboot with a few friends who weren't Disney freaks and one asking me casually as we walked across the park after spending the previous day at DL whether it was also run by Disney as it didn't look as elaborate. She honestly didn't even mean it as a dig and generally enjoyed the place, Still, I think it was telling how the difference in quality was immediately apparent even to the casual visitor.
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
I see your point about the contractual obligation regarding WDSP (though I still think Disney could have come up with something better than warehouses in a parking lot), and the wild costs of recent projects is also a massive issue. Still, you lose me with the notion that Eisner managed to distill what people enjoyed from the parks into a leaner, faster, and more agile experience. Particularly in regards to DCA, which became another embarrassment for Disney. In that regard, it's interesting to think that there is now an episode of The Simpsons running on Disney+ with a joke about how bad DCA was perceived to be.

I remember going to DCA before the reboot with a few friends who weren't Disney freaks and one asking me casually as we walked across the park after spending the previous day at DL whether it was also run by Disney as it didn't look as elaborate. She honestly didn't even mean it as a dig and generally enjoyed the place, Still, I think it was telling how the difference in quality was immediately apparent even to the casual visitor.
The fact that Phillipe Gas was able to negotiate kicking Gate 3 down the road by ten years, originally planned to open in 2020, with more funding to the existing resort and expansion shows that they failed to argue for a better deal back then. $600 million into Parc Disneyland in the aughts would have netted us much more than WDSP.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
The fact that Phillipe Gas was able to negotiate kicking Gate 3 down the road by ten years, originally planned to open in 2020, with more funding to the existing resort and expansion shows that they failed to argue for a better deal back then. $600 million into Parc Disneyland in the aughts would have netted us much more than WDSP.
I’m not sure you could have made such a deal without the failure of Walt Disney Studios Park.
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
I’m not sure you could have made such a deal without the failure of Walt Disney Studios Park.
Fair, but they certainly could have made a strong argument against a second gate by spending a comparable amount of money in DLP where it certainly could have gone further.

Tony’s Little Mermaid, IJA, Duckberg and a Jungle Book ride for the Germans would have been a pretty compelling package to entice more guests to the resort.
 
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Robbiem

Well-Known Member
Fair, but they certainly could have made a strong argument against a second gate by spending a comparable amount of money in DLP where it certainly could have gone further.

Tony’s Little Mermaid, IJA, Duckberg and a Jungle Book ride for the Germans would have been a pretty compelling package to entice more guests to the resort.

remember in the late 90s Disneys plans were to turn all their parks into at least two gate resorts. WDSP was a contactual obligation but it was also part of a wider company plan just with a far reduced budget than the orignal Disney MGm Europe plans from a decade earlier, it was effectively a reaction to sparing no expense on the original resort and loosing money

Iger was around at Disney for this period so he can’t be blameless. As the big cheese he let the parks stagnate for years and only really started investing when Potter became a hit at universal he is a far more reactionary manager spending to buy out the competition or make Disneys version of X rather than creating something truely New.
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
remember in the late 90s Disneys plans were to turn all their parks into at least two gate resorts. WDSP was a contactual obligation but it was also part of a wider company plan just with a far reduced budget than the orignal Disney MGm Europe plans from a decade earlier, it was effectively a reaction to sparing no expense on the original resort and loosing money
I’m aware. There were a lot of people who sat in meetings like John Hench and Marty Sklar who knew this strategy would fail with the half assed parks they built.
 
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HauntedPirate

Park nostalgist
Premium Member
Around the time of its opening, Shanghai Disneyland was commonly described by the media as Iger's "baby", seemingly in part because it's the only park built (cf. negotiations) during his time as CEO.

Has Chapek ever mentioned/disclosed his interest in a location (e.g., country and/or city) for a new park that he's interested in examining more closely, etc.?

I'm wondering what his "baby" will be.

If I had to guess? India.
 

FerretAfros

Well-Known Member
Does that include the cost of Grand Californian Hotel!
I believe DCA itself was right around half of the $1.2 billion Disneyland Resort Expansion ($600-650M is the budget I recall). The remainder of the money was spent on the Grand Californian, Downtown Disney, and resort infrastructure improvements to support the new configuration.

For another modern-day comparison, DL's Galaxy's Edge and associated infrastructure projects (rerouting Rivers of America, parkwide path widening, etc) came in a little over $1 billion ($1.1-1.2B by most accounts), for what essentially amounts to 2 rides, some stores, and walkways.
I see your point about the contractual obligation regarding WDSP (though I still think Disney could have come up with something better than warehouses in a parking lot), and the wild costs of recent projects is also a massive issue. Still, you lose me with the notion that Eisner managed to distill what people enjoyed from the parks into a leaner, faster, and more agile experience. Particularly in regards to DCA, which became another embarrassment for Disney. In that regard, it's interesting to think that there is now an episode of The Simpsons running on Disney+ with a joke about how bad DCA was perceived to be.

I remember going to DCA before the reboot with a few friends who weren't Disney freaks and one asking me casually as we walked across the park after spending the previous day at DL whether it was also run by Disney as it didn't look as elaborate. She honestly didn't even mean it as a dig and generally enjoyed the place, Still, I think it was telling how the difference in quality was immediately apparent even to the casual visitor.
I don't deny that there were severe quality problems from the late-90's through the end of Eisner's tenure. However, viewed from a high-level concept (which is the level where the CEO really should be involved), the basic elements were all there. He knew that people came to Disney parks for rides, large-scale shows, and unique experiences, delivered to large crowds with above-average hospitality. While it was easy to see where they cut corners in DCA, the attractions and entertainment themselves were generally well-received. The park's much-celebrated 2012 relaunch was primarily cosmetic updates to opening-day facilities, making it a more enjoyable place to spend the time between attractions, while largely keeping the attractions themselves unchanged. Ultimately Eisner's later years were defined by generally bad execution of good ideas.

On the flip side, the quality of the execution under Iger has been mostly outstanding. We have rockwork, backstories, and over-the-top ornamentation all over the place. But it all serves concepts that are largely mediocre and/or poorly located. The Shanghai castle is chock-full of everything a little girl could want, but it's a boxy monstrosity; Shanghai's open spaces provide iconic vistas, but leave the park feeling empty; the AAs in Frozen Ever After are great, but they have no business being in World Showcase; there's no shortage of backstory to Galaxy's Edge, but the overall experience is devoid of charm. These issues have been consistent with Iger-era additions, which tend to have lots of fussy ornamentation in order to disguise deficiencies that are more central to the core of what is actually being added. Additionally, finding ways to fix these issues (like adding length to Navi River Journey) is far more costly and difficult than upgrading the skin of existing, generally-enjoyable facilities.

Eisner also recognized that in order to increase profits, the parks must increase capacity. Yes, it was his Strategic Planning Group that continually reduced the target number of experiences per guest per day, but his additions were frequent and were generally well suited to serve large numbers of guests. The Iger-era focus on character interactions, dining, and "Instagrammable moments" has both reduced the frequency of additions, and dropped the capacity of the few remaining new additions from thousands-of-guests-per-hour to dozens-per-hour. It all seems to reflect that Iger misunderstands the basic reasons people enjoy the parks, focusing more on the Disney-branded exterior than the core experience itself.

Eisner's flaws were plain to see, but also typically easily corrected. Iger's flaws are more easily concealed behind a fancy wrapping, but are more fundamental flaws that are far more difficult and costly to correct in the long-term.
 

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