Changes to table service dining cancellation policy - credit card requirement expands

[janoimagine]

So? What do I or the other 40+ million visitors from out-of-town care whether the locals get screwed?

I'm not local by any means but it screws all by hiking the prices on meals, not to mention taking the spontaneity completely out of the experience ... not all of us have OCD and need to make our Dining plans 180 days out. And you should care because when Disney World starts catering to its local community you will get the quality and unique experiences you can get at Disneyland like holiday overlays, and like preventative mainenance on attractions so that your not left with attrations that are far below show quality.

 

[janoimagine]

I'm still confused to see 'Ohana listed as a signature restaurant.

My wife and I had dinner at 'Ohana on Thurdsday night, on the DLX DDP we were only charged 1 TS credit each for the experience, as far as I know it is not a signature resturant .. unless they have changed it between Oct 7th and today. :shrug:

 

[Pioneer Hall]

I'm still confused to see 'Ohana listed as a signature restaurant. I can't find any documentation that says it is. I've concluded that the only people keeping the dining plan in business are the travel agents (both those independent from Disney, and those that work at Disney).

They presumably get money on the package if they add in the dining plan whereas without it they're not getting any of the proceeds.

Consider my ideal usage of the basic dining plan ($45.99 a day)

Aloha Isle Snack Dole whip Float $4.19
Pecos Bill Quick Service Chicken Wrap: $8.79
Pecos Bill Dessert Chocolate cake or Carrot Cake (neither really interests me): $3.59
Dinner at 'Ohana: $32.99

This is a total of $49.56, and in all honesty I wouldn't get the Dessert and I'd probably get the regular Dole Whip. The good thing I have seen is that Food and Wine Items up to $7.25 have been labeled as snack items.

Eliminating the Dining plan is the solution to this problem, not tacking on a fee for cancelled reservations.

The list really looks like Signature and Character dining locations. The way it is worded makes it sound like they would be signature, but it just looks like places that have at least one character meal during the day. All of the official plan material for 2011 and 2012 has the signature restaurants staying as they are with no others being added to that list.

 

[Computer Magic]

Human nature is just that. The more Disney raises prices, nickels and dimes guests, etc ... the more people feel like its OK to do likewise to the company. Not arguing morality at all ... just saying the more people feel like they're being taken aadvantage of, the more they're likely to engage in bad behavior of their own.

Exaclty It's Disney that created this issue in 2005 when the introduced the DDP. You can't blame the guest for using a system Disney forced you into. I would rather go back to the Disney Dream Maker Package. There was more options than just dining. This spread out the options: http://www.kingdom-travel.com/Walt_Disney_World_Planning/Disney_Dream_Maker_Package.shtml

and the issues with dining reservations has largely been post 2005-DDP. Yes, there were some tough places to get into prior ... but nothing like it has been since Disney has cruise lined dining with the DDP.

I noticed the issue when the package changed to DDP only, which started in 2005. I went in May that year and was bumped about the changes.

Only in the 90s did it become a big deal to make ressies, but there were also far more options across WDW anyway. I think the first time I had an issue with a ressie was in the late 90s for the renamed Cindy's Castle for dinner and California Grill.

Tovuse your words, they walmart the dining in 2005 by low balling the cost. Most non-Disney restraurants left the plan which gave less choices. These were places mostly in DTD like Fulton's. As I stated above the Dream Package spread out the people on vacation by having more dining options, tours, Recreation, Souvenir, Specially Created Disney Merchandise, etc.

 

[lebeau]

Eliminating the Dining plan is the solution to this problem, not tacking on a fee for cancelled reservations.

Amen!

I was initially surprised to see the universal praise for this move. Then I remembered a story I read about a guy who lobbied for an end to government assistance for people who lost their jobs. He was sick and tired of his tax money going to all those damn freeloaders. Then he was laid off and he realized that the changes he had championed left him without compensation.

"But wait!" he said. "I'm not a freeloader. I'm an honest person who's fallen on hard times! I just need a little help this one time!"

I can't wait to see how people's opinions on this change when they get stung by a little bad luck on vacation and Disney decides to add insult to injury by slapping them with a fee on top of it.

 

[Disaddict]

How many times do people expect to have a missed ADR? Put $10 per person in the bank and use the money after all of your ADRs were kept. I am looking forward to this.

 

[HouCuseChickie]

There are no legitimate reasons to cancel with the exception of A) a 9/11 national catastrophe, or B) a hurricane of Katrina-like proportions.

It doesn't matter if you're flying in from Boston Logan and there's a blizzard. It may not be your fault but it sure as heck isn't Disney's.

It doesn't matter if you're on a Disney Transportation bus or monorail and it breaks down. You had plenty of time prior to get to the restaurant; you can also call the restaurant and tell them the situation and they'll verify it on-property.

People love to come up with a thousand doomsday scenarios (which says more negative things about them than any new policy). All you have to do is remember this: ADRs are suggested but they are not mandatory. You do not have to make them. You can always try to walk-up or use CS instead. However, if you choose to make an ADR, stick to it or follow the guidelines of the policy. I hope the selfish, stupid, doomsday naysayers out there get burned. However, I will agree with a PP who said those who 2x & 3x book are doing so with TS spots not on that list. Disney needs to enforce this policy on ALL restaurants.

As for the all or nothing policy- that's rarely the case with any business - including Disney. Life happens and it doesn't have to be a national catastrophe to warrant special considerations. It may not be posted information for the public and may require mgmt intervention, but implying that a major disaster has to hit for customer service to even consider exceptions to the rule is not only ludicrious, but poor business practice. I've heard several stories of Disney bending the rules for people in tough situations.

As for the transportation situation- I guess you can't appreciate the situation. And as I noted, there was a problem with our phone reception, but you seem to have an answer for everything- so you tell me how we were supposed to call on phones that were getting no reception. I'm sure you'll come back with some snarky reply, but that was the situation... stuck in the middle of thousands of people w/zero movement due to major system breakdowns, 2 small children in tow, and no phone reception. And the sad thing is- it happens with the monorails now and then and Disney should be prepared to waive such fees when there are massive transportation meltdowns. I remember getting on here after that trip and hearing everyone talk about how things that should have taken 20-30 min took 3-4 hours that night.

As for the personal Doomsday scenarios - you say this like everyone is just making an excuse and has serious character issues for trying to claim the reason was legit. Have you seriously never had anything uncommonly bad come up on a trip? If so- lucky you, but you're the exception and a far cry from the norm. I also gather you don't travel with children or elderly/disabled people- who also increase your odds of unexpected serious issues. To even suggest that people in these situations are selfish, stupid and abusing the system is offensive. You are completely ignorant to other people's situations and lives and so you have 0 place to make an all encompassing blanket assessment of people who don't make it to their ADRs.

You speak of ADRs not being mandatory and to just rely on walk ups or CS. Considering how many families travel to WDW- your approach is a vacation recipe for disaster for many people with kids. I know not all of Disney's patrons are families with kids, but every time I've ever been to WDW- I see a lot of families- families who live by planning and routines. No matter where we travel- serious planning and scheduling is mandatory. I would never dream of a trip to WDW w/o ADRs...why blow thousands and thousands of dollars on a trip if I can't guarantee fairly prompt seating at our top choice TS meals?

I'd also like to state for the record that I've never double booked and that 'Ohana adr is the only one I've ever missed that wasn't canceled in advance. Yes, I get annoyed when I have situations like our Rose & Crown meal last year- where the place was half empty all meal, but for 180 days I was never able to improve my adr time, but I'd also be perfectly fine with anyone who missed their adr if they had a violent stomach bug, a child with a high fever, a bad allergic reaction to food earlier in the day, etc. My point is just that it can't be black and white and while it may look like that in the printed policy right now, there has got to be room in it (even if not published) for the unexpected issues that require serious attention.

 

[unkadug]

The condomman is incapable of making a post that isn't inflammatory.....just leave him be and perhaps the mods will see him for what he is.

 

[Disaddict]

You will learn who to take with a grain of salt as time goes. Certain members that are regulars on a certain COMICal forum will always entertain. Better to let them entertain than ruffle feathers.

Yeah, I have him on my ignore list but sadly, you people keep quoting him and those I can still see the blatent negativity. LOL

 

[lebeau]

How many times do people expect to have a missed ADR? Put $10 per person in the bank and use the money after all of your ADRs were kept. I am looking forward to this.

The point is, you don't expect it to happen. It just does. Often times because of circumstances beyond your control.

What exactly are you looking forward to? People are still going to cheat the system. How do you expect to benefit from this at all? Do you enjoy paying for meals you don't get to eat?

 

[disneyrcks]

The point is, you don't expect it to happen. It just does. Often times because of circumstances beyond your control.

What exactly are you looking forward to? People are still going to cheat the system. How do you expect to benefit from this at all? Do you enjoy paying for meals you don't get to eat?

My nutritionist, GP and dentist have a sign that says "We will charge you $25.00 for a missed appointment". I have completely by accident missed an appointment at all three. However, it has been few and far between and I have never been charged. I have a feeling this is how the ADR charge will work. If you call them and tell them you have an emergency, stomach flu, etc. They most likely will not charge you. If you pull a no call/ no show, they most likely will charge you.

It is a policy so therefore they need to put forth rules. They cannot say "miss a reservation or cancel an hour before and we may or may not charge you, depending on your reason". Therefore they say something along the lines of "cancel 24 hours before".

I am sure there is a gray area. I think this system can be a positive thing.

 

[Disaddict]

The point is, you don't expect it to happen. It just does. Often times because of circumstances beyond your control.

What exactly are you looking forward to? People are still going to cheat the system. How do you expect to benefit from this at all? Do you enjoy paying for meals you don't get to eat?

I've been to WDW a bunch of times and have made my ADR's at the maximum amount of time out before the trip, changed a few from time to time up to the trip but I have never, ever missed and ADR or have gone past a 24 hour window of cancellation. Yes, I have two children and they get sick just like all other kids. My wife is somewhat accident prone. We have never missed an ADR but if we did then I would just have to chalk it up to a crappy experience. As a pp said, you get charged fee's for missed appointments at other places. Why should this be any different?


And exactly how is someone going to cheat the system? You make the ADR and miss it or do not cancel it until the same day then you get charged. Where is the cheating?

 

[mickeysaver]

This change for me as the tourist that I used to be warrants a :sohappy: due to the abuse of the system that I can see that this will help to cut down on.

This change for me as a local, as I am now, it's frustrating at best. We have a toddler and I have some issues with stamina and mobility. I don't mind making plans using the 6 month rule. I have a reservation for this weekend that I need to cancel because of issues with my MIL's health that will prevent us from going to Le Cellier for my partner's birthday as we had planned to do months ago. We also have an ADR for Le Cellier in a couple of weeks for my own birthday. As of right now, I would love to say that we will definitely be there, however with my MIL's health being what it is, I can't 100% say that we will be there, even though I do want to go at least once since they changed the menu and went signature. Of course, I will cancel that one too, but there are plenty of times that we go with ADR's and end up finding that the baby is just done for the day at 6 PM and ready to head home or I am just done for the day due to the heat or whatever and those ADR's are just not going to be used by us, no matter how much we would love to make it happen on some level. :shrug:

If this change makes walk-up availability more readily available at Le Cellier and HBD, then I am thrilled, but I fear that it won't and that for several years to come, this local is not going to dine there again.

 

[goofysgurl]

I've been to WDW a bunch of times and have made my ADR's at the maximum amount of time out before the trip, changed a few from time to time up to the trip but I have never, ever missed and ADR or have gone past a 24 hour window of cancellation. Yes, I have two children and they get sick just like all other kids. My wife is somewhat accident prone. We have never missed an ADR but if we did then I would just have to chalk it up to a crappy experience. As a pp said, you get charged fee's for missed appointments at other places. Why should this be any different?


And exactly how is someone going to cheat the system? You make the ADR and miss it or do not cancel it until the same day then you get charged. Where is the cheating?

I have never missed an ADR either...

All the ressies I make - I keep...however, I cannot predict what will happen 180 days from now. What happens if one of my 4 children gets sick? My problem with this policy is that if someone wants to abuse they still will and they'll cancel their reservation 24 hours prior. And there is a chance something may come up, in my family, that MAY prevent me from making my res. ie:now it's 180 days from now, we're in WDW and my child is sick...puking...I've given Disney $8000 to be there already, now they want to charge me $60 (I have family of 6) because I couldn't see this happening prior to my 24 hour window.

It has never happened - but it could...

What makes me mad is that in an effort to thwart those that cheat the system there is a chance of screwing those of us that don't. And I really don't have the money to throw away.

 

[WDW1974]

So? What do I or the other 40+ million visitors from out-of-town care whether the locals get screwed?

Obviously, you don't. You have entitlement mentality. Since you visit WDW from outside the state, you are somehow better than the rest and somehow deserving of special privileges (like the right to have dinner that isn't a $9 QS burger in a basket). Funny how that entitlement mentality thing works.

But you (and more importantly, TDO) might want to remember that it was the locals who kept the lights on in 2001-2003 when so many folks were afraid to travel.

You might also want to realize that in the end we all lose as Disney dining continues to head down the Walmart road.

I'm going out of my way to visit WDW, maybe take the ME to property and not leave for the duration of my stay. If you're a local, you have the option of Orlando-proper to choose from when it comes to your F&B choices. You're in the minority if you think it matters to the rest of us, and clearly it doesn't matter to TDO.

Out of your way ...:sohappy: wow ... we should all bow (where's the bowing smiley?) before people like you. ... And locals should have the ability to dine at WDW. After all, they're the folks who have to put up with all the negatives associated with having the resort in the area. The idea that locals should be second-class citizens really is so ... so ... elitist of you ... and we all know that being elite isn't considered a good thing in this country nowadays ... so why don't we just call it a snobby arrogant 'tude!

And for the last time, will people please acknowledge the fact that WDW is the #1 tourist destination in the world? That times change? That we no longer live in 1974? There are only 70+ TS spots at WDW which sees an average daily attendance of 100k+. Why in God's name would you think you could just "walk up" to your favorite (and others' most popular) TS spot and get a table for your party size at the very time it suits you. Get over yourself. Get with the times or settle for #2 in USO and IoA. They'd be happy to serve you cold waffle fries.

I don't know that WDW is the #1 destination any longer. I thought NYC was. And WDW was #1 back in the 70s and 80s and you could still walk up and get served a quality and reasonably priced meal.

Oh, and you still can at UNI/IOA ... but that's because nobody goes there, right?
:ROFLOL::drevil: ... Or is it because UNI doesn't have anything as destructive to their food and beverage operation as the DDP is to WDW!

~GFC~

 

[WDW1974]

I'm not local by any means but it screws all by hiking the prices on meals, not to mention taking the spontaneity completely out of the experience ... not all of us have OCD and need to make our Dining plans 180 days out. And you should care because when Disney World starts catering to its local community you will get the quality and unique experiences you can get at Disneyland like holiday overlays, and like preventative mainenance on attractions so that your not left with attrations that are far below show quality.

Great points ... and all dead on.

But some folks will never get it ... trust me on this one.:brick::brick::brick:

~GFC~

 

[WDW1974]

I noticed the issue when the package changed to DDP only, which started in 2005. I went in May that year and was bumped about the changes.

Tovuse your words, they walmart the dining in 2005 by low balling the cost. Most non-Disney restraurants left the plan which gave less choices. These were places mostly in DTD like Fulton's. As I stated above the Dream Package spread out the people on vacation by having more dining options, tours, Recreation, Souvenir, Specially Created Disney Merchandise, etc.

Yep. There were always exceptions and times when you might struggle, but not like now where you can show up at EPCOT during only moderate crowds and be told ... 'we can get you into Morrocco at 8:50 ... or how about China at 8:45?' if you're lucky.

It has come to the point where it just isn't worth it to me.

Want great meals without leaving Disney property (and all the MAGIC) without making reservations most of the year?

Here's some suggestions:

You want steak? Substitute Shula's or Outback for Le Cellier or Yachtsman.

You want seafood? Substitute Fulton's or Kimono's for Flying Fish or Coral Reef.

You want Italian? Substitute Il Mulino or Andiamo for Tutto Italia or Via Napoli.

You want high end/top culinary experience? Substitute Bluezoo for California Grill.

You want Japanese teppanyaki? Substitute Benihana for Tepan Edo.

You want a character meal? Substitute Garden Grove for Chef Mickey's.

You want more? ... I can go on here ...

All without ever leaving MAGICal WDW property. Think about it next time you wake up 180 days out to make a dinner meal when you don't even know what you are having that night.

And realize that Disney only gets away with what consumers are willing to let it.

~GFC~

 

[goofysgurl]

As for the all or nothing policy- that's rarely the case with any business - including Disney. Life happens and it doesn't have to be a national catastrophe to warrant special considerations. It may not be posted information for the public and may require mgmt intervention, but implying that a major disaster has to hit for customer service to even consider exceptions to the rule is not only ludicrious, but poor business practice. I've heard several stories of Disney bending the rules for people in tough situations.

As for the transportation situation- I guess you can't appreciate the situation. And as I noted, there was a problem with our phone reception, but you seem to have an answer for everything- so you tell me how we were supposed to call on phones that were getting no reception. I'm sure you'll come back with some snarky reply, but that was the situation... stuck in the middle of thousands of people w/zero movement due to major system breakdowns, 2 small children in tow, and no phone reception. And the sad thing is- it happens with the monorails now and then and Disney should be prepared to waive such fees when there are massive transportation meltdowns. I remember getting on here after that trip and hearing everyone talk about how things that should have taken 20-30 min took 3-4 hours that night.

As for the personal Doomsday scenarios - you say this like everyone is just making an excuse and has serious character issues for trying to claim the reason was legit. Have you seriously never had anything uncommonly bad come up on a trip? If so- lucky you, but you're the exception and a far cry from the norm. I also gather you don't travel with children or elderly/disabled people- who also increase your odds of unexpected serious issues. To even suggest that people in these situations are selfish, stupid and abusing the system is offensive. You are completely ignorant to other people's situations and lives and so you have 0 place to make an all encompassing blanket assessment of people who don't make it to their ADRs.

You speak of ADRs not being mandatory and to just rely on walk ups or CS. Considering how many families travel to WDW- your approach is a vacation recipe for disaster for many people with kids. I know not all of Disney's patrons are families with kids, but every time I've ever been to WDW- I see a lot of families- families who live by planning and routines. No matter where we travel- serious planning and scheduling is mandatory. I would never dream of a trip to WDW w/o ADRs...why blow thousands and thousands of dollars on a trip if I can't guarantee fairly prompt seating at our top choice TS meals?

I'd also like to state for the record that I've never double booked and that 'Ohana adr is the only one I've ever missed that wasn't canceled in advance. Yes, I get annoyed when I have situations like our Rose & Crown meal last year- where the place was half empty all meal, but for 180 days I was never able to improve my adr time, but I'd also be perfectly fine with anyone who missed their adr if they had a violent stomach bug, a child with a high fever, a bad allergic reaction to food earlier in the day, etc. My point is just that it can't be black and white and while it may look like that in the printed policy right now, there has got to be room in it (even if not published) for the unexpected issues that require serious attention.

I applaud you :sohappy:

 

[Computer Magic]

And you should care because when Disney World starts catering to its local community you will get the quality and unique experiences you can get at Disneyland like holiday overlays, and like preventative mainenance on attractions so that your not left with attrations that are far below show quality.

Have you seen the number of DVC going into WDW?. I don't see any catering to locals anytime soon.

DDP and DVC is WDW savior

 

[Disaddict]

I have never missed an ADR either...

All the ressies I make - I keep...however, I cannot predict what will happen 180 days from now. What happens if one of my 4 children gets sick? My problem with this policy is that if someone wants to abuse they still will and they'll cancel their reservation 24 hours prior. And there is a chance something may come up, in my family, that MAY prevent me from making my res. ie:now it's 180 days from now, we're in WDW and my child is sick...puking...I've given Disney $8000 to be there already, now they want to charge me $60 (I have family of 6) because I couldn't see this happening prior to my 24 hour window.

It has never happened - but it could...

What makes me mad is that in an effort to thwart those that cheat the system there is a chance of screwing those of us that don't. And I really don't have the money to throw away.

Oh, I understand what you mean. But I think for Disney it is a case of "d***ed if you and d***ed if you don't" with this. But by canceling 4 of their bogus ADRs those people will not in fact be cheating anyone but those that want to make an ADR for the same time. By canceling even just 24 1/2 hours out they still give the walk up people a chance to eat faster. I'll be willing to bet that if Disney starts getting hammered by guests on this then they'll back off and we'll see another policy change, fast.