Changes to Fastpass+ Tiers at Hollywood Studios Effective 8.29

[FerretAfros]

Let's play with some numbers, and extrapolate how this could impact the park. Below are approximate operational hourly ride capacities (taken from this website https://crooksinwdw.wordpress.com/2013/12/14/theoreticaloperational-hourly-ride-capacity-at-wdw/ ) for all 6 existing rides at the Studios

Star Tours - 1,620
Tower of Terror - 1,800
Rockin Rollercoaster - 1,620
Toy Story Midway Mania - 2,160
Slinky Dog Dash - 1,485 (assumed, based on 7DMT)
Alien Swirling Saucers - 1,000 (assumed, based on similar flat rides)

The current Tier 1 attractions have an OHRC of approximately 4,645 guests per hour. Allocating 70% of the rides' capacities to FP, that's about 3,250 Tier 1 FPs per hour.

The new Tier 1 attractions will have an OHRC of 8,065. Assuming they'll continue with approximately 70% of the capacity being allocated to FP+, that will be about 5,650 Tier 1 FPs per hour, or more than a 70% increase with TOT and RNRC included.

Assuming that each park admission is essentially guaranteed one Tier 1 FP, and a 14 hour operating day once Galaxy's Edge opens (8am-10pm, which seems conservative), that's a daily attendance of 79,100 guests. Even accounting for park hopping and people spending some/most of the day outside of the park, that's still a massive number that simply can't be supported by the park's existing infrastructure. Extrapolated out, that would be an annual attendance of nearly 29 million, a laughably high number when compared to theme park attendance worldwide. In a way, it sounds like they're bracing for the worst possible scenario.

On the other hand, perhaps the FP ratios will be adjusted and this is simply being done to better distribute guests throughout the park. It sounds like they're willing to experiment with no FPs in SWL (at least to start), which could indicate that they're aware of the problems FP causes. Especially in a park with so few options, reducing the reliance on virtual queues could be a godsend for crowd management, getting people out of the walkways and giving them a way to spend more time in the park. Perhaps they might even tweak it further, allowing only 1 FP from each tier, further opening up space for standby guests looking for a way to fill their day

While I applaud the efforts to try to make the park more manageable, at a certain point it feels like too little, too late. The park's fundamental capacity issues have been widely known from the beginning, and very little has been done to solve them in a meaningful way. The latest additions will surely draw more people into the park, but the park really can't support substantially higher attendance than it currently has. It seems like things are going to get worse before they get better

 

[csmat99]

Point noted.

If people use their FP on shows, they may feel like they have to watch the shows which would keep them out of the standby lines.

Also, hopefully Disney will poor some money into making some great shows so that they don't feel robbed by having to FP a show.

no one is getting a FP for BnB that has been around since parked opened. IJ also hasn't been updated in million years. People who want to ride rides will get in ride lines. You logic is flawed.

 

[Networth]

So you think $2500 for the rides you have already paid to have access to is the wave of the future?

It could be...in that it’s stiff enough to NOT flood the place with it.

By the way...I have some lovely property In Monroe County to show you...ocean in the front, rivers in the back

$90 a day x 2 people x 2 days (locals here) = $360. Far from $2500. Would gladly pay $360 for 2 days of unlimited no tier fastpasses.

Or we could just get crowds down to the 1980s/1990s level... one can dream.

 

[Jon81uk]

I am a DVC owner since 2012 and have been to Disney over a dozen times. The reason I bring this up to begin post is that I recently brought my 13, 12 and 10 year old to Universal. I am a life long Disney fan and while I did enjoy Universal, I still like Disney much better. Of course with one exception. Universal's Express Pass is far superior to Disney Fast Pass. We stayed at Hard Rock and got to skip every line. My family kept saying "why would we wait in lines for 60+ minutes at Disney when we can do this." I think Disney needs to rethink their Fast Pass system and offer some kind of increased value whether its staying in certain signature hotels, being an annual passholder, being a DVC member or even selling additional Fast Passes. The amount of time you have to wait is unacceptable and I think they are losing business over it

But Express pass creates a system where those who can afford to pay to skip the line (either by purchasing Express Pass or staying at a premium hotel). Disney wants to get more money out of people but it does seem they know that many regular guests will not be happy if they introduced paid queue-jumping. Instead Disney are offering extra hours events (early morning magic, Disney after dark) if you want to pay for short waits, as these events have less of an impact on regular guests. They have also started selling extra Fast Pass to guests booking club level rooms, but there isn't really enough capacity in the FP+ system to open this up wider. They would need to scrap the whole system and copy Universal and Six Flags where people who can afford to spend more get to skip lines and everyone else goes in standby.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

$90 a day x 2 people x 2 days (locals here) = $360. Far from $2500. Would gladly pay $360 for 2 days of unlimited no tier fastpasses. Than again I hate people so

Or we could just get crowds down to the 1980s/1990s level... one can dream.

Right...it was 4x7x $90...the typical length of stay for a WDW vacationer.

You know that pricing policing is NEVER worried about the locals. That’s lower priority.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

But Express pass creates a system where those who can afford to pay to skip the line (either by purchasing Express Pass or staying at a premium hotel). Disney wants to get more money out of people but it does seem they know that many regular guests will not be happy if they introduced paid queue-jumping. Instead Disney are offering extra hours events (early morning magic, Disney after dark) if you want to pay for short waits, as these events have less of an impact on regular guests. They have also started selling extra Fast Pass to guests booking club level rooms, but there isn't really enough capacity in the FP+ system to open this up wider. They would need to scrap the whole system and copy Universal and Six Flags where people who can afford to spend more get to skip lines and everyone else goes in standby.

Disney is already doing something like this...just from a different approach vector

Right under our noses

 

[Jon81uk]

Disney is already doing something like this...just from a different approach vector

Right under our noses

I mention three ways they are doing it, the additional events outside of park hours and the club-level only additional FP.
The events have very little impact on most guests but offer a chance to pay for shorter waits. The club-level only FP is very limited I think as they are offering an expensive upgrade to a small group of people. If they started offering everyone the chance to buy more FP then, the FP+ system wouldn't have enough capacity for the people who are paying and they will get complaints that all FPs are booked-up and also they would have complaints from regular guests about the two-tier system.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I mention three ways they are doing it, the additional events outside of park hours and the club-level only additional FP.
The events have very little impact on most guests but offer a chance to pay for shorter waits. The club-level only FP is very limited I think as they are offering an expensive upgrade to a small group of people. If they started offering everyone the chance to buy more FP then, the FP+ system wouldn't have enough capacity for the people who are paying and they will get complaints that all FPs are booked-up and also they would have complaints from regular guests about the two-tier system.

The events are being sold because of the way they are manipulating crowds and their expectations

If they weren’t ride rationing...the events would fail

They actually affect everyone more than front of the line

They already don’t have enough capacity for a comfortable experience...thats why it’s like a job now and people are elated to use 5 attractions and squeeze in 2 meals per calendar day

 

[Jon81uk]

The events are being sold because of the way they are manipulating crowds and their expectations

If they weren’t ride rationing...the events would fail

They actually affect everyone more than front of the line

But if the early morning magic event wasn't taking place, the park would open as normal at 8/9am, the fact the event takes place doesn't affect those who don't want to pay for shorter lines.

Disney are using the FP+ data to try and minimise staffing levels anyway. The parks are also busier than ever before. Lines will be long whether the event takes place or not.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

But if the early morning magic event wasn't taking place, the park would open as normal at 8/9am, the fact the event takes place doesn't affect those who don't want to pay for shorter lines.

Disney are using the FP+ data to try and minimise staffing levels anyway. The parks are also busier than ever before. Lines will be long whether the event takes place or not.

I agree with these points...but it doesn’t hold for the night shifts...that is pure manipulation

 

[Ariel1986]

Right...it was 4x7x $90...the typical length of stay for a WDW vacationer.

You know that pricing policing is NEVER worried about the locals. That’s lower priority.

It's highly unlikely anyone would buy an anytime Fastpass for every day though is it? If you're staying for 5/7/10 days then buying it for a day or two of the trip would allow you to hit all the rides you want and then use regular fastpasses/standby for the rest of the trip at a more leisurely pace.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It's highly unlikely anyone would buy an anytime Fastpass for every day though is it? If you're staying for 5/7/10 days then buying it for a day or two of the trip would allow you to hit all the rides you want and then use regular fastpasses/standby for the rest of the trip at a more leisurely pace.

I think you’d be surprised

They are already running tests on the theory...I believe the “whatever” level add ons are not allowed to be sold day by day? But I haven’t followed it closely

 

[mikejs78]

Gotta say I'm pretty happy if this comes to fruition. This dramatically cuts down stand-by times at all rides with the exception of Star Tours.

FP by itself does not increase standby times. Tiers do actually increase standby times, not decrease.

 

[Ariel1986]

I think you’d be surprised

They are already running tests on the theory...I believe the “whatever” level add ons are not allowed to be sold day by day? But I haven’t followed it closely

Yup it's a 3 day minimum for club level, I think that might be to stop hoards of people booking only one night CL stays just for the FP aspect.
I can't imagine if they did ever offer anytime FPs that they would make it length of stay- as per your example that would be a crazy amount. Even if it was a 2 or 3 day minimum it would still work for some.

I can't see that if it was open to anyone, on or offsite- that a single day price wouldn't be offered as an on the day up-sell, especially to off site or single day guests.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yup it's a 3 day minimum for club level, I think that might be to stop hoards of people booking only one night CL stays just for the FP aspect.
I can't imagine if they did ever offer anytime FPs that they would make it length of stay- as per your example that would be a crazy amount. Even if it was a 2 or 3 day minimum it would still work for some.

I can't see that if it was open to anyone, on or offsite- that a single day price wouldn't be offered as an on the day up-sell, especially to off site or single day guests.

There will be some sort of program...and I HOPE it’s hugely expensive.

Why? Because limited use would impact everyone else the least.

It can’t be maxpass...then 50% will buy it and it will be another glorified ticket increase at Diminished value that further strains the logistics.

The main downside - for me - to the FP+ system is you log in and see how LITTLE they actually have/added as the overall attendance has risen on a consistent trajectory. It’s depressing

50 mil in 2019 looks a lot uglier than 30 with a new mgm in 89 or 40 with a new dak in 99...

The best defense has always been a good offense...now they’ve chosen never to let the defense off the field.

 

[virk4]

I give up...I'm ready to pay $$$.

 

[HauntedPirate]

I give up...I'm ready to pay $$$.

Which is exactly what Disney wants.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Well...they aren’t going away from fp+...because it provides them cost savings and data mining for free...so that can be bedded.

But it it were a hypothetical - here’s the problem:

How do you balance a maxpass price?
I’d its too cheap, then it becomes a standard and just a basic price increase.
If it’s too high, you get little usage. And even if it sells - doubling the gate is disasterous down the road. There is a ceiling to entertainment price before it fails under its own weight and that would be catastrophic to Disney.

There’s always a balance between turning to screws on people and jumping the shark. And you don’t want to be the Fonz

There are countless ways to do this.

• Make at a DVC, Resort Guest and Premium AP perk and add on for everyone else
• Go the true MaxPass root and revert back to paper for non-MaxPass users
• Make it 100% an add on

Those are just a few options. My personal preference would be everybody gets two rolling Fastpasses per day, but resort guests get to book one in advance. DVC's and AP's get a selection of advanced bookings but it may be under different rules as resort guests. All other guests get the rolling Fastpasses upon entering the park. Aside from the advanced bookings, no same day scheduling, revert to legacy/Disneyland rules for distribution.

The other thing to consider is that they are 6 new rides currently set to open by mid 2021. Demand will be there.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

There are countless ways to do this.

• Make at a DVC, Resort Guest and Premium AP perk and add on for everyone else
• Go the true MaxPass root and revert back to paper for non-MaxPass users
• Make it 100% an add on

Those are just a few options. My personal preference would be everybody gets two rolling Fastpasses per day, but resort guests get to book one in advance. DVC's and AP's get a selection of advanced bookings but it may be under different rules as resort guests. All other guests get the rolling Fastpasses upon entering the park. Aside from the advanced bookings, no same day scheduling, revert to legacy/Disneyland rules for distribution.

The other thing to consider is that they are 6 new rides currently set to open by mid 2021. Demand will be there.

They’re never going “off” the online system...it allowed them to predict you down to the second and then partially direct you. Too valuable for them. They didn’t spend a billion on IT to not use it.

DVC is never getting that “perk”...there’s too many and they don’t need to kiss their butts. I could see an upper level ticket though...that could fly.

Add I would be fine but I revert back to how do you price it and the net operational effects?

6 new rides...which are 4 after abrams land...isn’t gonna be enough to handle the normal increases. This problem ain’t going away

 

[World_Showcase_Lover007]

Short Story: On August 29, Tower of Terror and Rock 'n' Rollercoaster will be added to Toy Story Mania, Slinky Dog Dash and Alien Swirling Saucers as Tier 1 Fastpass+ selections. Star Tours stays a Tier 2. Smuggler's Run still set to open as a non-FP ride. I am unaware of any other changes to the tiers.

Source: I'm staying club level for SWGE's opening, and I decided to do the paid FP selections. When you do that, you actually get to make 6 FP selections 90 days from your departure date, so I was able to do that on Saturday. You pick 3 to be the "paid" FP, which you cannot modify or cancel without calling/emailing Disney Signature Services; and you get to make 3 "regular" FP, which you can modify/cancel just like any other FP selection. When I checked my app, I noticed that my selections did not quite match what I had asked for. When I emailed with my question, I was told that on August 29, the MGM tiers were changing, and that the new Tier 1 will be TSM, SDD, A.S.S., ToT, and RnR.

I am not an insider, I am just relaying information I was told in an effort to help folks out who are starting to look at FP planning for late August. Assuming this is accurate, I would think it would be announced in the next couple of weeks, because people will be able to start making 60+14 selections for August 29 around June 16.

Thoughts: As a person who prefers rides to shows, I think it is absurd, and it makes the EPCOT tiers look almost reasonable. There will be 7 rides at MGM starting 8.29: 5 will be Tier 1, 1 will be Tier 2, and 1 will have no FP.

The best reason I can come up with is that this is their effort to control crowds. I am guessing that most ride-riders try to get SDD, ToT and RnR. With SDD being one of the most difficult FP to secure, and assuming people will still try to get that first, the new tiers will force more folks to go standby for ToT and RnR, which will increase those wait times, which will keep more people occupied in those longer lines. A "positive" could be that it becomes easier to get SDD FP, as some folks will prefer ToT or RnR.

At the end of the day, while you may think the paid FP are ridiculous, extravagant and/or bougie (and I won't argue any of those descriptions), for me, for this trip, it was absolutely the right decision.

You’re an insider to me lol!