Changes in the "average guest" who visits WDW

[ParentsOf4]

Actually, in a very real way, ANYTIME prior to 9/11 now seems like the "days of wine and roses," to say nothing of a certain level of innocence.

From the 1950s to 1980s, there was a very palpable feeling that we were all going to die in a nuclear war. I suggest you see the 1983 movie The Day After for a sense of what was in the back of many people's minds. Heck, The Terminator was released in 1984. Oh and, by the way, airplane hijackings were a real concern in the 1970s.

Let's not forget that the first attack on the World Trade Center occurred in 1993.

Take a look at popular 1970s movies such as Marathon Man, Three Days of the Condor, Taxi Driver, The French Connection, Dog Day Afternoon, Dirty Harry, Deliverance, Jeremiah Johnson, MASH, Little Big Man, The China Syndrome, Parallax View, Rollerball (the original), Westworld, and Network among others to get a sense of what the period was like. Watch episodes of the #1 show All in the Family (first episode aired in 1971) for a sense of the decade.

The idea that the 1970s somehow was a period of innocence is to completely ignore the actual events of the decade, and how those events were reflected in pop culture.

Seriously, compared to the incredibly depressing 1970s, today is party city.

The 1980s were a relief compared to the 1970s but it's not as if all the events of the 1970s were suddenly erased from people's minds. People didn't suddenly lose their innocence just because one of the most depressing decades of the 20th Century had ended.

How this relates to WDW is that WDW was viewed as a shining beacon of excellence in both the 1970s and 1980s, two decades that stand in stark contrast to each other.

How this relates to this thread is that today's perceived increase in cynicism cannot come close to the very real cynicism of the 1970s; cynicism did not suddenly disappear in the 1980s just because times improved.

People haven't "magically" become more critical of WDW in recent years. WDW has declined and (IMHO) today's criticism of WDW has nothing to do with some recent uptick in cynicism or change in the average park guest.

Today's criticism of WDW has to do with a declining product caused by a change in Disney leadership who view WDW as a profit center instead of as a theme park.

 

[Skippy's Pal]

From the 1950s to 1980s, there was a very palpable feeling that we were all going to die in a nuclear war. I suggest you see the 1983 movie The Day After for a sense of what was in the back of many people's minds. Heck, The Terminator was released in 1984. Oh and, by the way, airplane hijackings were a real concern in the 1970s.

Let's not forget that the first attack on the World Trade Center occurred in 1993.

Take a look at popular 1970s movies such as Marathon Man, Three Days of the Condor, Taxi Driver, The French Connection, Dog Day Afternoon, Dirty Harry, Deliverance, Jeremiah Johnson, MASH, Little Big Man, The China Syndrome, Parallax View, Rollerball (the original), and Network among others to get a sense of what the period was like. Watch episodes of the #1 show All in the Family (first episode aired in 1971) for a sense of the decade.

The idea that the 1970s somehow was a period of innocence is to completely ignore the actual events of the decade, and how those events were reflected in pop culture.

Seriously, compared to the incredibly depressing 1970s, today is party city.

The 1980s were a relief compared to the 1970s but it's not as if all the events of the 1970s were suddenly erased from people's minds. People didn't suddenly lose their innocence just because one of the most depressing decades of the 20th Century had ended.

How this relates to WDW is that WDW was viewed as a shining beacon of excellence in both the 1970s and 1980s, two decades that stand in stark contrast to each other.

How this relates to this thread is that today's perceived increase in cynicism cannot come close to the very real cynicism of the 1970s; cynicism did not suddenly disappear in the 1980s just because times improved.

People haven't "magically" become more critical of WDW in recent years. WDW has declined and (IMHO) today's criticism of WDW has nothing to do with some recent uptick in cynicism or change in the average park guest.

Today's criticism of WDW has to do with a declining product caused by a change in Disney leadership who view WDW as a profit center instead of as a theme park.

I was born in 1946. I don't need to see any of the movies you listed to "know what it was like" -- I lived it, thank you. I was in college in the late 60's and experienced social turmoil first-hand. Movies reflect Hollywood's agendas - monetary and social. And I will continue to maintain that the life of AVERAGE WDW guest in the last 3 decades of the 20th Century was characterized by fewer fears, less government Intrusion, a greater feeling of public safety, and a greater confidence in the future than is true today. And I also recall doing "duck and cover" drills under my grammar school desk in A-bomb drills.........

 

[Belowthesurface]

Suddenly kids were going 14 hour, and you parents need a home base bigger than a locker for a day's worth of supplies.

These are probably the same people who get mad when their stroller is moved and unleash on Cast Members when they explain why. They are also probably the same people who are appalled by the amount of strollers in a stroller parking area.

 

[some guy]

I suggest you see the 1983 movie The Day After for a sense of what was in the back of many people's minds.

Or check out Threads. Makes The Day After look like a rollicking good time.

 

[some guy]

You know, I almost mentioned Threads but figured it would be too obscure for my side on the pond.

It is. I'm just a nerd for atomic death.

 

[durhay]

never heard of Threads before, but i just watched it on you tube and man o man, what a film..

wont soon be forgotten

Testament (1983) is a "good" one too.

 

[flynnibus]

Take a look at popular 1970s movies such as Marathon Man, Three Days of the Condor, Taxi Driver, The French Connection, Dog Day Afternoon, Dirty Harry, Deliverance, Jeremiah Johnson, MASH, Little Big Man, The China Syndrome, Parallax View, Rollerball (the original), Westworld, and Network among others to get a sense of what the period was like. Watch episodes of the #1 show All in the Family (first episode aired in 1971) for a sense of the decade.

part of the success of star wars was that it was optimism that stood out in this larger field of gloom or gritty realism that became popular in film at the time (which was in start contrast to the fake reality that was popular in film leading up to the 70s). And ironically, a transition that Disney did not manage well which was a large part of their decline in the 70s.

 

[slappy magoo]

Testament (1983) is a "good" one too.

I'm partial to "When the Wind Blows" myself. Heartbreakingly tender.

 

[MaggieCheshire]

Hi!
Nice to meet you all, I'm a brazilian woman, 25 y.o., who grew up travelling to U.S. (lots of different states) and WDW parks. This year is going to be my 17th visit and my fiancée's 1st. (we have no kids)
Answerings some 'myths' that I read along this thread, we Brazilians don't get any value deals and/or advantages in any way.
I could sense a little prejudice specifically against Brazilians here and I can't blame you for most of it. Those tour groups annoy me and lots of Brazilians "solo-travellers" as well, but then again, they are mostly Argentinian, Colombian, or even Mexican groups.
Regarding "solo-travellers" (a.k.a. non-travel agency-group-ppl), in general, South Americans are very respectful, polite and some of us know the American History very well. I do enjoy Liberty Square, Hall of Presidents, Disney's magic per se just as you Americans. I was even moved by your flag retreat at MK! So, we do respect and value your culture, and we are not the ones to blame for the fading magic.

Fun fact: the only time that I witnessed someting of notice in terms of guest-to-guest interaction was at Typhoon Lagoon, when a crazy american woman (strong texan accent, was not british, canadian or aussie, for sure) yelled at a 7 y.o. Brazilian girl who was playing in the water and accidentaly splashed some water in her kid's perfectly-brushed ponytail (who was also on the pool!!!). The Brazilian girl started to cry and to talk in portuguese to the crazy lady, who threatened to beat her, then a CM intervened.
My point is: rude people are everywhere. In many shapes, nacionalities and backgrounds.

Moving on...
Why do we travel that much to U.S.?
We do have lots of great resorts, hotels, tourism infrastructure here... but let's face it: U.S. is way cheaper than Brazil. I, for instance, can afford 14-days at Polynesian Resort + lots of dinning experiences + plane tickets + shopping, but I cannot afford the same at many resorts of this quality here in Brazil. I probably couldn't even afford 1/5 of the similar experience.

And finally, for the 70's, 80's and 90's argument.. please notice the advent of Internet. Not many people had access to disney movies, disney stuff, american history, neither could book a holyday trip abroad without paying tons of money and speaking english until that.

Disney is popular and will be always in our hearts and imagination, and it's a good thing, that's what Walt Disney wanted. To make dreams come true. To take us away from our political problems, our obligations, our tiring work schedules. To make us all feel like kids again. Sadly, the marketeers don't get it and are turning disney into 'toddler's place only'. They are the ones to blame, not the Latin Americans.

Thank you for reading, and I sincerely apologize for my english mistakes! Please, don't take me (or any S.A. as an intruder).

 

[englanddg]

Hi!
Nice to meet you all, I'm a brazilian woman, 25 y.o., who grew up travelling to U.S. (lots of different states) and WDW parks. This year is going to be my 17th visit and my fiancée's 1st. (we have no kids)
Answerings some 'myths' that I read along this thread, we Brazilians don't get any value deals and/or advantages in any way.
I could sense a little prejudice specifically against Brazilians here and I can't blame you for most of it. Those tour groups annoy me and lots of Brazilians "solo-travellers" as well, but then again, they are mostly Argentinian, Colombian, or even Mexican groups.
Regarding "solo-travellers" (a.k.a. non-travel agency-group-ppl), in general, South Americans are very respectful, polite and some of us know the American History very well. I do enjoy Liberty Square, Hall of Presidents, Disney's magic per se just as you Americans. I was even moved by your flag retreat at MK! So, we do respect and value your culture, and we are not the ones to blame for the fading magic.

Fun fact: the only time that I witnessed someting of notice in terms of guest-to-guest interaction was at Typhoon Lagoon, when a crazy american woman (strong texan accent, was not british, canadian or aussie, for sure) yelled at a 7 y.o. Brazilian girl who was playing in the water and accidentaly splashed some water in her kid's perfectly-brushed ponytail (who was also on the pool!!!). The Brazilian girl started to cry and to talk in portuguese to the crazy lady, who threatened to beat her, then a CM intervened.
My point is: rude people are everywhere. In many shapes, nacionalities and backgrounds.

Moving on...
Why do we travel that much to U.S.?
We do have lots of great resorts, hotels, tourism infrastructure here... but let's face it: U.S. is way cheaper than Brazil. I, for instance, can afford 14-days at Polynesian Resort + lots of dinning experiences + plane tickets + shopping, but I cannot afford the same at many resorts of this quality here in Brazil. I probably couldn't even afford 1/5 of the similar experience.

And finally, for the 70's, 80's and 90's argument.. please notice the advent of Internet. Not many people had access to disney movies, disney stuff, american history, neither could book a holyday trip abroad without paying tons of money and speaking english until that.

Disney is popular and will be always in our hearts and imagination, and it's a good thing, that's what Walt Disney wanted. To make dreams come true. To take us away from our political problems, our obligations, our tiring work schedules. To make us all feel like kids again. Sadly, the marketeers don't get it and are turning disney into 'toddler's place only'. They are the ones to blame, not the Latin Americans.

Thank you for reading, and I sincerely apologize for my english mistakes! Please, don't take me (or any S.A. as an intruder).

I have a hard time accepting that it's cheaper to come to the US than it is to visit Brasil. I certainly know it's cheaper for me to visit Florida, than it is to visit Brasil.

That being said, excellent post, and fantastic points.

Also, your English is very good, you shouldn't apologize about it. Though, it could (and probably will) improve.

I work with a lot of South Americans (and a few central Americans/Mexicans) and the best thing I ever did to improve my Spanish was to ask them to stop talking to me in their english. Immersion and necessity are the best teachers. (though, I know your native tongue isn't Spanish, I'm just using that as an example).

 

[MaggieCheshire]

I have a hard time accepting that it's cheaper to come to the US than it is to visit Brasil. I certainly know it's cheaper for me to visit Florida, than it is to visit Brasil.

That being said, excellent post, and fantastic points.

Also, your English is very good, you shouldn't apologize about it. Though, it could (and probably will) improve.

I work with a lot of South Americans (and a few central Americans/Mexicans) and the best thing I ever did to improve my Spanish was to ask them to stop talking to me in their english. Immersion and necessity are the best teachers. (though, I know your native tongue isn't Spanish, I'm just using that as an example).

Thank you very much! =)

Sadly, it is more expensive. Just check out the unrealistic prices of any 5-stars resort at Fernando de Noronha or Rio! Some of them are up 2.5k US for the night! Thanks but no thanks, I'd rather spend my hard earned money at Disney. At least I get some pampering.

 

[englanddg]

Thank you very much! =)

Sadly, it is more expensive. Just check out the unrealistic prices of any 5-stars resort at Fernando de Noronha or Rio! Some of them are up 2.5k US for the night! Thanks but no thanks, I'd rather spend my hard earned money at Disney. At least I get some pampering.

Wow, that's just amazing.

For 2.5k US you could treat yourself to a LOT in the US.

Why is it so high?

 

[MaggieCheshire]

Wow, that's just amazing.

For 2.5k US you could treat yourself to a LOT in the US.

Why is it so high?

Idk, because we are sort of 'new' in luxury tourism business... we don't have much to offer besides our beaches.

 

[englanddg]

Idk, because we are sort of 'new' in luxury tourism business... we don't have much to offer besides our beaches.

There's a lot more to Brasil than beaches.

But, I suspect, you are correct, it's a lack of supply.

That being said, most South American countries, while sitting upon fantastic lands, are facing these issues.

 

[MaggieCheshire]

There's a lot more to Brasil than beaches.

But, I suspect, you are correct, it's a lack of supply.

That being said, most South American countries, while sitting upon fantastic lands, are facing these issues.

Yes, there are, but in terms of cultural experiences only, and selected ones, IMHO...
You cannot walk around safely by night, among other things. Violence is a deal breaker to many domestic tourists.

 

[englanddg]

Yes, there are, but in terms of cultural experiences only, and selected ones, IMHO...
You cannot walk around safely by night, among other things. Violence is a deal breaker to many domestic tourists.

And yet, you all are about to host the Cup. I agree, frankly, you all are not ready, as a country.

(as a side note, no offense, but I really hope you all don't take another cup win...Pele was awesome and all, but YOU'VE HAD ENOUGH!)

But, that is the recent push, to use sport to "include" nations.

I just don't think, for you all, it's going to work out the way it did for us here in Atlanta.

See, the Olympics in 1996 here in Atlanta were a huge deal, and we made a TON of money, and gained a LOT of international attention to the city. It involved major infrastructure upgrades around the state, and in the city, and in the end, was a turning point from a city that, for the most part, was dying, into a thriving city that is one of the best and safest in the country.

My point is, the Olympics were not the thing that saved the city, rather, they were a culmination of various efforts, and that carried on after the Olympics left. It fit into a larger development plan.

I am not sure that will happen there...heck, even the Sochi stuff has already been abandoned. And that is just sad.

I really want to take my daughter to a Cup, and I seriously considered this year to take her. But, after speaking with the people I work with who are from South America, I was told it's probably not a good idea.

That, is sad.

But, what I think is even more sad, is when countries pretend to be mass tourist destinations with events like this, but don't really mean it, because they still have significant internal issues.

We saw this with S. Africa and the last cup. We saw this the recent Winter Olympics.

I'm not saying the US is perfect, and certainly there are our hot spots of crime, but in no way (and I've lived all over the country) do we see the sort of scenes we saw from Sochi. That is just embarrassing.

And, to hear you, as a resident and citizen, tell me it's not safe to walk at night. Yes...my decision to skip this cup is confirmed.

And, that is very sad. As I would have spent a lot of money on the trip, a lot of money supporting local businesses whilst I stayed, and even more money on junk plastic souvenirs both our countries purchase from China.

I'll watch the cup with my daughter, but it will be through TV.

It reminds me of this...