Changes in the "average guest" who visits WDW

Gabe1

Ivory Tower Squabble EST 2011. WINDMILL SURVIVOR
Yes. And my apologies for the mega-post.

This is one of the biggest things I've noticed in my recently ended stint as a cast member, and I was about to start a big thread on this myself, but couldn't quite find the words for it. But the average WDW audience has shifted dramatically away from the stereotype of the average American family saving up from their big trip to Orlando, and far toward foreign guests, many (or most) of whom travel independently from tour groups. I think tour groups tend to draw more attention to themselves, but there are many, many guests who travel from other countries (predominantly Latin America) on their own. (And for the record, far from just Brazilians - I'm fluent in Spanish, and it seems like we get many more Central Americans and Argentinians than Brazilians).

In many ways, I think this change of audience is actually one of the greatest challenges facing WDW right now. While Disney sees this as an opportunity for a new market and increased attendance, it causes some problems for us as Disney fans who care about the original intentions of the resort. I don't mean that in a racist way at all - I have had both wonderful and unpleasant interactions with guests from every country - but there is no denying a basic major truth in the way Disney now operates:

Disney no longer sees American guests as their main target audience anymore. Disney fans on sites like this one see foreign guests as an annoying group disrupting the WDW experience for the main audience... but the truth is that they now ARE the main audience, and the fact that Disney caters to them more than to us is likely one of the primary sources of discontent with how the resort is being run.

Don't like the prices at the deluxe resorts? You're not alone. I handled countless merchandise transactions involving package delivery, and if the person I was speaking to was in American English, I could guess 9/10 times that the package was going to Pop, one of the All-Stars, or off-property... with the occasional moderate or DVC. If the guest was foreign, it was probably going to a deluxe. I have friends that work as concierge at two of our most expensive deluxe resorts... and it's not primarily Americans staying there. One told me how almost every time he picks up the phone he has to pass it to a CM that speaks Spanish, Indian, or Arabic.

Think TSRs are hard to book and overpriced off the dining plan? Or maybe you don't like the service? Well,
I have two friends that work at one of the most expensive and hard-to-book restaurants on property... and it's not Americans eating there. To the contrary, they say it's mostly international guests that plan far enough in advance to find a table for this particular restaurant. It also sounds as if the restaurant has trouble staffing themselves with waiters that are both sufficiently multilingual AND capable of providing the guest service required for a restaurant of this stature - all, of course, while being complacent with what Disney pays its table service waiters (HINT: not a lot).

Perhaps you think the merchandise is too expensive? Not to the Latin American guests that can afford that intercontinental flight to Disney World. If I tell them price of a $29.95 tshirt, they'll shrug and go off to grab four more. They'll spontaneously add on candy and drinks and keychains at the counter even when I'm ringing them up to the hundreds. I'm not sure if they're unaware of how much they're spending, whether our inflation is that bad, or if the Latin Americans that find their way up here are just particularly loaded. Don't know really.

Don't like the state of the Imagination pavilion? No Brazilian guest knows what a Dreamfinder is. Wish that Epcot attractions still had beautifully written scripts, and not "Nemo? Nemo!" over and over? Gotta keep the language simple. I would even guess that part of the reason Soarin' and TSMM see such inflated wait times is because their appeal is so international, and devoid of needing a background in American ideology and cultural references (see: Hall of Presidents, Country Bear Jamboree, or even Enchanted Tiki Room, Universe of Energy and Carousel of Progress).

The truth is, I think Disney loves guests like these. They pile merchandise onto the counter and shell out hundred dollar bills like you wouldn't believe. Honestly, as a cast member, I couldn't really dislike guests like these either. They are often very polite and friendly in one-and-one interactions, especially to any CMs who speak their language (like me). Despite what threads here might say to the contrary, annoying guests come in all nationalities. In reality, it's only Americans that have yanked my neck down by my pin lanyard, complained loudly about our prices, asked over and over if Tinker Bell is actually a man, or any number of other questions I'm not allowed to answer. (Though as I said earlier, I still love and am always thrilled to see American guests - just making a point that American guests are just as likely to be annoying as anyone else).

Beyond just prices though, I wonder just how deeply this shift in audience is impacting WDW, and what kind of relationship these guests have with WDW's legacy as a vacation resort. These are guests who have never seen an Imagination with a Dreamfinder, an Everest with a working yeti, Contemporary without a Bay Lake Tower, a Disney TSR restaurant without the dining plan. Most of these guests have never seen WDW before it became, in all honesty, the giant machine for processing vacations that it has become today.

One of the biggest impacts, IMO, has been on branding, and the way the resort presents itself. These guests don't come for a nuanced study of global culture and history, as presented through themed attractions. Any American guest, regardless of whether they came for the hundredth time or for their first, can walk through Main Street, or Liberty Square, or Frontierland and identify it with a collective part of our national consciousness. Old Key West, the Boardwalk, and Port Orleans Riverside remind us of historic places many of us have actually been to. So many of us are raised on a WDW built on, not on Disney branding, but on images and settings familiar to American culture.

So to inverse this: how many Brazilians have any emotional connection to an Old Southern antebellum mansion when they see one? Guests that travel from Latin America come for a different reason: to visit one of the only physical places in the world built on the power of Disney branding. They can find a world-class resort much closer to home, if that's what they were looking for; more than any expectation of premiere quality and design, what they really came to experience was the breadth of the Disney brand. And that's why Disney now builds hotels themed to Disney characters and movies instead of the old South.

In WDW shops, many of our kitchenware products, pirate swords, toy rifles, bubble toys, and other non-Disney branded merchandise have at least a decent chance with American guests. But among Latin American guests, it is ALL about the branding. Not to over-stereotype here, but the sheer image of a Disney character on a $29.95 toy seems to be enough to get them to buy it. Perhaps not surprising; for the difficulty of getting here from a place so distant, they probably want to load up on branded merch not available at home.

Guests from 5,000 miles away don't wanted idealized recreations of American history, they don't want fine silverware from Liberty Square, they may not want even want Epcot's living blueprint of the future. They want to see all the princesses on the parade float, to see the castle, and to buy their photo on Splash Mountain for $18.95.

So this ultimately, I think is the root for so many of the changes we're seeing in the WDW of today. Many of us complain about prices, and wonder who in their right mind is going to be willing to pay over $100 for a single day in the parks anymore, or who would pay a grand for a room at the Grand Floridian, or even $4.95 for a lollipop... well, maybe we're just thinking too much like Americans, raised on the value of our own currency. While we complain and wonder who would pay so much, perhaps we should acknowledge that these prices are not being set for us. If we complain that Disney has torn out a classic World Showcase attraction and replaced it with a ride based on a hit princess movie, remember that many guests value seeing those characters more than they value an educational experience. Honestly, as long as Disney continues to see these guests as more profitable customers than middle-class Americans, I'm not sure how we can expect this to change.

I just saw this above post tweeted-recommended and recommended as a 1st ever recommendation of a forum post by
E.Cardon Walker, former/retired Disney Producer


And that was what President Obama's speech on Main Street was all about. Disney did not have an issue closing that portion of the park, interrupting operations of the day, disturbing guests vacation. The tone and direction was the new focus on international travel. It wasn't travel from Europe or Australia or Canada. It was specially mentioned as Brazil, India and China. And who are the lion share visitors to the Hawaii resort? The entire Asian market, not American's. The airfare alone prohibits that destination to so many Disney World fans.
 

jlsHouston

Well-Known Member
Yes. And my apologies for the mega-post.

This is one of the biggest things I've noticed in my recently ended stint as a cast member, and I was about to start a big thread on this myself, but couldn't quite find the words for it. But the average WDW audience has shifted dramatically away from the stereotype of the average American family saving up from their big trip to Orlando, and far toward foreign guests, many (or most) of whom travel independently from tour groups. I think tour groups tend to draw more attention to themselves, but there are many, many guests who travel from other countries (predominantly Latin America) on their own. (And for the record, far from just Brazilians - I'm fluent in Spanish, and it seems like we get many more Central Americans and Argentinians than Brazilians).

In many ways, I think this change of audience is actually one of the greatest challenges facing WDW right now. While Disney sees this as an opportunity for a new market and increased attendance, it causes some problems for us as Disney fans who care about the original intentions of the resort. I don't mean that in a racist way at all - I have had both wonderful and unpleasant interactions with guests from every country - but there is no denying a basic major truth in the way Disney now operates:

Disney no longer sees American guests as their main target audience anymore. Disney fans on sites like this one see foreign guests as an annoying group disrupting the WDW experience for the main audience... but the truth is that they now ARE the main audience, and the fact that Disney caters to them more than to us is likely one of the primary sources of discontent with how the resort is being run.

Don't like the prices at the deluxe resorts? You're not alone. I handled countless merchandise transactions involving package delivery, and if the person I was speaking to was in American English, I could guess 9/10 times that the package was going to Pop, one of the All-Stars, or off-property... with the occasional moderate or DVC. If the guest was foreign, it was probably going to a deluxe. I have friends that work as concierge at two of our most expensive deluxe resorts... and it's not primarily Americans staying there. One told me how almost every time he picks up the phone he has to pass it to a CM that speaks Spanish, Indian, or Arabic.

Think TSRs are hard to book and overpriced off the dining plan? Or maybe you don't like the service? Well,
I have two friends that work at one of the most expensive and hard-to-book restaurants on property... and it's not Americans eating there. To the contrary, they say it's mostly international guests that plan far enough in advance to find a table for this particular restaurant. It also sounds as if the restaurant has trouble staffing themselves with waiters that are both sufficiently multilingual AND capable of providing the guest service required for a restaurant of this stature - all, of course, while being complacent with what Disney pays its table service waiters (HINT: not a lot).

Perhaps you think the merchandise is too expensive? Not to the Latin American guests that can afford that intercontinental flight to Disney World. If I tell them price of a $29.95 tshirt, they'll shrug and go off to grab four more. They'll spontaneously add on candy and drinks and keychains at the counter even when I'm ringing them up to the hundreds. I'm not sure if they're unaware of how much they're spending, whether our inflation is that bad, or if the Latin Americans that find their way up here are just particularly loaded. Don't know really.

Don't like the state of the Imagination pavilion? No Brazilian guest knows what a Dreamfinder is. Wish that Epcot attractions still had beautifully written scripts, and not "Nemo? Nemo!" over and over? Gotta keep the language simple. I would even guess that part of the reason Soarin' and TSMM see such inflated wait times is because their appeal is so international, and devoid of needing a background in American ideology and cultural references (see: Hall of Presidents, Country Bear Jamboree, or even Enchanted Tiki Room, Universe of Energy and Carousel of Progress).

The truth is, I think Disney loves guests like these. They pile merchandise onto the counter and shell out hundred dollar bills like you wouldn't believe. Honestly, as a cast member, I couldn't really dislike guests like these either. They are often very polite and friendly in one-and-one interactions, especially to any CMs who speak their language (like me). Despite what threads here might say to the contrary, annoying guests come in all nationalities. In reality, it's only Americans that have yanked my neck down by my pin lanyard, complained loudly about our prices, asked over and over if Tinker Bell is actually a man, or any number of other questions I'm not allowed to answer. (Though as I said earlier, I still love and am always thrilled to see American guests - just making a point that American guests are just as likely to be annoying as anyone else).

Beyond just prices though, I wonder just how deeply this shift in audience is impacting WDW, and what kind of relationship these guests have with WDW's legacy as a vacation resort. These are guests who have never seen an Imagination with a Dreamfinder, an Everest with a working yeti, Contemporary without a Bay Lake Tower, a Disney TSR restaurant without the dining plan. Most of these guests have never seen WDW before it became, in all honesty, the giant machine for processing vacations that it has become today.

One of the biggest impacts, IMO, has been on branding, and the way the resort presents itself. These guests don't come for a nuanced study of global culture and history, as presented through themed attractions. Any American guest, regardless of whether they came for the hundredth time or for their first, can walk through Main Street, or Liberty Square, or Frontierland and identify it with a collective part of our national consciousness. Old Key West, the Boardwalk, and Port Orleans Riverside remind us of historic places many of us have actually been to. So many of us are raised on a WDW built on, not on Disney branding, but on images and settings familiar to American culture.

So to inverse this: how many Brazilians have any emotional connection to an Old Southern antebellum mansion when they see one? Guests that travel from Latin America come for a different reason: to visit one of the only physical places in the world built on the power of Disney branding. They can find a world-class resort much closer to home, if that's what they were looking for; more than any expectation of premiere quality and design, what they really came to experience was the breadth of the Disney brand. And that's why Disney now builds hotels themed to Disney characters and movies instead of the old South.

In WDW shops, many of our kitchenware products, pirate swords, toy rifles, bubble toys, and other non-Disney branded merchandise have at least a decent chance with American guests. But among Latin American guests, it is ALL about the branding. Not to over-stereotype here, but the sheer image of a Disney character on a $29.95 toy seems to be enough to get them to buy it. Perhaps not surprising; for the difficulty of getting here from a place so distant, they probably want to load up on branded merch not available at home.

Guests from 5,000 miles away don't wanted idealized recreations of American history, they don't want fine silverware from Liberty Square, they may not want even want Epcot's living blueprint of the future. They want to see all the princesses on the parade float, to see the castle, and to buy their photo on Splash Mountain for $18.95.

So this ultimately, I think is the root for so many of the changes we're seeing in the WDW of today. Many of us complain about prices, and wonder who in their right mind is going to be willing to pay over $100 for a single day in the parks anymore, or who would pay a grand for a room at the Grand Floridian, or even $4.95 for a lollipop... well, maybe we're just thinking too much like Americans, raised on the value of our own currency. While we complain and wonder who would pay so much, perhaps we should acknowledge that these prices are not being set for us. If we complain that Disney has torn out a classic World Showcase attraction and replaced it with a ride based on a hit princess movie, remember that many guests value seeing those characters more than they value an educational experience. Honestly, as long as Disney continues to see these guests as more profitable customers than middle-class Americans, I'm not sure how we can expect this to change.

Wow..you got recommended and re-tweeted on twitter..
 

jlsHouston

Well-Known Member
I just saw this above post tweeted-recommended and recommended as a 1st ever recommendation of a forum post by
E.Cardon Walker, former/retired Disney Producer


And that was what President Obama's speech on Main Street was all about. Disney did not have an issue closing that portion of the park, interrupting operations of the day, disturbing guests vacation. The tone and direction was the new focus on international travel. It wasn't travel from Europe or Australia or Canada. It was specially mentioned as Brazil, India and China. And who are the lion share visitors to the Hawaii resort? The entire Asian market, not American's. The airfare alone prohibits that destination to so many Disney World fans.

OMG I saw it too, I saw your other post about the ticket price increase tweets and opened twitter and then went I went on his page I saw this link!
 

englanddg

One Little Spark...
I just saw this above post tweeted-recommended and recommended as a 1st ever recommendation of a forum post by
E.Cardon Walker, former/retired Disney Producer
Maybe I'm misunderstanding this...that was tweeted / retweeted by Card Walker?

If so...that would be pretty epic. Not only because of his career / history with Disney, but also because Card Walker died in 2005.
 

jlsHouston

Well-Known Member
Maybe I'm misunderstanding this...that was tweeted / retweeted by Card Walker?

If so...that would be pretty epic. Not only because of his career / history with Disney, but also because Card Walker died in 2005.

Well who is using the name E Cardon Walker on twitter?
 

Mr Toad

Well-Known Member
Yes. And my apologies for the mega-post.

This is one of the biggest things I've noticed in my recently ended stint as a cast member, and I was about to start a big thread on this myself, but couldn't quite find the words for it. But the average WDW audience has shifted dramatically away from the stereotype of the average American family saving up from their big trip to Orlando, and far toward foreign guests, many (or most) of whom travel independently from tour groups. I think tour groups tend to draw more attention to themselves, but there are many, many guests who travel from other countries (predominantly Latin America) on their own. (And for the record, far from just Brazilians - I'm fluent in Spanish, and it seems like we get many more Central Americans and Argentinians than Brazilians).

In many ways, I think this change of audience is actually one of the greatest challenges facing WDW right now. While Disney sees this as an opportunity for a new market and increased attendance, it causes some problems for us as Disney fans who care about the original intentions of the resort. I don't mean that in a racist way at all - I have had both wonderful and unpleasant interactions with guests from every country - but there is no denying a basic major truth in the way Disney now operates:

Disney no longer sees American guests as their main target audience anymore. Disney fans on sites like this one see foreign guests as an annoying group disrupting the WDW experience for the main audience... but the truth is that they now ARE the main audience, and the fact that Disney caters to them more than to us is likely one of the primary sources of discontent with how the resort is being run.

Don't like the prices at the deluxe resorts? You're not alone. I handled countless merchandise transactions involving package delivery, and if the person I was speaking to was in American English, I could guess 9/10 times that the package was going to Pop, one of the All-Stars, or off-property... with the occasional moderate or DVC. If the guest was foreign, it was probably going to a deluxe. I have friends that work as concierge at two of our most expensive deluxe resorts... and it's not primarily Americans staying there. One told me how almost every time he picks up the phone he has to pass it to a CM that speaks Spanish, Indian, or Arabic.

Think TSRs are hard to book and overpriced off the dining plan? Or maybe you don't like the service? Well,
I have two friends that work at one of the most expensive and hard-to-book restaurants on property... and it's not Americans eating there. To the contrary, they say it's mostly international guests that plan far enough in advance to find a table for this particular restaurant. It also sounds as if the restaurant has trouble staffing themselves with waiters that are both sufficiently multilingual AND capable of providing the guest service required for a restaurant of this stature - all, of course, while being complacent with what Disney pays its table service waiters (HINT: not a lot).

Perhaps you think the merchandise is too expensive? Not to the Latin American guests that can afford that intercontinental flight to Disney World. If I tell them price of a $29.95 tshirt, they'll shrug and go off to grab four more. They'll spontaneously add on candy and drinks and keychains at the counter even when I'm ringing them up to the hundreds. I'm not sure if they're unaware of how much they're spending, whether our inflation is that bad, or if the Latin Americans that find their way up here are just particularly loaded. Don't know really.

Don't like the state of the Imagination pavilion? No Brazilian guest knows what a Dreamfinder is. Wish that Epcot attractions still had beautifully written scripts, and not "Nemo? Nemo!" over and over? Gotta keep the language simple. I would even guess that part of the reason Soarin' and TSMM see such inflated wait times is because their appeal is so international, and devoid of needing a background in American ideology and cultural references (see: Hall of Presidents, Country Bear Jamboree, or even Enchanted Tiki Room, Universe of Energy and Carousel of Progress).

The truth is, I think Disney loves guests like these. They pile merchandise onto the counter and shell out hundred dollar bills like you wouldn't believe. Honestly, as a cast member, I couldn't really dislike guests like these either. They are often very polite and friendly in one-and-one interactions, especially to any CMs who speak their language (like me). Despite what threads here might say to the contrary, annoying guests come in all nationalities. In reality, it's only Americans that have yanked my neck down by my pin lanyard, complained loudly about our prices, asked over and over if Tinker Bell is actually a man, or any number of other questions I'm not allowed to answer. (Though as I said earlier, I still love and am always thrilled to see American guests - just making a point that American guests are just as likely to be annoying as anyone else).

Beyond just prices though, I wonder just how deeply this shift in audience is impacting WDW, and what kind of relationship these guests have with WDW's legacy as a vacation resort. These are guests who have never seen an Imagination with a Dreamfinder, an Everest with a working yeti, Contemporary without a Bay Lake Tower, a Disney TSR restaurant without the dining plan. Most of these guests have never seen WDW before it became, in all honesty, the giant machine for processing vacations that it has become today.

One of the biggest impacts, IMO, has been on branding, and the way the resort presents itself. These guests don't come for a nuanced study of global culture and history, as presented through themed attractions. Any American guest, regardless of whether they came for the hundredth time or for their first, can walk through Main Street, or Liberty Square, or Frontierland and identify it with a collective part of our national consciousness. Old Key West, the Boardwalk, and Port Orleans Riverside remind us of historic places many of us have actually been to. So many of us are raised on a WDW built on, not on Disney branding, but on images and settings familiar to American culture.

So to inverse this: how many Brazilians have any emotional connection to an Old Southern antebellum mansion when they see one? Guests that travel from Latin America come for a different reason: to visit one of the only physical places in the world built on the power of Disney branding. They can find a world-class resort much closer to home, if that's what they were looking for; more than any expectation of premiere quality and design, what they really came to experience was the breadth of the Disney brand. And that's why Disney now builds hotels themed to Disney characters and movies instead of the old South.

In WDW shops, many of our kitchenware products, pirate swords, toy rifles, bubble toys, and other non-Disney branded merchandise have at least a decent chance with American guests. But among Latin American guests, it is ALL about the branding. Not to over-stereotype here, but the sheer image of a Disney character on a $29.95 toy seems to be enough to get them to buy it. Perhaps not surprising; for the difficulty of getting here from a place so distant, they probably want to load up on branded merch not available at home.

Guests from 5,000 miles away don't wanted idealized recreations of American history, they don't want fine silverware from Liberty Square, they may not want even want Epcot's living blueprint of the future. They want to see all the princesses on the parade float, to see the castle, and to buy their photo on Splash Mountain for $18.95.

So this ultimately, I think is the root for so many of the changes we're seeing in the WDW of today. Many of us complain about prices, and wonder who in their right mind is going to be willing to pay over $100 for a single day in the parks anymore, or who would pay a grand for a room at the Grand Floridian, or even $4.95 for a lollipop... well, maybe we're just thinking too much like Americans, raised on the value of our own currency. While we complain and wonder who would pay so much, perhaps we should acknowledge that these prices are not being set for us. If we complain that Disney has torn out a classic World Showcase attraction and replaced it with a ride based on a hit princess movie, remember that many guests value seeing those characters more than they value an educational experience. Honestly, as long as Disney continues to see these guests as more profitable customers than middle-class Americans, I'm not sure how we can expect this to change.
:happy:Screw it...gonna go on vacation in Hawaii instead...after my June trip to BWI of course
 

BiffyClyro

Well-Known Member
I think it's great that more groups of kids and organisations are going, even though they can be a bit irritating in line for attractions, I bet some kids may have never got the opportunity to go without those groups, so that's cool.

I think you're bound to see a slight change with the rising ticket prices. It's affecting families. My parers are in really good jobs and even they can't justify some of the ticket prices.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom