Change to the Pirates early 2018

[Mander]

Really, I have to question the sanity of anyone depending upon a fantasy theme park ride to define or forward important social concerns. This is ridiculous.

As a kid, I would have been excited to see a female pirate. Sure it is just fantasy but girls in the past were often excluded from anything but playing house or princess. It's nice to see Disney acknowledge that girls can be part of adventure stories too! They already do that with their movies, why not the parks?

I also don't think anyone is depending on a theme park ride for defining social concerns but it is nice to see positive societal change reflected in places like Disney World.

 

[OneofThree]

I have to disagree. I find Disney to be quite inspirational regarding taking care of the planet and choosing to make a difference by doing our part to take care of the earth. What about living with the land? What about the Circle of Life. I think Disney tries to be educational. Their movies introduce females in strong, independent roles. Yes, it is a fantasy theme park, and I'm glad it is, but they do some educational things.

I think most of us expect firms (particularly MNC's) to commit to a certain degree of sustainable operations. The problem with your point IMO, is that no one is harmed by the ride, and the potential for any positive, productive outcomes of the change is highly questionable. This is why I termed the move as "politics, for politics' sake". The product here is fantasy -escape. It's what WDW is all about, has always been all about.

 

[Mander]

I think most of us expect firms (particularly MNC's) to commit to a certain degree of sustainable operations. The problem with your point IMO, is that no one is harmed by the ride, and the potential for any positive, productive outcomes of the change is highly questionable. This is why I termed the move as "politics, for politics' sake". The product here is fantasy -escape. It's what WDW is all about, has always been all about.

No one will be harmed by the new ride, either. I think you significantly underestimate the positive outcomes from seeing people who look like you represented in things like this.

 

[larryz]

I also don't think anyone is depending on a theme park ride for defining social concerns but it is nice to see positive societal change revisionist history reflected in places like Disney World.

FTFY.

 

[OneofThree]

No one will be harmed by the new ride, either.

I'll take that as affirmation.

I think you significantly underestimate the positive outcomes from seeing people who look like you represented in things like this.

Lol -no. I've got three daughters; three. Please shoot me and put me in the ground the day I rely on a theme park ride to help inform their self-concepts or social values. Just wow.

 

[Mander]

FTFY.

There were literal female pirates. They existed.

We are also having a conversation about a ride that features Johnny Depp in a park with a land called "Fantasyland". Even if they didn't exist, it wouldn't matter.

 

[larryz]

There were literal female pirates. They existed.

We are also having a conversation about a ride that features Johnny Depp in a park with a land called "Fantasyland". Even if they didn't exist, it wouldn't matter.

True, but pirates probably* didn't spend their days auctioning off goods between/among each other... and frankly, expounding on your point, since it is "fantasy," it doesn't much matter what's in it whether it exists or not.

* I say "probably" because I'm not a pirate expert, but I have yet to come across an account of a pirate auction for pilfered goods.

 

[Mander]

I'll take that as affirmation.



Lol -no. I've got three daughters; three. Please shoot me and put me in the ground the day I rely on a theme park ride to help inform their self-concepts or social values. Just wow.

Where did I say I relied on a theme park ride to inform my social views?

I just said it's nice to see this change. We aren't far from a time when girls could only play house and princess. I think it's great that a female pirate is featured.

To add, my Dad also has three daughters. We were discussing this change a few days ago (he is on vacation there right now) and he thought it was cool.

 

[Mander]

True, but pirates probably* didn't spend their days auctioning off goods between/among each other... and frankly, expounding on your point, since it is "fantasy," it doesn't much matter what's in it whether it exists or not.

* I say "probably" because I'm not a pirate expert, but I have yet to come across an account of a pirate auction for pilfered goods.

They probably could have come up with a better "story" for that scene, I'll give you that. I'm withholding final judgement till I see it finished but I don't think it will matter to the overall ride experience.

 

[OneofThree]

Where did I say I relied on a theme park ride to inform my social views?

I guess you meant everyone, except you:

I think you significantly underestimate the positive outcomes from seeing people who look like you represented in things like this.

I just said it's nice to see this change. We aren't far from a time when girls could only play house and princess.

My sister grew up riding POTC. My sister is also a accomplished PhD. Again, politics for politics' sake.

 

[larryz]

My sister grew up riding POTC. My sister is also a accomplished PhD. Again, politics for politics' sake.

Is her PhD in Pirate History, by any chance?

 

[OneofThree]

Is her PhD in Pirate History, by any chance?

I know this may come as a shock to a great many people, but sadly, Disney Imagineers failed in that the themes of the ride somehow failed to resonate significantly within her psyche.

 

[KBLovedDisney]

Well, I guess this means I got to take myself out of Disney World too, because I have pirates in my family history (who looted all of the treasure and lost it somehow...go figure, not to mention that we got kicked out of our homeland because we started stealing from locals). Yay family!

 

[Mander]

I guess you meant everyone, except you:






My sister grew up riding POTC. My sister is also a accomplished PhD. Again, politics for politics' sake.

I really think you're reaching with your interpretation of what I said. There are plenty of people who will enjoy having a female pirate in the ride. I don't think it's going to change the world or anything but I think there are many who will enjoy it. Especially young girls who like things like pirates! I think it is a positive thing for girls to see themselves in all sorts of imaginative stories- be it via a theme park ride, media, or their own play. I already stated that I don't think the original ride actively hurt anything but I do think this version is better.

I'm a bit confused about the relevance of your sister's PhD, though good for her.

 

[RustySpork]

FTFY.

Again, Disney World is not a history museum.

 

[OneofThree]

I really think you're reaching with your interpretation of what I said.

TBH, I think you're struggling with your own interpretations of what you've said. Here's another example:

I just said it's nice to see this change. We aren't far from a time when girls could only play house and princess.

I'm a bit confused about the relevance of your sister's PhD,

Subsequently, I will QFT myself:

Really, I have to question the sanity of anyone depending upon a fantasy theme park ride to define or forward important social concerns. This is ridiculous.

 

[Mander]

TBH, I think you're struggling with your own interpretations of what you've said. Here's another example:





Subsequently, I will QFT myself:

I know what I said but I'm not going to keep this going. We can agree to disagree and I'll just look forward to seeing the change.

 

[EricPZ]

Instead of Jack Sparrow, why not depict some real pirates?
http://www.history.com/news/history-lists/5-notorious-female-pirates

 

[Bender123]

No one will be harmed by the new ride, either. I think you significantly underestimate the positive outcomes from seeing people who look like you represented in things like this.

Just for reference...

How many rides does the MK have with a defined human male protagonist? The only ones I can think of are Buzz Lightyear (arguable...because the guest is clearly labeled as the protagonist) and Pirates...Peter Pan is an elf...and specifically androgynous...I cant think of where that character fits on this lineup.

Rides with female leads? Little Mermaid.

Its not exactly like the theme park has much specifically gendered lead characters...Its a virtual tie at 1 vs 1.

That being said, many of the rides that are not on this list are not really geared very strongly at either gender...Pooh, Space Mt, BTM, Splash, JC, Tiki Room, etc...

I would say its a vast overstatement to claim there is a lack of female lead representation at the MK, when there is basically a tie at 1 and the vast majority aren't geared toward either direction.

 

[Chicagoshannon2]

I prefer my kids don't see pirates as heros. The auctioning off of people shows them that pirates aren't good. Depicting them as just auctioning off goods doesn't give a clear picture of who/what pirates are. The scene they are destroying really brings home the point that pirates aren't good. Without that scene the point is missed.