Cast Member Wages

[flynnibus]

That graph doesn't have anything to do with executives versus laborers. The graph shows a gap between increased productivity and real wages

BECAUSE CLEARLY YOU DIDN'T READ THE ARTICLES... you just looked at the one linked graphic and called it a day.

Separately, "sharing the success" with the workers means the workers are more expensive, which means that automation will accelerate and have a deleterious effect on the livelihoods of the people these policies purport to protect.

READ THE ARTICLES... the link was provided for a reason.

The articles go on further... and have graphs like these

And the very f'ing title of the article is 'We Decide How to Share Gains'

 

[Disney.Mike]

Congrats... Now once you actually get some actual experience you might see more of the world and stop being dismissive of things beyond your horizon.

Growth at the bottom is easy because it's full of crap. It's when you move beyond the top 10 percent or so the game changes significantly.

No upward mobility in the military? Man you are in for a rude awakening if you think that...

1: If you consider the bottom starting at 90k a year in rural Louisiana then ok...

2: I'm aware the next 50k in raises will take longer than the previous simply because there are less positions at the top for me to move into.

3. Yes I meant what I said about the military... waiting 3 years just to be eligible for promotion and then competing against guys who have been stuck in rank for 10 years to get a promotion based on a point system that rewards mediocrity and longevity over merit wasnt for me... this is coming from a guy who made E-6 in 6 years... got out at 8.

4. I think I have plenty of actual experience...

 

[Matt_Black]

IF the productivity increase is solely due to automation, then really, it's the ROBOTS that should see increased wages, not the executives.

Again, I have no problem with executives being paid more, as they have numerous expenses that the worker does not. Fancy suits, travel, etc. However, I believe that US executives are grossly overpaid. To go back to Japan, I'd say they've got it right, as the average executive is paid about 10 times more than the average worker. That seems fair.

 

[flynnibus]

1: If you consider the bottom starting at 90k a year in rural Louisiana then ok...

2: I'm aware the next 50k in raises will take longer than the previous simply because there are less positions at the top for me to move into.

3. Yes I meant what I said about the military... waiting 3 years just to be eligible for promotion and then competing against guys who have been stuck in rank for 10 years to get a promotion based on a point system that rewards mediocrity and longevity over merit wasnt for me... this is coming from a guy who made E-6 in 6 years... got out at 8.

4. I think I have plenty of actual experience...

The military has a set system designed to actually move people upward. You generally won't find that in the private sector. Every 'career development' system is bogus and you should take advantage of it to ensure you get the maximum value from any and all offerings (training, education, etc), but its nothing like the promotion ladder in the military. There is no continuous upward train designed to promote people like you have in the military. You face an uphill battle where there is little to no structure, or incentive, to push employees upward. The military at least has structure, policy, and a machine to grow people. In the private sector, moving beyond middle management is no longer a HR topic, but a game of thrones

And yes, my other point was, the first part of the race is the easiest to differentiate yourself from the mob. Because the lowest levels are usually filled with junk, and the creame quickly rises up. The game changes as you move from 'worker' to management and beyond.

While big companies like mine have fixed ladder systems and pay grades like you have in civil service or the military... it's just a tool for HR.. there is none of this 'well you've been a level 10 for 3 years now, so you're eligible for level 11'. You gotta fight for merit increases and even simple COLA updates. You'll get used to the idea of payroll being frozen... aka we aren't promoting anyone across the board.. so your individual performance is nice to acknowledge, but won't actually get you anything no matter how well you do because your management is powerless to work outside the mandates from above, etc. It can be much more of a wild west where getting things through can be very tricky.

Glad you made a successful transition into the private sector... but you're just seeing the start now. 20+ years from now you'll probably have a different view

 

[Disney.Mike]

IF the productivity increase is solely due to automation, then really, it's the ROBOTS that should see increased wages, not the executives.

Again, I have no problem with executives being paid more, as they have numerous expenses that the worker does not. Fancy suits, travel, etc. However, I believe that US executives are grossly overpaid. To go back to Japan, I'd say they've got it right, as the average executive is paid about 10 times more than the average worker. That seems fair.

No its not fair... the average executive contributes wayyyyy more than 10x the average worker.

 

[Matt_Black]

No its not fair... the average executive contributes wayyyyy more than 10x the average worker.

Be honest- do you actually believe that the average executive is worth TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY TIMES more than the average worker? Because that's what the US average is.

 

[xdan0920]

No its not fair... the average executive contributes wayyyyy more than 10x the average worker.

Source?

 

[Matt_Black]

Here's a source with an actual breakdown by company based on a 2013 study. Based on that study, the average Disney executive makes 283 times what the average worker does. Does that seem either fair or merited to you?

 

[Disney.Mike]

@flynnibus ,

My comment about upward mobility in the military was that their ladder system rewards longevity and mediocrity instead of excellence. The structure is setup to where you spend years before you are eligible then have to compete on their point system against people who have just been floating around for YEARS, accumulating points. Some people like this system and the career mapped out for them... I hated it.

Yes, I am used to the payroll freezes, we have had several them due to the company splitting into 2 separate public companies and then merging with another large company. During they past year and a half, only a handful of people have successfully navigated raises (these were done as "title changes" , and not merit raises) I was one of the few at our location of 1k people, the company I'm with employees over 40k people and is one of the largest IT government contract comapnies. In our company Title Change = promotion/demotion depending on what its changed to.

That said, I acknowledge that I have 1, possibly 2 more promotion/title changes I can receive before it becomes a Game of Thrones scenario for me to move up but my comment wasnt meant that everyone who doesnt make it to the C suite is a failure, honestly I may or may not and thats fine. My comment was directed about people who never try to improve themselves and want to blame management pay.

 

[Disney.Mike]

Here's a source with an actual breakdown by company based on a 2013 study. Based on that study, the average Disney executive makes 283 times what the average worker does. Does that seem either fair or merited to you?

Yes, because the average is skewed low because of the mass amount of low wage/non skilled workers at the parks.

Disney is more than just service workers, they are a entertainment empire that employs thousands of professionals across virtually all professional skillsets. If you can find a chart that removes the non skilled park positions and places CEO salary against the average professional salary then we can discuss, and my opinion could change.

 

[Gabe1]

Some CMs take the job because they love Disney. Others, because they need employment, and yet some will take it because they know employers like seeing that name on a resume.

^This

Having a kid that did the college program that is the upside. So many of his friends have made it to the top of a pile of applications for an interview upon graduating college and there is always discussion about working for Disney. My DD who did not do the program noted all the Disney toys on her interviewer's desk and worked in Disney into the conversation as my DD knew Disney inside and out. She then learned the lady was a CP years ago like her brother. While my DDs expertise is what ultimately got her hired Disney packs a punch and opens up mutual conversations during interviews. My DD also has a part time job in a Park District. Human Resource Director annually use to send down different employees each year for a week at The Disney Institute. She too was a CP.

It certainly isn't the pay the students take away when they leave the college program as a good chunk of the earnings are deducted from their checks for absorbent rent each week. My DS had more disposable income away at his University where he had a part time campus job, rented an apartment with far less people living in it for dramatically less each month. While he had the time of his life wages was not what he took away from the College Program.

 

[Matt_Black]

Well, how about this- since we can't account for that in Disney, how about we use a comparison company. Microsoft's ratio is 11:1, Hewlett-Packard is 6:1. I can't imagine they have that many low/ unskilled workers. Now, even if we take out the unskilled workers, I'm still betting Disney execs are overpaid.

 

[flynnibus]

For those of you not familiar with the details of such reach-around deals when we are talking about the 'executives' and how the game differs for their blue blood vs everyone else.

I present this example... this is what a nearly $20 MILLION dollar buyout looks like.
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/858877/000119312515209142/d935750dex101.htm

First, we pay you 18months of your salary.. ok, not so bad considering your amount of time with the company, and this is not so uncommon to pay employees for seniority. But we are also going to pay you your bonus for that period... nice cherry... 2.2 million. Not super shocker, right? 1.2 million a year.. in today's world, that's not crazy you might say..

We'll pay your COBRA premiums for you for up to 18months.. generous.. 36k dollars. Rank and file.. you pay that yourself.

But then we offer to immediately vest all your pending RSUs (something rank and file don't get.. and trust me.. you lose a TON for this).. for 289863 shares.. which at the market value at the time was $29.18 which means 8.4 MILLION. (which also means, he was earning at least that much in the two years prior.. if not far more)

Then, if you are a good boy, 2 years from now, we'll give you ANOTHER 275000 shares (aka another 8 million dollars)

Plus, participation in the retirement vesting program for your other shares, AND an extension to exercise your existing options.

All of this for a Sales EVP... who got passed over for the CEO role. This is a value probably well north of 20 million dollars for simply saying "thanks for playing, please leave because your new boss didn't hire you and wants to put his own people in place"

Who after just six weeks, was then selected to be CEO of Musk's Hyperloop company.. a company setup to build a train line. Lloyd has been nothing but a sales manager/executive his entire career. What background does he have in technology R&D, transportation, or even anything remote to what Hyperloop is aiming to do or target?

This is what the 'executive' loop looks like...

 

[flynnibus]

@flynnibus ,

My comment about upward mobility in the military was that their ladder system rewards longevity and mediocrity instead of excellence. The structure is setup to where you spend years before you are eligible then have to compete on their point system against people who have just been floating around for YEARS, accumulating points. Some people like this system and the career mapped out for them... I hated it.

Well you will see similarities in the private sector as well when you deal with large companies. The larger the company, the less the company trusts each individual to make good choices.. so the replacement for trust is policy and/or systems. Instead of people being evaluated individually, they will be evaluated based on metrics that a formula can be used to justify the moves. Some of this is protection against lawsuits, most of it is because the company inherently doesn't empower its people to operate independently for lack of trust. They argue its for 'consistency' - but if you consistently put the best people in charge, their decisions should average out to be the best choices. Instead, framework, policy, and metrics replace personal evaluations and actions.

My comment was directed about people who never try to improve themselves and want to blame management pay.

But this is usually a general cop-out used to blanket smother people who speak up on this topic... regardless of their actual individual motivation or performance. It's a position that speculates that your achievement is only limited by your ambition and effort. This is a theory that assumes the system is FAIR and open.

Reality is it's not... it's not a fair and open system. You will find that performance is not rewarded equally.. and that people will be protected and showered gifts upon not based on merit/value, but often because of who controls the purse and their agendas.

I'm not contesting at all that you must be the master of your own destiny, nor am I contesting that there are plenty of people who just want handouts for doing what they are SUPPOSED to be doing.. but this blanket 'its your fault' attitude is a fallacy that either ignores, or is flat out ignorant of the realities of a corrupt/broken system.

 

[aw14]

Well, how about this- since we can't account for that in Disney, how about we use a comparison company. Microsoft's ratio is 11:1, Hewlett-Packard is 6:1. I can't imagine they have that many low/ unskilled workers. Now, even if we take out the unskilled workers, I'm still betting Disney execs are overpaid.

Out of curiosity, over paid based on who's definition? Again, the hypocrisy of this thread is a tad mind numbing (no disrespect to you). We would all accept this "over payment". With that said, on the time commitment alone, the financial reimbursement should illustrate a staggering difference.

My current position is such that I am considered "CEO"-like in my field. I put in far more time and commitment than those that work for me. So for the sake of quality of life alone there has to be an overall compensatory value.

With that said, I cannot say if that should be 10-1 or 200-1. I personally have no preference as it is up to the companies themselves that set that bar. Again, we gloss over that no one forces the lower tier employee to work for Disney. That is their choice.

 

[Hakunamatata]

Here's a source with an actual breakdown by company based on a 2013 study. Based on that study, the average Disney executive makes 283 times what the average worker does. Does that seem either fair or merited to you?

Maybe not. But I don't think the dolt that looks at me with that stupid glazed look on his face when I tell him the ketchup dispenser is empty deserves $15 an hour either.

 

[ParentsOf4]

Maybe not. But I don't think the dolt that looks at me with that stupid glazed look on his face when I tell him the ketchup dispenser is empty deserves $15 an hour either.

Please join me on a few business trips and I'll introduce you to several executives pulling in over $100/hour who have that "stupid glazed look" on their faces.

 

[flynnibus]

Out of curiosity, over paid based on who's definition? Again, the hypocrisy of this thread is a tad mind numbing (no disrespect to you). We would all accept this "over payment"

Its this assumption of greed or selfish behavior that is part of the social problem underpinning this issue.

The idea of 'we would all accept this' is not universal. The idea of RESPONSIBLE BEHAVIOR is actually valued in other societies.. that the self is not more important than everyone else. The idea that someone can be objective, even if it means 'less' for you is not foreign to all.

It's not communism to try to correct irresponsible behavior and unsustainable trends. America were not communists when they broke up the trusts, or decided higher incomes should pay higher taxes. The idea of unbridled capitalism has proven over and over to not serve the greater good.

 

[Hakunamatata]

Where have we seen unbridled capitalism? Even in America we have always had laws that were intended to protect the citizen. There has never been a fully unbridled capitalistic society has there?

 

[TLtron]

Wages will not fix the more insidious, underlying problem in our country if things don't change to slow inflation. Think it's bad times now with entry-level workers having to share an apartment with a few roommates in order to make ends meet? Well what's it going to be like when your law enforcement, nurses, teachers, business owners, tech workers... cannot comfortably afford to live in most regions of the U.S.? (And no, that is not an exaggerated forecast if the current cost of living trends continue). Should those people be told they simply need to smile bigger, work harder, step up productivity, and their worries will disappear?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-21/the-rent-crisis-is-about-to-get-a-lot-worse
http://www.housingfinance.com/news/we-can-no-longer-ignore-the-rental-affordability-crisis_o
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/09/a-bleak-future-for-renters/406453/
http://www.takepart.com/article/2016/06/02/fight-for-15-cant-solve-americas-rent-crisis
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/10/ame...lity-crisis-is-about-to-go-from-bad-to-worse/
http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/17/opinions/housing-affordability-crisis-ny-primary-opinion-lazio/
http://money.cnn.com/2015/12/09/real_estate/renters-cant-afford-rent/
http://www.aspentimes.com/news/22289563-113/emergency-worker-and-her-family-priced-out-of
http://www.takepart.com/article/2015/10/06/now-tech-workers-are-getting-priced-out-san-Francisco
http://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2016...teachers-cant-afford-to-live-where-they-teach

As our population influx grows, you can bet this is only the tip of the iceberg.