RunnerEd
Well-Known Member
Nothing says stay off the train like a claymore mine on each side....
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Casey Jr. Being "Reassessed"
- Thread starter Amused to Death
- Start date
Nothing says stay off the train like a claymore mine on each side....
Couple points---
River Country was not closed due to the water quality issues (although the very rare potential of a waterborne illness or a drowning in the murky water surely didn't help). Just like how Discovery Island was closed shortly after Animal Kingdom opened, RC became obsolete because TL and BB were more cost-effective in terms of handling bigger crowds, maintenance, staffing, and ease of guest transportation.
I find it hard to believe the Casey Jt fence is strictly an ADA issue. That engine looks like a tempting thing for kids to easily climb on, which would be dangerous if there was rubber mulch underneath. Throw in a brick floor, slippery wet painted surfaces, and powerful water jets pushing kids off, and that engine is a cracked skull waiting to happen. Without the fence, kids would be climbing on top of the engine (not just in it) and likely trying to sit or stand on the smokestack.
For those who criticized Casey Jr just from seeing online photos or videos--- you MUST see it in person. It is absolutely a joy to watch. Think of it as the Fantasyland version of Epcot's "Fountain of Nations". If Disney had originally put a fence around the entire area, making Casey Jr simply a decorative fountain meant to be viewed from a distance, people would have applauded it as a fun piece of water art---with the only complaint being that kids couldn't run in it!
And for those concerned about the whole "recirculated water" issue, calm down. The water has a light but noticeable scent of chlorine. It's not warm toddler pee as some have implied. It is no different than splash parks found all over the place (but the design is like nothing elsewhere)
River Country was not closed due to the water quality issues (although the very rare potential of a waterborne illness or a drowning in the murky water surely didn't help). Just like how Discovery Island was closed shortly after Animal Kingdom opened, RC became obsolete because TL and BB were more cost-effective in terms of handling bigger crowds, maintenance, staffing, and ease of guest transportation.
I find it hard to believe the Casey Jt fence is strictly an ADA issue. That engine looks like a tempting thing for kids to easily climb on, which would be dangerous if there was rubber mulch underneath. Throw in a brick floor, slippery wet painted surfaces, and powerful water jets pushing kids off, and that engine is a cracked skull waiting to happen. Without the fence, kids would be climbing on top of the engine (not just in it) and likely trying to sit or stand on the smokestack.
For those who criticized Casey Jr just from seeing online photos or videos--- you MUST see it in person. It is absolutely a joy to watch. Think of it as the Fantasyland version of Epcot's "Fountain of Nations". If Disney had originally put a fence around the entire area, making Casey Jr simply a decorative fountain meant to be viewed from a distance, people would have applauded it as a fun piece of water art---with the only complaint being that kids couldn't run in it!
And for those concerned about the whole "recirculated water" issue, calm down. The water has a light but noticeable scent of chlorine. It's not warm toddler pee as some have implied. It is no different than splash parks found all over the place (but the design is like nothing elsewhere)
ExtinctJenn
Well-Known Member
I think the key being that it was originally designed to be climbed in/around (based on the steps and the play things inside). Sure it may not be strictly ADA... it may be someone said "Doh! What happens if a kid slips on that wet step and crashes into the concrete?" But it could also be ADA from the perspective of "Mommy look at all the kids inside Casey, why can't I get my wheelchair up there to play too?" Who knows. We could all be wrong and probably are! It's probably something more like they put the fence up to do a study on how many dumb parents would try to get their kids over/through it. LOL!
Congrats! I always knew that that fence wasn't going to keep kids from climbing over it. And I just think that it's crazy that that mom actually helped her child get in.Anyone with half a brain knew this was going to happen:
Mom helps her daughter squeeze through the fence.
Big guy caught in the act.
Three in the cab plus one in the tender.I noticed a group of four or five Disney managers/engineers closely watching Casey Jr. today and I couldn't help but engage them in a conversation about "the fence."
They told me that they're in the process of "reassessing" Casey Jr.
One was quick to agree with me that the fence was a stupid idea. "I told them it wasn't going to work," he said.
I pointed out that because the kids are climbing over the fence, it's actually far more dangerous than having nothing there at all. They said they're worried about getting complaints from guests about Casey Jr. not being ADA compliant if they remove the fence — that handicapped children will also want to climb aboard the train.
I gave them my solution: 1) Remove the fence; 2) Remove the steps leading up to the cab; 3) Close off access to the cab with either metal or clear plexiglas door panels. Two of them said, "Sounds good. Let's do it." Another one added, "If you come back in a couple of weeks and see that we've done exactly that, you can tell everyone it was your idea."
It will be interesting to see what they end up doing with Casey Jr. At the moment, the fence is an accident waiting to happen.
xdan0920
Think for yourselfer
Dang witches, ruining everything.
lebeau
Well-Known Member
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
You wouldn't think witches and water parks would mesh, would you?
Unless that's what their plan was all along.
Unless that's what their plan was all along.
Baloo62
Well-Known Member
This seriously made me laugh out loud. Too funny!
Patricia Melton
Well-Known Member
Sorry, my post was really just in jest. i just really loved River Country when it was still around...and back then I was young enough that I didn't think about the possibilities of deadly/icky stuff in the water.
Bubbles,
I don't know how old you are, but I'm inching closer to 60 every year. Sometimes I think it's bizarre how germ-phobic and terrified of tiny things society has become in the last couple of decades. If I had to trace when this happened, it would be to the mid-1980s. I think it has to do with the AIDS epidemic and the news coverage that got. That's when people started being afraid of finding needles on the beaches and of "catching things". Prior to this, I think the only thing I ever heard people really worry about when going anywhere was getting food poisoning or possibly diarrhea from the water if they went to Mexico. The next wave of panic after AIDS was e-coli and dying from mad cow disease. The news media is 100% to blame for all of this, since they terrify people to generate ratings.
Nowadays, people are terrified of so many things, and it's mostly because the news needs them to be terrified to keep them watching MSNBC for updates on all the things they should be afraid of.
If human beings were so fragile that playing in water could kill them then we'd all have died out as a species a long time ago.
Most things that Disney does in regard to closing things like River Country really have to do with being afraid of being sued and removing any potential for lawsuits. They don't want to take the chance on being the media's next horror story focus, whether there really is any danger in the water or not. I run an aquaculture business and know a thing or two about ponds and standing water and see the danger of lawsuits against Disney as much greater than any risk of someone really getting sick.
Patricia Melton
Well-Known Member
You know what this photo reminds me of?
In my garden in my backyard, I have all my tomato plants, cucumbers, and other veggies in plots that are fenced off with chicken wire to keep out the rabbits. My husband dug down a good foot and a half so the wire will keep the rabbits out even if they try digging under the fence.
One of the momma rabbits is smart though. I had to stake the garden out to see how she was getting her babies through the fence to eat the veggies. She would bring them to the edge of the fence and then would pick each baby up individually by the scruff of the neck and throw them over the fence. The fence is about two feet high so she really has to throw them hard but she does succeed in plopping them over the fence. Once they are inside, the rabbits eat as much as they want and then when they are ready to leave they just climb on top of the tomato plants and other stalks and can get over the fence to get out. They just had trouble getting in because there was nothing to climb on around the outside of the fence. Momma rabbit solved that problem though.
In all my years, it's the most amazing thing I've seen animals do. It's scary smart.
But when I see the moms helping their kids climb that Casey Jr. fence all I can think is 'stupid, stupid, stupid'. It's one thing for rabbits to do this to get to food...but it's just plain wrong of that mom in the photo to plop her kids over a fence at Disney.
BrittanyRose428
Well-Known Member
I don't know how Disney would handle it, but I would assume the CMs would speak to the parents. Either way its a sticky situation, I have to deal with this at work and its just terrible. I work at a museum in Boston that was originally a Puritan meeting house, so we have box pews with the doors on the end and balcony seating with a very low railing. Whenever there are kids in the museum we always watch them to make sure they're not hanging over the rails on the balcony, or slamming the doors of the pews. And of course, all too often, there are parents who don't seem to watch their own kids at all. When I see someone's kid hanging over the balcony it can be a headache. I would usually tell the parent, and say something like "Can you please make sure your son/daughter is not hanging over the balcony, the railings here are very low and it could be dangerous". That usually works, but sometimes parents don't seem to like that you're telling them how to parent their kids. And if you tell the child directly, you run the risk of the parent also being upset that you're again basically parenting their kids.This situation can get even worse when you can't tell which kid belongs to which parent. If a CM speaks to one of the kids and they don't do anything, the next step would be to approach the parents, but if you can't tell who the parents are that would get complicated too.
I don't see a problem with the attraction itself, but with the parents, and Disney can't really do anything about that.
bubbles1812
Well-Known Member
I am actually 24...today!
Honestly, I do agree that our society can be a little germaphobic at times. That's the theory of why so many kids have allergies nowadays. Basically by not letting our children play in the mud, their immune systems weren't allowed to develop quite the right way when they are young. Thus, you get more allergies.That being said... I am currently training to be in the medical field and I've seen way too many things at this point not to understand why people can be afraid of "catching things." You step on a needle or nail and you run the risk of tetanus. Mortality rates rank from 43% to as high as 73% depending on the population. Watching a baby struggle to breathe because her muscles are essentially paralyzed because they are spasming so bad is a hard hard thing to forget. There is a reason they give people the Tdap vaccine if you report you stepped on a needle.
And with E.coli, while most of the time people get sick you basically get the equivalent of diarrhea or nausea/vomit, with kids it's a little different. There are some really nasty strains of E.coli out there and one causes something called Hemolytic Uremic Syndrome (HUS) With aggressive treatment, 90% usually come through but can you imagine having to watch your child go into acute kidney failure with bloody diarrhea, bloody urine, anemia, and a whole lot of other bad things, and possibly suffer complications related to that for the rest of their life? And the mortality rate runs 5-15% for HUS, with kids and the elderly having the greatest chance.
Now these are relatively rare occurrences, granted, but they do happen, and yes obviously if we were so fragile we would have died out as a species a long time ago. We are designed to survive. But call me crazy but I wouldn't want my child going through something like that, and if there was something I could do to mitigate that risk, I would. Now do I think there is E.Coli in the Casey's Play Area? No, probably not, especially if they are using chlorine. But if you asked me the place that has the greatest chance of having E.Coli...it would be in the fountains and play areas. So it's not something I'd personally go into, or would have my kids play in.
And amoebas, which were purportedly in River Country, can be really really dangerous, more so than even some of the stuff I've already mentioned. There is one type that can cause death in about a week if it's not treated. And sometimes it's hard to figure out what is going on because hardly anyone thinks of amoeba right off the bat. So as much as I loved River Coutnry, I would definitely want the to clean that place or they would have to do some rigorous water testing.
Is the American media guilty of sensationalism? Yes. Definitely. And they do it a lot. And of course they want ratings. But sometimes the things they report on especially in the medical field are actually as scary as the seem. The recent report of the girl with the flesh eating bacteria...that is something that is very very real, rare, but again, very real, and she was a healthy girl. Imagine what it could have done to a kid or elderly person.
Patricia Melton
Well-Known Member
Happy Birthday!
Patricia Melton
Well-Known Member
Today I was talking with a friend of mine about the Casey's play area and she asked me if I would have let my kids run around through it back when they were young (they're in their 30s now, so if they ever want to run through that they are old enough to make that decision for themselves).
My kids grew up in the 80s and started high school around 1990 or so (my daughter is a few years older than my son, but both were out of high school by the mid-90s).
I can honestly say there was never a time that I ever undressed either of them in public and let them run around in their underpants. I can't remember ever doing that even at a friend's house. If it was summer time, I typically had a swim suit for each of them in the trunk of our car (and I always had two changes of clothes for both of them in the car until they were in Jr. high, just for emergencies). The swim suit was just in case we'd be out somewhere and we'd happen by a friend who had a pool or we'd see a water slide park or something. I was a girl scout growing up and they taught us to be prepared.
It might be a cultural thing, but it kind of horrifies me to see parents strip their kids down to underpants and let them run around fountains at Disney parks. That's what we in Ohio would call "trailer trash" mentality. I don't mean to offend anyone because that is just the term that is used. I don't think the general public should ever see you in your underpants unless you are three stories tall and plastered on a billboard in Times Square looking like Antonio Sabato Jr. in his Calvins.
I'm also very concerned about perverts being out and about. My son is gay and I don't know if this had anything to do with it, but when he was about 9 or 10 I started to notice that very strange, old, single men would watch him when we were out at malls and things. My son Robby was very good looking and had that classic apple pie boy next door kind of look to him. For a while, I became convinced that someone was going to snatch him in the mall and I had to really get a grip on myself and not let that become an obsession but you need to remember that the story of Adam Walsh terrified me. For those of you who don't know, the only thing I can equate it to is 9/11. Remember how you felt after 9/11 when that happened? Well, Adam Walsh's kidnapping and murder was like 9/11 for a parent in the 1980s.
I would never, ever in a million years strip my son down to his underpants and let him run around ANYWHERE in public where I didn't know everyone around and where perverts could seize the opportunity to turn the event into a show for them to enjoy.
But, clearly, parents today feel differently. WDW is a very safe place and I assume that security keeps an eye out for perverts who'd want to gawk at kids in the parks...but i think they need to be very vigilant around the Casey play area. Little kids in their undies being splashed with water might be a magnet for the perverts.
So...after I have processed all of THESE issues that I have with the idea of letting my kids run around the Casey area I'd have to say that no, even if the pervert issue and the trailer trash vibe were solved somehow I still wouldn't let my kids get drenched in that water. I'd let them run through it and I'd be right there with them but if they really wanted to be in the water I'd tell them that we could leave MK and go to Typhoon Lagoon or go back to the hotel to swim in the pool if they wanted. I think I'd limit a visit to Casey to be under 10 minutes after a ride on Dumbo.
Then, we'd walk around Fantasyland seeing the sight until they dried off...or we'd grab something quick to eat and sit in the sun and dry off before going on another ride. I would never in a million years dream of taking my kids on a ride while wet. I just would not want to make a mess that would inconvenience another family.
it's weird thinking of some of these issues because most of this stuff I have not had to deal with for 25 years now, since my kids were in junior high. It's amazing how much has changed and what parents today allow their children to do.
My kids grew up in the 80s and started high school around 1990 or so (my daughter is a few years older than my son, but both were out of high school by the mid-90s).
I can honestly say there was never a time that I ever undressed either of them in public and let them run around in their underpants. I can't remember ever doing that even at a friend's house. If it was summer time, I typically had a swim suit for each of them in the trunk of our car (and I always had two changes of clothes for both of them in the car until they were in Jr. high, just for emergencies). The swim suit was just in case we'd be out somewhere and we'd happen by a friend who had a pool or we'd see a water slide park or something. I was a girl scout growing up and they taught us to be prepared.
It might be a cultural thing, but it kind of horrifies me to see parents strip their kids down to underpants and let them run around fountains at Disney parks. That's what we in Ohio would call "trailer trash" mentality. I don't mean to offend anyone because that is just the term that is used. I don't think the general public should ever see you in your underpants unless you are three stories tall and plastered on a billboard in Times Square looking like Antonio Sabato Jr. in his Calvins.
I'm also very concerned about perverts being out and about. My son is gay and I don't know if this had anything to do with it, but when he was about 9 or 10 I started to notice that very strange, old, single men would watch him when we were out at malls and things. My son Robby was very good looking and had that classic apple pie boy next door kind of look to him. For a while, I became convinced that someone was going to snatch him in the mall and I had to really get a grip on myself and not let that become an obsession but you need to remember that the story of Adam Walsh terrified me. For those of you who don't know, the only thing I can equate it to is 9/11. Remember how you felt after 9/11 when that happened? Well, Adam Walsh's kidnapping and murder was like 9/11 for a parent in the 1980s.
I would never, ever in a million years strip my son down to his underpants and let him run around ANYWHERE in public where I didn't know everyone around and where perverts could seize the opportunity to turn the event into a show for them to enjoy.
But, clearly, parents today feel differently. WDW is a very safe place and I assume that security keeps an eye out for perverts who'd want to gawk at kids in the parks...but i think they need to be very vigilant around the Casey play area. Little kids in their undies being splashed with water might be a magnet for the perverts.
So...after I have processed all of THESE issues that I have with the idea of letting my kids run around the Casey area I'd have to say that no, even if the pervert issue and the trailer trash vibe were solved somehow I still wouldn't let my kids get drenched in that water. I'd let them run through it and I'd be right there with them but if they really wanted to be in the water I'd tell them that we could leave MK and go to Typhoon Lagoon or go back to the hotel to swim in the pool if they wanted. I think I'd limit a visit to Casey to be under 10 minutes after a ride on Dumbo.
Then, we'd walk around Fantasyland seeing the sight until they dried off...or we'd grab something quick to eat and sit in the sun and dry off before going on another ride. I would never in a million years dream of taking my kids on a ride while wet. I just would not want to make a mess that would inconvenience another family.
it's weird thinking of some of these issues because most of this stuff I have not had to deal with for 25 years now, since my kids were in junior high. It's amazing how much has changed and what parents today allow their children to do.
Taylor
Well-Known Member
Happy birthdayI am actually 24...today!
That being said... I am currently training to be in the medical field and I've seen way too many things at this point not to understand why people can be afraid of "catching things." You step on a needle or nail and you run the risk of tetanus. Mortality rates rank from 43% to as high as 73% depending on the population. Watching a baby struggle to breathe because her muscles are essentially paralyzed because they are spasming so bad is a hard hard thing to forget. There is a reason they give people the Tdap vaccine if you report you stepped on a needle.
And with E.coli, while most of the time people get sick you basically get the equivalent of diarrhea or nausea/vomit, with kids it's a little different. There are some really nasty strains of E.coli out there and one causes something called Hemolytic Uremic Syndrome (HUS) With aggressive treatment, 90% usually come through but can you imagine having to watch your child go into acute kidney failure with bloody diarrhea, bloody urine, anemia, and a whole lot of other bad things, and possibly suffer complications related to that for the rest of their life? And the mortality rate runs 5-15% for HUS, with kids and the elderly having the greatest chance.
Now these are relatively rare occurrences, granted, but they do happen, and yes obviously if we were so fragile we would have died out as a species a long time ago. We are designed to survive. But call me crazy but I wouldn't want my child going through something like that, and if there was something I could do to mitigate that risk, I would. Now do I think there is E.Coli in the Casey's Play Area? No, probably not, especially if they are using chlorine. But if you asked me the place that has the greatest chance of having E.Coli...it would be in the fountains and play areas. So it's not something I'd personally go into, or would have my kids play in.
And amoebas, which were purportedly in River Country, can be really really dangerous, more so than even some of the stuff I've already mentioned. There is one type that can cause death in about a week if it's not treated. And sometimes it's hard to figure out what is going on because hardly anyone thinks of amoeba right off the bat. So as much as I loved River Coutnry, I would definitely want the to clean that place or they would have to do some rigorous water testing.
Is the American media guilty of sensationalism? Yes. Definitely. And they do it a lot. And of course they want ratings. But sometimes the things they report on especially in the medical field are actually as scary as the seem. The recent report of the girl with the flesh eating bacteria...that is something that is very very real, rare, but again, very real, and she was a healthy girl. Imagine what it could have done to a kid or elderly person.
bubbles1812
Well-Known Member
Thank you! And that goes to Patricia too. It's been a good day.
Taylor
Well-Known Member
I'm glad you like my billboard
. About the kids in the underwear thing I have 3 toddler brothers and sister which means I usually have to help my parents alot with them and one of my brothers I swear look away two seconds and he is stripped down in his underwear what I'm saying is sometimes its not the parents fault. And it doesn't mean there "trailor trash" because of it
unkadug
Follower of "Saget"The Cult
Bingo...if you prevent being exposed to certain things then you will never build up an immunity.
I feel that the whole hand sanitizer thing is causing more people to become ill in the long run than it is preventing illness
Biff215
Well-Known Member
I agree on all points. We were there a few weeks ago and got to check it out in person. First, I definitely could smell the chlorine, even from Dumbo and the train station. I love that smell, so this was a welcome addition for me!
I also feel that the design of the area was done really well, it looks like a lot of fun. It did feel a little bit right in the middle of everything, and as a parent, I would have preferred it to be to the side a bit more. It's almost impossible to miss if you ride Dumbo, Barnstormer, or the train, so it's a nightmare for parents who might be trying to bypass Casey.
We managed to convince our daughter to skip it, however. I don't have a problem with the safety of the area but didn't really want to have her in a bathing suit or wet clothes while in the MK. The resort pools more than satisfied her throughout the week during our midday breaks, but I certainly understand why a parent or child would want to cool off in there, especially if they were spending the entire day at the park.
We found Storybook Circus to be an incredibly hot area in general. There is very little shade and everything seems to reflect the hot sun right back onto you. Hopefully this will be addressed as they put the finishing touches on everything, but maybe the water area was the answer to this. Either way it is a great addition to the park IMO!