From Bill Zanetti (Professor at the University of Central Florida):
I have edited some of Bill’s posts for clarity.
“Keeping the rivers open as is would eventually flood the utilidoors. Something has to be done. Major riverbed maintenance, maybe even full replacement, is required. So all the company is doing here is trying to solve some ops issues and get a good ROI.”
“There’s too much potential for overflow in addition to some issues in the actual retaining walls that need replacing and asbestos removal. Happy to go into it more but it was explained to me by an urban planner / industrial engineer so it gets detailed.”
“The utilidoors literally are up against the retaining wall in Frontierland and they’re littered with asbestos. It’s a huge deal.”
“I don’t have a duck in this fight. I’m just telling you what I’ve been told by some EXTREMELY high up people within the company. You are acting like I’m some kind of corporate shill. If you can’t take my word for it, then you’ll have to go talk to someone at CFTOD that has been in water management for at least 15 years. They’ll confirm that WDW’s flood control systems have been pushed to their limits for a very long time now and major changes have been implemented to deal with a lot of development around property. I don’t know how detailed they’ll be about the RoA, but I’m sure they will talk about it at least a little and explain to you that ANY major bodies of water create issues in that area. The utilidoors are at risk and this project with the new proposed drainage systems and retention ponds would partially alleviate some of that risk.
I will also tell you that the powers at be didn’t take removing the RoA lightly. They brainstormed multiple solutions that didn’t go as far and this is the one that made the most economic sense. There are plenty of other ways to fix the problems at hand… but no one wants to spend that much to fix it. We’re talking almost a billion dollars here. Try to convince any company to spend that much on something without any visible ROI. Good luck!”
The utilidors do not go up against the Rivers of America, not even some top secret area not included on the publicly available maps. This can be seen in the various overlays that people have done over the years. It can also be seen in just looking at photos of the river bed and how it is constructed, which is as a simple mat. Nor do those photos show an area being patched to try and slow the leaks. An undocumented section would also need egress points which do not pop up in Frontierland along the water’s edge.
Disney undertook a massive, pre-emptive asbestos abatement program back around the turn of the century. The Magic Kingdom and utilidors were the primary focus. This is why the Shooting Gallery space has not been sealed off for abatement while it is being converted into a DVC lounge, they did that work years ago. Asbestos that is in place and in good condition is not what is dangerous, it’s damaged asbestos that is dangerous. It was also mostly used in insulation and fire protection products.
Let’s though assume the information relayed is correct. That the utilidors do go right up to the Rivers of America and that area is full of asbestos. First, if the area is damaged and leaky, then that means the asbestos is damaged and Disney is exposing thousands of employees day in and day out. Second, a wall that is designed to hold up against water wouldn’t have the same structural design as one intended to hold up soil. Last, and this is the important one, a leaky wall means water is already able to get into it. Despite how things were over half a century ago, the utilidors are a basement condition and will remain a basement condition after these projects are complete. If water can get into now then it will still be able to get in even after the body of water is gone. Water will still be in the ground and following along those same pathways that it is following now. The utilidors are also made of reinforced concrete, so everyday that water coming through is corroding the steel rebar that gives the concrete its strength. All together, what’s being described isn’t “some ops issues” but gross negligence putting employees and guests at serious risk. This isn’t something they can just wait on, especially if the fix is somehow in the billion dollar range (that’s not how much it should cost to replace a concrete wall). And yet they haven’t even bothered to put up a cofferdam to relieve the stress on the wall and dramatically slow the leaking.
That billion dollar price tag is also something to consider. We’re talking about replacing a concrete wall and it’s a number that’s just too high. Universal excavated a new basement under existing buildings for
The Bourne Stuntacular and such costs would have made that prohibitive. Disney hasn’t aggressively pursued buying back the Marvel rights for Florida in part because it would add too much cost to projects. New, different work, would cost more than going with a version of what exists, and so these new lands already have a billion+ against them with nothing to show for it?
You also think CFTOD was searching for any dumb thing to point to as a problem and just decided to ignore this? Actual public danger in the world’s busiest theme park was not juicy enough? And then not just this specific issue but the whole system being inadequate? That everybody there is more loyal to the ousted leadership? The same for the South Florida Water Management District which also oversees the area?
The real cherry on top though is citing an urban planner / industrial engineer. Those are generally different things but could overlap in a theme park as they deal with master planning and crowd flow. Neither though is a discipline that would be involved in any aspect of this supposed issue, which would be civil and structural engineering. It’s like saying you learned something about Catholic beliefs from a rabbi. The rabbi is a religious leader and may know, but it’s a rather silly authority to reference. Zanetti not only doesn’t know the technical material involved but doesn’t even know who would.
