EricsBiscuit
Well-Known Member
IIRC, the RoA are also below the elevation of the utilidoors. Might be wrong on that one.
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MK Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom
- Thread starter wdwmagic
- Start date
Stripes
Premium Member
Zanetti worked at Disney for over 10 years and has spent a lot of time in the utilidors himself.
I’ve asked him about the arguments and challenges you raised in the earlier post. We’ll see if we hear back.
I’m just looking for the truth. Nothing more. Nothing less.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
So? He’s not special in that regard. People also get disoriented in spaces without reference points. It’s not just maps that don’t show this space but the blueprints for them as well.
You have better critical thinking skills than this. Just the claims about CFTOD knowing about a serious safety issue and letting it slide should have your BS alarm blaring. Are you really going to buy it if he suddenly remembers that he was talking to a different type of engineer?
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
Watch any of his YouTube videos - he’s not a trusted source of information.
Why you want to discredit actual imagineers (and highly respected ones at that) but want to build up this guy is beyond me.
Why you want to discredit actual imagineers (and highly respected ones at that) but want to build up this guy is beyond me.
Orange is the new Red
Well-Known Member
If you are looking for the truth don’t stop here. Lots of hot air here! You are wise to go else where. Regardless of what this angry man says, he has no idea what critical thinking is.
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TheMaxRebo
Well-Known Member
Well, not everything is an eTicket - Journey or Water is a recent example of something that isn't
But they know it is the eTickets that draw people in and that people are willing to spend extra on
So think any project will be anchored buy something they can monetize and then complemented with smaller attractions (the 2nd Cars attraction, the Carousel and play area in Tropical Americas, etc)
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Imagineer is not a discipline. It’s an employment status with a company that hires a wide variety of disciplines and specialties. In this case, while Walt Disney Imagineering would be involved to a degree, for this hypothetical their involvement would be in the design of any replacement. Actual responsibility would fall to FAM and they would hire third party engineers to do the serious work. I haven’t seen the specific rebuttals, so I’m not speaking to them, but we do need to be careful because it can still be a dubious appeal to authority.
flynnibus
Premium Member
I feel like you just discovered Bill and feel like you just uncovered a gem. He was a regular of the forums during his CM years and early career days. Probably more on Micechat than here if I recall... it's been nearly 20yrs.
He was a front line CM who I think ended up with an intership with WDI and eventually worked at some low level gopher stuff in the professional side of the company. Then as you can see went academia and stuck with it after working his grad school positions. These Theme Park/hospitality programs are a lot more 'practical' backgrounds than they are some huge tell of prior stature. He's junior faculty at ucf and seems like he pivoted to stay in that space now.
He's always been a Disney nerd and was the type that was gitty with his access he had when he finally got beyond just being a front line CM. This isn't some 'former Imagineer Eddie Sotto' - It's just someone who can legitimately claim he worked inside and has spent his adult life immersed in the topic.
I mean good for Bill that he's made a career out of his passion in theme parks.. but keep perspective. At the core he's a fanboi with friends
Stripes
Premium Member
I haven’t come to any conclusions but surely you recognize that there are significant gaps in our knowledge about this situation as well as the CFTOD situation. Let’s see what he has to say, if anything.
I’m not going to buy that he was talking to a different type of engineer, but perhaps this industrial engineer is familiar with the issues due to conversations about the project with the structural and civil engineers.
Stripes
Premium Member
I think being a fan and posting on forums shouldn’t have any bearing on one’s perceived credibility.I feel like you just discovered Bill and feel like you just uncovered a gem. He was a regular of the forums during his CM years and early career days. Probably more on Micechat than here if I recall... it's been nearly 20yrs.
He was a front line CM who I think ended up with an intership with WDI and eventually worked at some low level gopher stuff in the professional side of the company. Then as you can see went academia and stuck with it after working his grad school positions. These Theme Park/hospitality programs are a lot more 'practical' backgrounds than they are some huge tell of prior stature. He's junior faculty at ucf and seems like he pivoted to stay in that space now.
He's always been a Disney nerd and was the type that was gitty with his access he had when he finally got beyond just being a front line CM. This isn't some 'former Imagineer Eddie Sotto' - It's just someone who can legitimately claim he worked inside and has spent his adult life immersed in the topic.
I mean good for Bill that he's made a career out of his passion in theme parks.. but keep perspective. At the core he's a fanboi with friends
There are lots of people that post here that have established significant credibility.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
This is circular reasoning. There’s only a gap because he has made ridiculous claims. It’s all built around a space that only this one person knows about, that contradicts other available information.
Going to point out that you represented the industrial engineer as an “actual engineer working on the project” in response to rebuttals.
flynnibus
Premium Member
I didn't say his credibility was harmed by his posting.. I'm just telling you when you post his linked in and repeat that he's a professor at UCF... (really just instructor).. it's not some big peacock strutting into the chat. Most of the folks who have been around long enough are all familiar with Bill and what he really is.
Epcot82Guy
Well-Known Member
I'm interested to see which quote you mean. I can't think of one off hand, though it's been awhile since I've been backstage. (And I would be curious to see when it was posted, especially if during Iger's reign.) I'm not saying it doesn't exist. But, if you look at the volumes of quotes from Walt about the parks, his creations, the 1964 worlds fair, etc., you can see he had a very different view of how themed entertainment venues can work vs. what is happening today. I'm not personally a big fan of "What Would Walt Do", because it's a very different world today than when he was around. I simply think cherry picking one quote (that ironically supports Iger's personal view) while ignoring tons of his quotes about quality, being in the parks, innovation, risk taking, etc. is a more accurate representation of his views.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
yeah…. It gets tricky. Anyone who gets paid from WDI is technically “an imagineer” but then there are “Imagineers” like Tony, Joe, Marty, Kevin, Bob, Kim, etc….
I feel like Eddie Sotto falls into that camp and his opinions are rooted in a deep knowledge of the parks and what is feasible.
This is exactly what I was trying to figure out how to say but not sure how to put it.I mean good for Bill that he's made a career out of his passion in theme parks.. but keep perspective. At the core he's a fanboi with friends
Stripes
Premium Member
Zanetti stated that he talked to an industrial engineer working on this project. Are you saying that the Cars project would not need any kind of industrial engineer that would collaborate with the structural and civil engineers?
CaptJackSparrow
Active Member
How funny we’ve arrived at a point where forum members are mocking Eddie Sotto, and other forum members are acting as if Zanetti is somehow on par with him. Strange days.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
I was bored at lunch and looked at his timeline and some more of these claims.
Every few years isn’t all that regular. There are also photos of the most recent times this has occurred. Those photos don’t show the sort of work that these alleged problems would require. That often don’t show any work along the edges of the River. The work is generally track maintenance, clearing out the sediment that naturally accumulates at the bottom of the river bed.
That the utilidors were built at approximately what was grade over fifty years ago is a fun piece of trivia. It has absolutely no bearing on how the utilidors function as a building system. Once something is buried it is buried. It would be sort of like claiming that Tokyo Disney Resort is built on water because that area used to be the water of Tokyo Bay. The site was changed. If you’re building something you have to build it for what exists now or what will exist when you are done. A basement wall is not built the same as a wall built above grade, the utilidors are built as basements and would have failed long ago if they were not.
Here he is backing away from the claim that the utilidors go right up to the river bed. 30-40 is not at all close and is a completely different condition. That’s 30-40 feet that should be soil mostly covered by hardscape. So much water in that space that it’s causing serious and constant leaks means a sink hole is there and Disney is knowingly allowing it to grow. A sinkhole that would be not just under guest walkways but also portions of buildings. And such a problem wouldn’t be limited to just the utilidors area, it would mean there are serious water issues around the entire river, including under Big Thunder Mountain Railroad where active construction work is occurring and they’re not digging it out to solve this serious problem.
Who is mocking Eddie? His name has been mentioned but not in any sort of negative way. Quite the opposite, in fact.