News Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom

[BuzzedPotatoHead89]

Only 1 did. Also I regret never riding the chew chew train haha

The Chew Chew train was cute but it was also extremely short. Like the length of a glorified shopping mall kiddie train short.

It’s too bad it wasn’t plussed up to be the equivalent of Casey Jr.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I had once thought it would be inconceivable that anyone would regard losing a *walk-through* attraction as being equal to gaining a *ride* attraction -- just an even swap! And the forums be quiet about that equivocation.

But I guess that's how you can trivialize getting 4 new rides in TSL and GE in place of a tour, a show, and mostly empty streets, and a playground. Shall we also count a lost food cart in the equation?

If Disney were to ever replace a *ride* attraction with a *walk-through* attraction, y'all would be marching on Glendale immolating yourselves.

They're not equatable. Until you want to score a point against Disney, it seems.

 

[Architectural Guinea Pig]

I had once thought it would be inconceivable that anyone would regard losing a *walk-through* attraction as being equal to gaining a *ride* attraction -- just an even swap! And the forums be quiet about that equivocation.

But I guess that's how you can trivialize getting 4 new rides in TSL and GE with a tour, a show, and mostly empty streets, and a playground. Shall we also count a lost food cart in the equation?

If Disney were to ever replace a *ride* attraction with a *walk-through* attraction, y'all would be marching on Glendale immolating yourselves.

They're not equatable. Until you want to score a point against Disney, it seems.

Sadly, this is all too true.

 

[Raineman]

This whole thread seems to be one big circular argument now. The people that are good with this change will never understand why the rest of us don't want the change. We keep telling them it's more about RoA and TSI providing a setting and atmosphere and relaxing kinetics, than it is about losing 2 attractions, but they keep focusing on attraction loss. They are completely missing the point, and are too stubborn to listen. I'm sure they'll be smugly standing there, clapping their hands, as that end of MK is turned into one big construction crater for years. It will be so nice walking thought Liberty Square and Frontierland, seeing construction walls the whole way, and hearing various loud construction tools and banging instead of the Liberty Belle whistle. So absolutely magical.

 

[Schmidt]

The RoA and the riverboat are a core part of the thematic cohesion of a good chunk of the MK. That’s what people are talking about losing and very different from anything done at DCA. (Although there are parallels with ToT)

I’d invite you to reread the thread if you think “attraction count” is the relevant point of contention for many people in this thread. That said, the WDW parks probably all need added capacity - which expansion rather than replacement could deliver. People aren’t wrong to point that out even if that isn’t the root problem for Cars in Frontierland.

I’d also be remiss in not pointing out that Villains isn’t going on the RoA plot. It’s Cars that is replacing the RoA - bad faith arguments about operational concerns notwithstanding.

Sounds like you have a profound emotional attachment to this river. I like the river, but changing the aesthetic isn’t necessarily a bad thing if executed upon properly. I think this area will go along way in updating a park that feels tired at times, especially this area. Anyway just wanted to provide a different thought to the ultra negative echo chamber that occurs here from time to time.

In

 

[Schmidt]

This whole thread seems to be one big circular argument now. The people that are good with this change will never understand why the rest of us don't want the change. We keep telling them it's more about RoA and TSI providing a setting and atmosphere and relaxing kinetics, than it is about losing 2 attractions, but they keep focusing on attraction loss. They are completely missing the point, and are too stubborn to listen. I'm sure they'll be smugly standing there, clapping their hands, as that end of MK is turned into one big construction crater for years. It will be so nice walking thought Liberty Square and Frontierland, seeing construction walls the whole way, and hearing various loud construction tools and banging instead of the Liberty Belle whistle. So absolutely magical.

What happened to emotional intelligence on this board??? I’m all for conversation both positive and negative, but what’s going on feels more akin to old guys trying to strong arm others through mostly false narratives. I’ve had more discussions with people on this board just to realize they were lying at the end of the text. This is how people are choosing to spend their time? Crazy.

Also this thought that these attractions aren’t drastically improving capacity is a joke. Can we stop pretending like the Liberty Bell, Tom Sawyer Island, prieval world, and triceratops spin, etc helped with capacity.

 

[Raineman]

What happened to emotional intelligence on this board??? I’m all for conversation both positive and negative, but what’s going on feels more akin to old guys trying to strong arm others through mostly false narratives. I’ve had more discussions with people on this board just to realize they were lying at the end of the text. This is how people are choosing to spend their time? Crazy.

It's frustrating that people won't listen to what someone is saying and understand what they are saying even if they don't believe it or agree with it. There are two extreme viewpoints to this change, and I think that's where the issue lies. This whole situation is even more polarizing than the Splash/TBA thing-but thank God there are no sociopolitical aspects to this one; that would be ugly.

 

[phillip9698]

This whole thread seems to be one big circular argument now. The people that are good with this change will never understand why the rest of us don't want the change. We keep telling them it's more about RoA and TSI providing a setting and atmosphere and relaxing kinetics, than it is about losing 2 attractions, but they keep focusing on attraction loss. They are completely missing the point, and are too stubborn to listen. I'm sure they'll be smugly standing there, clapping their hands, as that end of MK is turned into one big construction crater for years. It will be so nice walking thought Liberty Square and Frontierland, seeing construction walls the whole way, and hearing various loud construction tools and banging instead of the Liberty Belle whistle. So absolutely magical.

So condescending.

We aren’t missing the point, and we understand completely what you are talking about. We just don’t agree that large of a footprint should remain when most people are indifferent to outright avoid those features.

You are the minority but parade around like the only reason people don’t agree with you is because they lack the capability to understand.


You can keep some water flowing through that area without dedicating a riverboat and an abandoned island to prime real estate.

 

[CoasterCowboy67]

It's frustrating that people won't listen to what someone is saying and understand what they are saying even if they don't believe it or agree with it. There are two extreme viewpoints to this change, and I think that's where the issue lies. This whole situation is even more polarizing than the Splash/TBA thing-but thank God there are no sociopolitical aspects to this one; that would be ugly.

There are several reasons for discontent here. I was responding to the repeated argument that DLR is only using expansion pads / not replacing existing attractions while WDW is doing the opposite. Clearly that’s not true, and DLR just announced yet another classic attraction lost to Avengers at DCA in the form of the Red Trolley

I can totally buy the argument that ROA / TSI provides sightlines, a calm environment, and kinetics. But why are we assuming Cars won’t either? Especially after Disney went out of its way to tell us they’ve been thoughtful about how to integrate this version of Cars into the concept of the wilderness

I personally would rather they shorten the river and only do Villains with a bridge/walkway connecting Thunder and Mansion, but mostly because I’d rather they spend the Cars budget on a another big project for DHS

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

But I guess that's how you can trivialize getting 4 new rides in TSL and GE in place of a tour, a show, and mostly empty streets, and a playground. Shall we also count a lost food cart in the equation?

cause everyone doesn’t like rides and Disney used to have a mix of attractions for all ages.

Even though the location is odd - the Moana walk through is a refreshing modern day example of Disney getting this right.

 

[Quietmouse]

I think the boat helps make the park feel alive. It’s the movement of the trolley on Main Street, the boat circling around Tom Sawyer island, the train whizzing past each stop…it definitely creates a sense of liveliness within the park rather than static.

likewise, I do think there are ways to make this cars area, based around a national nature park, to feel equally alive but just in different ways.

If they are able to empathize the movement of water, thru the water falls to the streams it can ultimately create kinetic energy in different ways.

If they are able to implement some hidden trails that guests can access to create a faux hiking experience and some hideaway spots that kids can play and burn energy, I think the loss of the island and the boat will be, at the very least, mitigated.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

So condescending.

Umm…. Pretty sure this is the definition of condescending -

You are the minority but parade around like the only reason people don’t agree with you is because they lack the capability to understand.

 

[Raineman]

So condescending.

We aren’t missing the point, and we understand completely what you are talking about. We just don’t agree that large of a footprint should remain when most people are indifferent to outright avoid those features.

You are the minority but parade around like the only reason people don’t agree with you is because they lack the capability to understand.


You can keep some water flowing through that area without dedicating a riverboat and an abandoned island to prime real estate.

Condescending? You mean like the smug, passive-aggressive attitude some people on your side of this issue have been projecting, completely dismissing anyone else's opinions? And what evidence/data would lead you to the conclusion that it's the minority of people that don't want RoA removed? Also, why do you care about "prime real estate"? Are you in Disney park ops? Do you work in their financial department? How does it personally affect you as a guest if they built these Cars attractions beyond RoA instead of replacing them? This is what I don't understand. Most of us don't have a problem with Cars attractions-the problem lies with where they are building them.

 

[Horizons '83]

I think the boat helps make the park feel alive. It’s the movement of the trolley on Main Street, the boat circling around Tom Sawyer island, the train whizzing past each stop…it definitely creates a sense of liveliness within the park rather than static.

likewise, I do think there are ways to make this cars area, based around a national nature park, to feel equally alive but just in different ways.

If they are able to empathize the movement of water, thru the water falls to the streams it can ultimately create kinetic energy in different ways.

If they are able to implement some hidden trails that guests can access to create a faux hiking experience and some hideaway spots that kids can play and burn energy, I think the loss of the island and the boat will be, at the very least, mitigated.

Great point. The little things make a big difference. When we last stayed at the Grand Floridian, there was something calming hearing the Liberty Belle from a distance. Much like hearing the train whistle as well.

 

[Bocabear]

You can hear that whistle from Bay Lake Tower....which is lovely...

 

[abaker1975]

What I feel is there is certainly no "blessing of size" when it comes to the actual parks at WDW. I would say that the size of the whole resort is a "curse" as all it does is make the parks miles from each other. I can't understand why Disney is not expanding the parks they have, to at least make them as attraction dense as the Californian parks.

I think for me Disneyland California is a lot better proposition, 2 parks, close to each other with a high density of attractions existing and more to come over the next few years.

 

[phillip9698]

Actually not condescending at all.

You are right, telling people that you know what’s best for them and the only reason they don’t agree is because they are incapable of understanding you isn’t condescending at all.

This isn’t germ theory we are talking about here. It’s a river and island that fans have rejected for decades.

 

[JD80]

I had once thought it would be inconceivable that anyone would regard losing a *walk-through* attraction as being equal to gaining a *ride* attraction -- just an even swap! And the forums be quiet about that equivocation.

But I guess that's how you can trivialize getting 4 new rides in TSL and GE in place of a tour, a show, and mostly empty streets, and a playground. Shall we also count a lost food cart in the equation?

If Disney were to ever replace a *ride* attraction with a *walk-through* attraction, y'all would be marching on Glendale immolating yourselves.

They're not equatable. Until you want to score a point against Disney, it seems.

It's not worth it at this point. (edit: but as I write this post, apparently it is because it's long!)

Those that are lamenting the loss of RoA and TSI are validated in their feelings. It's not wrong to miss what was always there especially with nostalgia and everything else tied up in to it. This is a major change and some people don't like change.

However, because this opinion is mostly based on emotion, they are more likely than not to see those that are excited for this addition to be one monolithic block looking to take something away from them which makes conversation and discussion difficult. If you want true understanding it has to go both ways.

Now with that being said as a person who is very excited for this change, here are a few things in my brain as I read this conversation:

1. They have to nail this project. It's going to be right there in front of everyone. If it sucks, it's going to massively blow up in their face.
2. Some are disappointed about the loss of the Riverboat and claim, with good reason, that it's loss will be a loss of kinetic energy in the park. This is a great point, however it also ignores any additional kinetic energy from the attraction. Waterfalls, rivers/streams, cars and god knows what else may add to the kinetic energy of this area. If this is not in the same realm as the boat see #1.
3. Some are disappointed about the loss of water and it's natural beauty etc. This is also a legitimate concern both emotionally and objectively. However they are also ignoring the fact that the concept art (though it is just concept art) does show the design intent to add waterfalls, streams, and other water features throughout the land.
   
   Also, I'd like to point out that there is natural beauty in mountains and trees. Think Wilderness Lodge or anyone vacationing in the Rockies out in Colorado. It's beautiful out there.
   1. I have to also comment that when this is pointed out it is often handwaved away because "lol concept art, look at this other concept art from 10 years ago where there was something different". This is disingenuous and just adds to the nonsense.
4. Anyone still reading this? The last point is Expansion vs. Replacement. This argument is incredibly semantic and dumb. Especially since they are replacing two often ignored attractions with two modern attractions, additional shops and a whole lot more walking space that will be used.

One other thing to consider is that Carsland is probably the first steps in a whole lot of other future projects. Carsland allows for Villains and then whatever comes next (think areas where the laydown yards will be to the west).

Building a kiddie cars attractions allows for them to finally rip out the speedway (a replacement no one will argue is a bad thing). Ripping out the speedway then leads them to (hopefully) replacing/reimagining Tomorrowland by working on MiLF, Stitch, Speedway and giving Buzz a much needed facelift.

All long term plans that will probably change and get cancelled over and over, but I believe there is some kind of vision here and some pieces need to fall in to place first. Let's see who the new CEO will be in a year or two.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

This is a major change and some people don't like change.

“some people don’t like change” sounds like a pre-school teacher trying to be sugary sweet and saying “you simply can’t understand that this is the best thing”

 

[Incomudro]

It's not worth it at this point. (edit: but as I write this post, apparently it is because it's long!)

Those that are lamenting the loss of RoA and TSI are validated in their feelings. It's not wrong to miss what was always there especially with nostalgia and everything else tied up in to it. This is a major change and some people don't like change.

However, because this opinion is mostly based on emotion, they are more likely than not to see those that are excited for this addition to be one monolithic block looking to take something away from them which makes conversation and discussion difficult. If you want true understanding it has to go both ways.

Now with that being said as a person who is very excited for this change, here are a few things in my brain as I read this conversation:

1. They have to nail this project. It's going to be right there in front of everyone. If it sucks, it's going to massively blow up in their face.
2. Some are disappointed about the loss of the Riverboat and claim, with good reason, that it's loss will be a loss of kinetic energy in the park. This is a great point, however it also ignores any additional kinetic energy from the attraction. Waterfalls, rivers/streams, cars and god knows what else may add to the kinetic energy of this area. If this is not in the same realm as the boat see #1.
3. Some are disappointed about the loss of water and it's natural beauty etc. This is also a legitimate concern both emotionally and objectively. However they are also ignoring the fact that the concept art (though it is just concept art) does show the design intent to add waterfalls, streams, and other water features throughout the land.
   
   Also,I'd like to point out that there is natural beauty in mountains and trees. Think Wilderness Lodge or anyone vacationing in the Rockies out in Colorado. It's beautiful out there.
   1. I have to also comment that when this is pointed out it is often handwaved away because "lol concept art, look at this other concept art from 10 years ago where there was something different". This is disingenuous and just adds to the nonsense.
4. Anyone still reading this? The last point is Expansion vs. Replacement. This argument is incredibly semantic and dumb. Especially since they are replacing two often ignored attractions with two modern attractions, additional shops and a whole lot more walking space that will be used.

One other thing to consider is that Carsland is probably the first steps in a whole lot of other future projects. Carsland allows for Villains and then whatever comes next (think areas where the laydown yards will be to the west).

Building a kiddie cars attractions allows for them to finally rip out the speedway (a replacement no one will argue is a bad thing). Ripping out the speedway then leads them to (hopefully) replacing/reimagining Tomorrowland by working on MiLF, Stitch, Speedway and giving Buzz a much needed facelift.

All long term plans that will probably change and get cancelled over and over, but I believe there is some kind of vision here and some pieces need to fall in to place first. Let's see who the new CEO will be in a year or two.

"They have to nail this..."
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