News Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom

[TrainsOfDisney]

They put attractions and expanded the walkable areas in parts that was formerly non accessible to guests. Backlot was all facades with nothing but a few shops and playground. BLT was a waste of space

Backlot was under used outside of the Holidays - which is another issue. I loved the tram tour back in the day - catastrophe canyon was the best version of that concept (like earthquake, twister, etc.) that I ever experienced. What’s one sequence in all of galaxies edge as impressive as catastrophe canyon?

I don't know what's worse, having MK run on fumes and inertia because Phil Holmes and Jay Rasulo don't want to spend a cent on it, or having a Disney willing to spend billions on new additions, only to throw out the whole park in the process.

I’d take Phil & Jay for sure - this is painful.

 

[Centauri Space Station]

What’s one sequence in all of galaxies edge as impressive as catastrophe canyon?

Let’s see the alien AA at the store, Hondo preshow AA, the transport AA, the reveal of the base after leaving the transport and all the storm troopers, the AT ATs, all kylo AAs, the falcon out front.

 

[October82]

Except DHS got a net gain of 3 new rides on the former area of just 1.

They put attractions and expanded the walkable areas in parts that was formerly non accessible to guests. Backlot was all facades with nothing but a few shops and playground. BLT was a waste of space

There are IMO two things going on here:

1. SWL and TSL were expansions of DHS in terms of themed area and quality (regardless of problematic uses of their IP) compared to the park as it existed in the 2010s.
2. They didn’t deliver the capacity they should given the cost. Both in terms of attractions and “on-stage” area.

I don’t think it’s anywhere close to true that DHS didn’t see a change in its attraction value, but it is weirdly emblematic of the missed opportunities that the attraction count remained basically fixed.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Let’s see the alien AA at the store, Hondo preshow AA, the transport AA, the reveal of the base after leaving the transport and all the storm troopers, the AT ATs, all kylo AAs, the falcon out front.

An AA is more impressive than a ton of pyro, water cannons, and flames?

 

[aladdin2007]

An AA is more impressive than a ton of pyro, water cannons, and flames?

to modern day imagineers glued to their phones it is . There was nothing like those physical effects of CC, I was mesmerized as a kid...today? everything is over geeked.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I don't know what's worse, having MK run on fumes and inertia because Phil Holmes and Jay Rasulo don't want to spend a cent on it, or having a Disney willing to spend billions on new additions, only to throw out the whole park in the process.

It’s why I’m so glad that Disneyland Paris has gone so long without major new attractions. So much of that amazing park is intact (although they still figured out a way to muck up the “timeless” Tomorrowland).

 

[Centauri Space Station]

An AA is more impressive than a ton of pyro, water cannons, and flames?

the big reveal is absolutely better than a 2 min sequence that took 10 mins of riding past sad concrete and props

 

[aladdin2007]

the big reveal is absolutely better than a 2 min sequence that took 10 mins of riding past sad concrete and props

they weren't sad, it was fun and well done and served a story purpose.

 

[Centauri Space Station]

they weren't sad, it was fun and well done and served a story purpose.

when it was a working studio they did… after that it was a farce to keep up the charade that obviously was no longer true

 

[CoasterCowboy67]

I’d recommend you go back through this conversation. I acknowledged where there are parallels, and afaik, explicitly responded to your points as you made them. I’m happy to discuss more - if there’s a substantive new point - but nowhere did I ignore a point you made or “move the goalposts”. Disagreement doesn’t mean someone is ignoring you or not able to respond to your points.

I feel that I’ve been clear from the beginning but in case not, my point is that DCA is getting three new attractions on previously undeveloped expansion pads. It’s weird that Disney doesn’t seem to be doing the same in Florida - especially when you’ve given recent examples where they (arguably) have done so. There’s seemingly little reason for Cars, Monsters, and Encanto to not be expansions rather than replacements. That’s it.

I’d ask you do the same, and reflect on your definitions of expansion pad and replacement. Let me be clear with mine:

1. Avengers (DLR) is a replacement and expansion pad use. A Bugs Land was there before it with 5 attractions. We can’t forget it was replaced with Avengers Campus and it’s 1 attraction to start (Spiderman) + the promise of more. And yes, the new rides are using additional space
2. Guardians (WDW) is a replacement and expansion pad use. It replaced Ellen and also expanded the footprint of the park with a massive show building
3. Avatar (DLR) will be both a replacement and an expansion pad use. It will require the elimination of Monsters (likely) and use additional space
4. Encantó (WDW) is both a replacement and expansion pad use. It will replace the footprint of Primeval Whirl with the queue and house, and the model clearly shows a massive show building built beyond the former boundary of Dinorama
5. Cars (WDW) is only a replacement
6. Villains (WDW) is only expansion pad use. Cars is replacing ROA and Villains is using the additional space beyond ROA and Haunted Mansion. Either way, we can’t count ROA getting replaced twice — there’s only ROA
7. Coco (DLR) I will be generous and say is only expansion pad use. We don’t know for sure and it’s a long time away, but it’s conceivable it only needs to replace some shops and use backstage space
8. Monsters (WDW) will be both a replacement and expansion pad use. If we assume it replaces Muppets, it will require additional space outside the boundary of the park to create the massive show building
9. Remy (WDW), MMRR (DLR) and Tron (WDW) are only expansion pad uses that did not significantly affect anything at the park

Of these recent additions and announced projects I count:

• DLR with 2 replacements and 4 expansion pads used
• WDW with 4 replacements and 6 expansion pads used

Very similar, which is why I disagreed with the original statement that DLR “keeps expanding” when it’s clear it’s not doing that any more or less than WDW

 

[CoasterCowboy67]

An AA is more impressive than a ton of pyro, water cannons, and flames?

Lights Motor Action must have been a big loss for you if that’s how you define impressiveness

The Stormtrooper reveal is a far more impactful moment than Catastrophe Canyon ever was, with zero pyro water cannons or flames. The elevator lift in ROTR in front of the AT-ATs is another

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Lights Motor Action must have been a big loss for you if that’s how you define impressiveness

I was there for the final performance how’d you know!?

And yes, that was an extremely impressive show, with bad pacing.

 

[October82]

I’d ask you do the same, and reflect on your definitions of expansion pad and replacement. Let me be clear with mine:

1. Avengers (DLR) is a replacement and expansion pad use. A Bugs Land was there before it with 5 attractions. We can’t forget it was replaced with Avengers Campus and it’s 1 attraction to start (Spiderman) + the promise of more. And yes, the new rides are using additional space

The Avengers attractions that Disney is planning are on new space not occupied by a previous attraction or guest accessible area. Yes, Spider-man and associated lightly themed structures replaced some off the shelf flat rides several years ago.

1. Guardians (WDW) is a replacement and expansion pad use. It replaced Ellen and also expanded the footprint of the park with a massive show building

Yes - which I acknowledged was an interesting interpretation that has some merit. As has been acknowledged, this is an example of a past time when Disney used an expansion pad to replace an attraction at WDW. This is not an example from the current round of expansion, which is what I (and others have) been pointing out has a different aspect to it at DLR than WDW.

1. Avatar (DLR) will be both a replacement and an expansion pad use. It will require the elimination of Monsters (likely) and use additional space
2. Encantó (WDW) is both a replacement and expansion pad use. It will replace the footprint of Primeval Whirl with the queue and house, and the model clearly shows a massive show building built beyond the former boundary of Dinorama

Yes, Avatarland's entrance and transition area from Hollywoodland will likely be located on the land occupied by the Monster's building. The Avatar attraction - and the land itself - will be built on areas that are currently inaccessible from the theme park. The Tropical America's area is replacing Dinoland USA. No one has said that replacements don't mean significant investment.

If Disney were replacing Hollywoodland with Avatar land, there would be a more clear parallel but clearly there is some overlap in how Disney thinks about its expansion pads. Dinoland/Dinorama and Monster's are clearly expendable. That's interesting - especially given the investment in the Monster's IP elsewhere - even if these are still very different kinds of expansions.

1. Cars (WDW) is only a replacement

Yes.

1. Villains (WDW) is only expansion pad use. Cars is replacing ROA and Villains is using the additional space beyond ROA and Haunted Mansion. Either way, we can’t count ROA getting replaced twice — there’s only ROA

Yes, which was acknowledged before. Villains is the only new attraction at WDW that will be a 'true expansion' in the way the investment coming to DCA is.

1. Coco (DLR) I will be generous and say is only expansion pad use. We don’t know for sure and it’s a long time away, but it’s conceivable it only needs to replace some shops and use backstage space

Yes, Coco is an expansion pad only case. Just like the Avatar E-ticket and the Avengers attractions.

1. Monsters (WDW) will be both a replacement and expansion pad use. If we assume it replaces Muppets, it will require additional space outside the boundary of the park to create the massive show building

Monsters seems to be replacing one or more attractions.

1. Remy (WDW), MMRR (DLR) and Tron (WDW) are only expansion pad uses that did not significantly affect anything at the park

These are all past attractions - which of course both resorts have done both replacements and expansions at various points. What is relevant to people in this thread is the mix of these things now.

Of these recent additions and announced projects I count:

• DLR with 2 replacements and 4 expansion pads used
• WDW with 4 replacements and 6 expansion pads used

Very similar, which is why I disagreed with the original statement that DLR “keeps expanding” when it’s clear it’s not doing that any more or less than WDW

You're clearly more invested in this than I am - so this will be my last post and feel free to have the last word if you should want it - but if you can't see how there's a difference between 3-4 E/D tickets on expansion pads in California as opposed to removal of a land at DAK, a core part of the MK, and probably another iconic attraction at DHS (although I hold out hopes for Muppets) I don't know what can be said to convince you there's a substantive difference in the plans for each resort.

Every change to a park will involve some changes to on-stage areas but that doesn't mean these things are equivalent - and frankly, you're really reaching to make your point by going back to Bug's land, Remy, MMRR, and Tron.

None of this touches upon the "third gate" level investment that DisneylandForward will bring. The 3-4 attractions announced for California are 1/3 of the total amount that Disney has committed to spend on attractions there. So yes, people are right to think Disney should do more to expand the WDW parks given the investments they are making elsewhere, and it's probably a bad sign for WDW's growth outlook that they're replacing areas of the parks with IP rather than substantive new additions.

 

[Starship824]

I’d ask you do the same, and reflect on your definitions of expansion pad and replacement. Let me be clear with mine:

1. Avengers (DLR) is a replacement and expansion pad use. A Bugs Land was there before it with 5 attractions. We can’t forget it was replaced with Avengers Campus and it’s 1 attraction to start (Spiderman) + the promise of more. And yes, the new rides are using additional space
2. Guardians (WDW) is a replacement and expansion pad use. It replaced Ellen and also expanded the footprint of the park with a massive show building
3. Avatar (DLR) will be both a replacement and an expansion pad use. It will require the elimination of Monsters (likely) and use additional space
4. Encantó (WDW) is both a replacement and expansion pad use. It will replace the footprint of Primeval Whirl with the queue and house, and the model clearly shows a massive show building built beyond the former boundary of Dinorama
5. Cars (WDW) is only a replacement
6. Villains (WDW) is only expansion pad use. Cars is replacing ROA and Villains is using the additional space beyond ROA and Haunted Mansion. Either way, we can’t count ROA getting replaced twice — there’s only ROA
7. Coco (DLR) I will be generous and say is only expansion pad use. We don’t know for sure and it’s a long time away, but it’s conceivable it only needs to replace some shops and use backstage space
8. Monsters (WDW) will be both a replacement and expansion pad use. If we assume it replaces Muppets, it will require additional space outside the boundary of the park to create the massive show building
9. Remy (WDW), MMRR (DLR) and Tron (WDW) are only expansion pad uses that did not significantly affect anything at the park

Of these recent additions and announced projects I count:

• DLR with 2 replacements and 4 expansion pads used
• WDW with 4 replacements and 6 expansion pads used

Very similar, which is why I disagreed with the original statement that DLR “keeps expanding” when it’s clear it’s not doing that any more or less than WDW

I want add some details here.

1. I think most of the flat rides from Bugs Land were moved over to Pixar Pier and only true loss was Heimlich's chew chew train and ITTBAB

4. It's important to note IMO that Encanto will undoubtedly be more popular than what it replaced and won't close for weather, a frequent occurrence in Florida .

5. Cars, again while I don't agree with the decision to replace the rivers of America with cars, it will be more popular and have a higher capacity then what's there now. It will also give people the chance to explore areas that were previously unreachable.

6. Villains is still technically replacing the rivers of America. The top half of it. The bottom half towards what most people see in frontierland is what cars is replacing. So yes, villains is replacing the rivers of America even if it is adding more rides and shopping and dining. It is replacing the space that once occupied the rivers of America at least partly. I'm sure some of it will go beyond the rivers of America, but I think the majority of it will replace what is the rivers of America now.

8. If monsters replaces Muppets, that's a huge loss for the park, especially for a long time because of construction. If it replaces the animation Courtyard then it's basically a net gain at that point. Let's all hope and pray it's replacing the animation Courtyard.

 

[CoasterCowboy67]

The Avengers attractions that Disney is planning are on new space not occupied by a previous attraction or guest accessible area. Yes, Spider-man and associated lightly themed structures replaced some off the shelf flat rides several years ago.


Yes - which I acknowledged was an interesting interpretation that has some merit. As has been acknowledged, this is an example of a past time when Disney used an expansion pad to replace an attraction at WDW. This is not an example from the current round of expansion, which is what I (and others have) been pointing out has a different aspect to it at DLR than WDW.



Yes, Avatarland's entrance and transition area from Hollywoodland will likely be located on the land occupied by the Monster's building. The Avatar attraction - and the land itself - will be built on areas that are currently inaccessible from the theme park. The Tropical America's area is replacing Dinoland USA. No one has said that replacements don't mean significant investment.

If Disney were replacing Hollywoodland with Avatar land, there would be a more clear parallel but clearly there is some overlap in how Disney thinks about its expansion pads. Dinoland/Dinorama and Monster's are clearly expendable. That's interesting - especially given the investment in the Monster's IP elsewhere - even if these are still very different kinds of expansions.


Yes.


Yes, which was acknowledged before. Villains is the only new attraction at WDW that will be a 'true expansion' in the way the investment coming to DCA is.


Yes, Coco is an expansion pad only case. Just like the Avatar E-ticket and the Avengers attractions.


Monsters seems to be replacing one or more attractions.


These are all past attractions - which of course both resorts have done both replacements and expansions at various points. What is relevant to people in this thread is the mix of these things now.


You're clearly more invested in this than I am - so this will be my last post and feel free to have the last word if you should want it - but if you can't see how there's a difference between 3-4 E/D tickets on expansion pads in California as opposed to removal of a land at DAK, a core part of the MK, and probably another iconic attraction at DHS (although I hold out hopes for Muppets) I don't know what can be said to convince you there's a substantive difference in the plans for each resort.

Every change to a park will involve some changes to on-stage areas but that doesn't mean these things are equivalent - and frankly, you're really reaching to make your point by going back to Bug's land, Remy, MMRR, and Tron.

None of this touches upon the "third gate" level investment that DisneylandForward will bring. The 3-4 attractions announced for California are 1/3 of the total amount that Disney has committed to spend on attractions there. So yes, people are right to think Disney should do more to expand the WDW parks given the investments they are making elsewhere, and it's probably a bad sign for WDW's growth outlook that they're replacing areas of the parks with IP rather than substantive new additions.

Yeah I’m good to agree to disagree and move on. If you can’t agree that Avengers Campus is a replacement of A Bugs Land that had a 3D show, 3 flat rides, a kids train ride and a playground, then agree we won’t get anywhere

Hope DLR isn’t a far drive or flight for you!

 

[October82]

Yeah I’m good to agree to disagree and move on. If you can’t agree that Avengers Campus is a replacement of A Bugs Land that had a 3D show, 3 flat rides, a kids train ride and a playground, then agree we won’t get anywhere

Hope DLR isn’t a far drive or flight for you!

I mostly go to the international parks now.

 

[Quietmouse]

The way I see it:

Dino land. - it was a skip, but I understand the appeal of the dinosaur dark ride. Dinorama was easily the worst themed area of the park, and I know it was intentional, but people go to Disney world to experience what they can’t experience else where. You can experience a road side carnival in any Midwest town during the summer.

I call it a net gain.

Monsters inc replacing muppets would suck, but I’m not oblivious to the fact that muppets as a whole is losing relevancy rapidly.

Cars land - Tom Sawyer island and the boat isn’t what I would necessarily call an attraction. It was more of something to do to kill time. But let’s call it a wash.

Villains land is clearly a net gain.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

1. I think most of the flat rides from Bugs Land were moved over to Pixar Pier and only true loss was Heimlich's chew chew train and ITTBAB

Only 1 did. Also I regret never riding the chew chew train haha

 

[CoasterCowboy67]

1. I think most of the flat rides from Bugs Land were moved over to Pixar Pier and only true loss was Heimlich's chew chew train and ITTBAB

The only flat ride that came over is what is now Emotional Whirlwind at Pixar Pier. And even then, Emotional Whirwind replaced Maliboomer. So it wasn’t a net new add to Pixar Pier

Net - DCA gained Spiderman and Emotional Whirlwind but lost Maliboomer, It’s Tough to be a Bug, the 3 flat rides and the kids train and playground

 

[Starship824]

Only 1 did. Also I regret never riding the chew chew train haha

The only flat ride that came over is what is now Emotional Whirlwind at Pixar Pier. And even then, Emotional Whirwind replaced Maliboomer. So it wasn’t a net new add to Pixar Pier

Net - DCA gained Spiderman and Emotional Whirlwind but lost Maliboomer, It’s Tough to be a Bug, the 3 flat rides and the kids train and playground

Thanks for the info on that. Wasn't sure.