Captain America 4

[Phroobar]

So you're saying that unless Cap 4 does at least as well as the two previous movies (CA:TWS and CA:CW) it will be a failure?

Both were helped immensely by what was happening with the rest of the MCU (CW was basically an Avengers movie), with momentum the franchise doesn't seem to have now at the tail end of phase 4.

Yes. The movie must have been at least 200 million to make. That means they need 600 to turn a profit. It will be seen by Disney as the worst money maker of the Cap movies if it doesn't hit certain returns. They are starting from scratch with the character. We don't know how it will turn out. I really hope it is good but looking at Black Widow and the Falcon and the Winter Soldier, I'm worried.

 

[Mr Ferret 75]

By world wide grosses:

Captain America: The first Avenger made $370,569,744
Captain America: The Winter Solider made $714,421,503
Captain America: Civil War made $1,153,337,496

Success to Hollywood means Captain America: New World Order needs to make somewhere in these numbers and three times it budget to break even. Hopefully it can do as well as Winter Solider considering it's budget.

A direct comparison is grossly unfair considering these numbers are for pre pandemic films. I think it is difficult to put a measure of success on a modern day film considering how much streaming has changed the landscape in the last few years.

 

[Prince-1]

Yes, I actually said I heard it somewhere. I didn't present it as a fact like you did in your very brief post.

Sorry, but I just don’t post nonsense I heard online and if I did I would post the link. I mean it makes absolutely no sense that Evans would be back in the first Captain America movie since Mackie took over. It would overshadow his MCU debut.

 

[Phroobar]

A direct comparison is grossly unfair considering these numbers are for pre pandemic films. I think it is difficult to put a measure of success on a modern day film considering how much streaming has changed the landscape in the last few years.

That is a mute point considering that Top Gun Maverick did $1,482,805,552 post pandemic and Spiderman No Way Home did $1,920,544,470.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Sorry, but I just don’t post nonsense I heard online and if I did I would post the link. I mean it makes absolutely no sense that Evans would be back in the first Captain America movie since Mackie took over. It would overshadow his MCU debut.

The whole thing is just a giant marketing failure. They assume way too many people have kept up with the Disney+ shows religiously. The normal casual moviegoer has no clue that Captain America is anyone other than Chris Evans as Steve Rogers.

They should have called this movie "The Falcon."

 

[GimpYancIent]

The whole thing is just a giant marketing failure. They assume way too many people have kept up with the Disney+ shows religiously. The normal casual moviegoer has no clue that Captain America is anyone other than Chris Evans as Steve Rogers.

They should have called this movie "The Falcon."

Absolutely correct Cap!

 

[Mr Ferret 75]

The whole thing is just a giant marketing failure. They assume way too many people have kept up with the Disney+ shows religiously. The normal casual moviegoer has no clue that Captain America is anyone other than Chris Evans as Steve Rogers.

They should have called this movie "The Falcon."

They retired Cap at the end of the last film . Don't need to keep up with D + to know that.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

They retired Cap at the end of the last film . Don't need to keep up with D + to know that.

Again, put your "casual moviegoer" hat on. They "retired Cap" but they're making Captain America 4. A casual moviegoer is confused by this.

And I have zero problem with Mackie being the new Cap. I would have been fine with them retiring the name entirely, I would have been fine with Bucky, and I'm fine with Sam. I just think it was a mistake to give it to Sam on Disney+.

 

[Mr Ferret 75]

Again, put your "casual moviegoer" hat on. They "retired Cap" but they're making Captain America 4. A casual moviegoer is confused by this.

And I have zero problem with Mackie being the new Cap. I would have been fine with them retiring the name entirely, I would have been fine with Bucky, and I'm fine with Sam. I just think it was a mistake to give it to Sam on Disney+.

To your "casual moviegoer" Steve handed over the shield to The Falcon at the end of Endgame. It doesn't require a Harvard degree to figure out that Steve is gone and Cap is someone else.

 

[Phicinfan]

Educated guess based on the fact that Evans was done with the role which was then given to Mackie. He will not wanted to cone right back to the same movie franchise and possibly upstage Mackie in his first movie as Cap. Ain't never going to happen.

I assume you have some proof for saying that he is going to be in the movie??

I will add per reports it won't be until the next Avengers movie that he is expected back. But those are all suppositions as well

 

[Phroobar]

To your "casual moviegoer" Steve handed over the shield to The Falcon at the end of Endgame. It doesn't require a Harvard degree to figure out that Steve is gone and Cap is someone else.

He could have come back considering all the multiverse crap they are pulling. It could have been a movie happening in the middle of the Infinity Stones storyline like they did with Black Widow. It could be anything to the casual moviegoer.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

It may be worth pointing out that if you put any stock in what WDW Pro says, it sounds like the toy companies have been taking it in the shorts with a lot of these character changes as well. Steve-as-Cap sells better than Sam-as-Cap, which isn't entirely surprising, but what I found interesting is that Sam-as-Falcon also apparently outsells Sam-as-Cap.

 

[Phicinfan]

It may be worth pointing out that if you put any stock in what WDW Pro says, it sounds like the toy companies have been taking it in the shorts with a lot of these character changes as well. Steve-as-Cap sells better than Sam-as-Cap, which isn't entirely surprising, but what I found interesting is that Sam-as-Falcon also apparently outsells Sam-as-Cap.

I bet that changes post Capt. America 4. To you previous point, if you are not tied into Disney +, then you don't know why Captain America suddenly is black, and not Steve Rogers.

 

[Mr Ferret 75]

I bet that changes post Capt. America 4. To you previous point, if you are not tied into Disney +, then you don't know why Captain America suddenly is black, and not Steve Rogers.

Other than anyone who saw old man Steve hand Sam the the shield at the end of the infinity saga. Seem to remember that was quite a lot of people

 

[GimpYancIent]

Other than anyone who saw old man Steve hand Sam the the shield at the end of the infinity saga. Seem to remember that was quite a lot of people

Yes, the shield was passed over to "The Falcon" With that Captain America retired / went into hiatus leaving "The Falcon" in possession of the shield. The way I see it, "The Falcon" is now in possession of Captain Americas shield but it does not make him Captain America, The Falcon is still "The Falcon" (just in possession of the Captain America shield).

 

[MisterPenguin]

Yes, the shield was passed over to "The Falcon" With that Captain America retired / went into hiatus leaving "The falcon" in possession of the shield. The way I see it, "The Falcon" is now in possession of Captain Americas shield but it does not make him Captain America, The Falcon is still "The Falcon" (just in possession of the Captain America shield).

The people who saw the 2 Billion dollar Box Office movie should at least know that Old Steve won't be Captain America.

And if they didn't hear anything about FatWS on D+, they will certainly see the teasers, previews, and posters with Sam as Captain America.

And just perhaps, if they go to CA4 thinking that somehow 'young' Chris Evans is still C.A. because they somehow missed the previews and posters and buzz... just maybe they won't storm out of the theater demanding a refund when the beginning of the movie recaps through exposition that Sam is now C.A.

 

[Prince-1]

I will add per reports it won't be until the next Avengers movie that he is expected back. But those are all suppositions as well

If you are talking about Evans coming back as Cap then yes I can totally see that. It gives time for Mackie to be Cap in his own film and probably some cameos elsewhere and then have some multiverse variant of Evans back as Cap. But I don't think for a second he will be back in Cap 4.

 

[Prince-1]

It may be worth pointing out that if you put any stock in what WDW Pro says, it sounds like the toy companies have been taking it in the shorts with a lot of these character changes as well. Steve-as-Cap sells better than Sam-as-Cap, which isn't entirely surprising, but what I found interesting is that Sam-as-Falcon also apparently outsells Sam-as-Cap.

Zero stock in him.

 

[Prince-1]

I bet that changes post Capt. America 4. To you previous point, if you are not tied into Disney +, then you don't know why Captain America suddenly is black, and not Steve Rogers.

Just like you didn't know that Wanda went from hero to trying to kill a teenager in D. Strange 2. Still a stupid plotline.

 

[Prince-1]

The whole thing is just a giant marketing failure. They assume way too many people have kept up with the Disney+ shows religiously. The normal casual moviegoer has no clue that Captain America is anyone other than Chris Evans as Steve Rogers.

They should have called this movie "The Falcon."

I am fine with it as he is no longer The Falcon and is now Captain America. But yes, they are relying on people watching everything Marvel on D+ and not everyone is.