Calls to Retheme Pinnochio's Daring Journey

waltography

Well-Known Member
How do you know that?
The only news source picking it up is ITM, and the article itself is using an unrelated Twitter thread and a handful of reader comments from a previous article covering the SM retheme. Hardly an impassioned effort/campaign to change the ride.

It'd be like me calling for Disney to get rid of Autopia on this forum and then someone picking it up saying "Some Calls for the Demolishing of Autopia."
 

Brer Panther

Well-Known Member
Again, Disney is cowardly. Even if this is just some schmucks on a blog complaining about the ride for now, Disney showed that it's perfectly willing to bow to pressure from the woke mob or whatever it's called. I think it's reasonable to think we could get another Splash Mountain situation out of this.
 

smooch

Well-Known Member
Although I know this is a 1 person complaint picked up by a small "news" site I can't help but feel we'll be seeing this over and over again. We already have, I've seen complaints about Jungle Cruise, Hall of Presidents in WDW, heck even IASW (a ride about the unity of all cultures around the world) as being racist / cultural appropriating / etc. It's ridiculous. People nowadays find an issue with literally everything, not to get off topic but I was on Twitter earlier today and there were multiple threads of people quoting other tweets / videos and complaining they're offensive either for race or gender or something and when I went to the comments it was split half and half of people of the race / gender / whatever being "offended" saying it was offensive or that Twitter is overly sensitive and that they are inserting these issues into places they aren't even an issue and just creating problems about nothing. This is what it feels like is happening with everything nowadays and after the Splash retheme announcement it has been happening more and more because now people have the idea that if they complain enough they can accomplish change. This is the can of worms I've talked about since the day of the retheme announcement, people feel like their petitions and angry tweets hold power to Disney and now there are people / groups of people (no matter how small, the vocal minority is a thing) looking at everything in Disney Parks with some sort of critical, over-analytical lens and making problems that don't exist. Yes there are things in the parks that I believe should have been changed that have been, but the idea that there's a group of people who believe IASW is offensive because it is a company "appropriating cultures of the world" when the ride was created to create a sense of unity across the world is truly baffling to me. I know this holds no weight at all, but I felt that way when I heard about the ToT retheme and I felt that way about the Splash Mountain retheme and those have both become reality (unless Splash is somehow cancelled due to funding, but if anything it would be delayed but not cancelled in my opinion) so that's my problem now, no matter how ridiculous some idea sounds I can't discredit it because I had those exact feelings before which came to fruition.
 

Brer Panther

Well-Known Member
Again, Disney is not cowardly.
I'm just going to post this again...

Disney won't even build attractions not based on IPs anymore because they think people don't like IP-less rides. They don't make hand-drawn movies anymore because the most recent hand-drawn movies (including the very movie that they suddenly did a 180 on because it fits their agenda) flopped, conveniently ignoring that maybe the reason they flopped is because they put them up against big blockbuster films like Harry Potter sequels and Avatar. If they weren't cowardly, they would've told the people complaining about Splash Mountain to pound sand or simply ignored them. It's their cowardice that caused Song of the South to become such a despised movie in the first place - if they'd simply released it on DVD sometime before the 2010s (or even the 2000s, I don't know) it likely wouldn't be the big crazy "it's so racist that it's been banned!" enigma to all. I'm not saying that the film isn't racist, but the Indians from Peter Pan are pretty racist too, yet that film wasn't banned so people focus on the NON-RACIST elements of the film. This is what pre-Iger Disney was trying to do with Splash Mountain, focus on the stuff from the film that WASN'T racist (the animated characters and songs) to make a great ride out of it.

Today's Disney is one of the most cowardly companies in existence. It doesn't care about being progressive. All they care about are their image and making money. Tell me one brave (at least from a money-making perspective) thing that they've done since Frozen was released.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
I'm just going to post this again...

Disney won't even build attractions not based on IPs anymore because they think people don't like IP-less rides. They don't make hand-drawn movies anymore because the most recent hand-drawn movies (including the very movie that they suddenly did a 180 on because it fits their agenda) flopped, conveniently ignoring that maybe the reason they flopped is because they put them up against big blockbuster films like Harry Potter sequels and Avatar. If they weren't cowardly, they would've told the people complaining about Splash Mountain to pound sand or simply ignored them. It's their cowardice that caused Song of the South to become such a despised movie in the first place - if they'd simply released it on DVD sometime before the 2010s (or even the 2000s, I don't know) it likely wouldn't be the big crazy "it's so racist that it's been banned!" enigma to all. I'm not saying that the film isn't racist, but the Indians from Peter Pan are pretty racist too, yet that film wasn't banned so people focus on the NON-RACIST elements of the film. This is what pre-Iger Disney was trying to do with Splash Mountain, focus on the stuff from the film that WASN'T racist (the animated characters and songs) to make a great ride out of it.

Today's Disney is one of the most cowardly companies in existence. It doesn't care about being progressive. All they care about are their image and making money. Tell me one brave (at least from a money-making perspective) thing that they've done since Frozen was released.

Heard you the first time. Saying the same thing over and over again doesn't make it right or true. So, I'll post my response again...

Disney regularly comes under pressure from all sorts of special interest groups all the time and doesn't cave in.

Calling Disney "cowardly" because they acquiesced on one thing, which had already been an acknowledged embarrassment for them, isn't fair to Disney at all.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Care to give some examples?

Also, I love how you didn't acknowledge any of my other arguments at all.

I didn't acknowledge your other arguments because I wasn't going to follow you down your rabbit hole. You say Disney is cowardly and caves in. I pointed out that Disney many times haven't.

Just think about all the flak Disney got through the decades in allowing Gay Days and being progressive in employment rights for gay and cohabitating couples. Disney was subjected to boycotts about such progressive stances from the Right and didn't cave.

Proof that Disney isn't cowardly.

The point that started this is about Splash Mountain. And I pointed out another reason for changing it rather than craven fear: Disney itself is embarrassed about the existence of SotS. It was just a year or two ago that Iger characterized SotS as offensive and will never be released. You don't need to call Disney cowardly to see why they'd distance themselves even further from SotS by changing up Splash Mountain.

This whole thread is a farce. The people who are upset about the SM change are creating Straw Men and Slippery Slopes and Whataboutisms with regard to other attractions which are... problematic. Certainly not to the extent of a neuralgic topic as slavery (or more accurately, whitewashing the situation of recently freed slaves). And so, people are going on, some sincerely, some trollishly, about all the other possible changes which are very very very unlikely to change.

But, sure, pretend all those changes have already happened and call Disney cowardly for something that hasn't happened. Enjoy that bubble.
 

Brer Panther

Well-Known Member
I didn't acknowledge your other arguments because I wasn't going to follow you down your rabbit hole. You say Disney is cowardly and caves in. I pointed out that Disney many times haven't.

Just think about all the flak Disney got through the decades in allowing Gay Days and being progressive in employment rights for gay and cohabitating couples. Disney was subjected to boycotts about such progressive stances from the Right and didn't cave.

Proof that Disney isn't cowardly.

The point that started this is about Splash Mountain. And I pointed out another reason for changing it rather than craven fear: Disney itself is embarrassed about the existence of SotS. It was just a year or two ago that Iger characterized SotS as offensive and will never be released. You don't need to call Disney cowardly to see why they'd distance themselves even further from SotS by changing up Splash Mountain.

This whole thread is a farce. The people who are upset about the SM change are creating Straw Men and Slippery Slopes and Whataboutisms with regard to other attractions which are... problematic. Certainly not to the extent of a neuralgic topic as slavery (or more accurately, whitewashing the situation of recently freed slaves). And so, people are going on, some sincerely, some trollishly, about all the other possible changes which are very very very unlikely to change.

But, sure, pretend all those changes have already happened and call Disney cowardly for something that hasn't happened. Enjoy that bubble.
I provided examples of Disney being cowardly outside of the Splash Mountain thing (being afraid to make hand-drawn movies simply because The Princess and the Frog and Winnie the Pooh flopped, despite their flopping being for reasons other than because they were hand-drawn - specifically, their being put up against films like AVATAR and a Harry Potter sequel and being poorly-advertised; being afraid to make attractions not based on IPs despite how beloved rides like Big Thunder Mountain Railroad and Test Track still are). You're just NOW giving examples of Disney actually showing that they have a spine.

You can go on and on about how racist Splash Mountain is, but Disney dug their own hole with Song of the South. Eisner could've just released it ONCE so everyone could see it and see why it's considered offensive, but instead they banned it, and as a result it's considered some sort of horrible incredibly racist film that should never even be acknowledged. I'm not arguing that the film isn't offensive, but the Indians in Peter Pan are pretty offensive too, yet I don't see anybody demanding Peter Pan be banned. Has Iger even SEEN Song of the South? I'm genuinely curious.

On top of that, NOTHING THAT'S CONSIDERED RACIST ABOUT SONG OF THE SOUTH IS INCLUDED IN SPLASH MOUNTAIN. I never saw a single person call Splash Mountain racist for being based on an offensive film until Frederick Chambers posted his idea for a retheme of the ride on Twitter (every so often I'd hear somebody say, "Hey, isn't it kind of funny that Disney built a ride based on a movie they won't release?", but that's not the same thing). If Splash Mountain being based on Song of the South was such a huge problem, why didn't they retheme it years ago?

And even if they retheme Splash Mountain, that ain't gonna help them distance themselves from Song of the South. The internet exists. People are going to find proof of the film's existence online. Years from now, people will likely make articles about how Disney had to retheme a ride for being based on a horribly racist film. Brer Bear and the Tar Baby make cameos in Who Framed Roger Rabbit - unless they plan on banning THAT film too, there's a film on Disney+ with proof that Song of the South exists. Brer Bear also makes a cameo at the end of The Lion King 1 1/2, guess THAT'S gotta be banned too. Where does it end?

There's a reason that people are starting to worry about other attractions being changed - by giving in to the woke mob's demands to see Splash Mountain rethemed (to a movie that, as previously mentioned, they initially brushed off as proof that hand-drawn films are dangerous), that just gives them more power and they could start demanding that Disney replace other "problematic" rides as well.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
I provided examples of Disney being cowardly outside of the Splash Mountain thing (being afraid to make hand-drawn movies simply because The Princess and the Frog and Winnie the Pooh flopped, despite their flopping being for reasons other than because they were hand-drawn - specifically, their being put up against films like AVATAR and a Harry Potter sequel and being poorly-advertised; being afraid to make attractions not based on IPs despite how beloved rides like Big Thunder Mountain Railroad and Test Track still are). You're just NOW giving examples of Disney actually showing that they have a spine.

You can go on and on about how racist Splash Mountain is, but Disney dug their own hole with Song of the South. Eisner could've just released it ONCE so everyone could see it and see why it's considered offensive, but instead they banned it, and as a result it's considered some sort of horrible incredibly racist film that should never even be acknowledged. I'm not arguing that the film isn't offensive, but the Indians in Peter Pan are pretty offensive too, yet I don't see anybody demanding Peter Pan be banned. Has Iger even SEEN Song of the South? I'm genuinely curious.

On top of that, NOTHING THAT'S CONSIDERED RACIST ABOUT SONG OF THE SOUTH IS INCLUDED IN SPLASH MOUNTAIN. I never saw a single person call Splash Mountain racist for being based on an offensive film until Frederick Chambers posted his idea for a retheme of the ride on Twitter (every so often I'd hear somebody say, "Hey, isn't it kind of funny that Disney built a ride based on a movie they won't release?", but that's not the same thing). If Splash Mountain being based on Song of the South was such a huge problem, why didn't they retheme it years ago?

And even if they retheme Splash Mountain, that ain't gonna help them distance themselves from Song of the South. The internet exists. People are going to find proof of the film's existence online. Years from now, people will likely make articles about how Disney had to retheme a ride for being based on a horribly racist film. Brer Bear and the Tar Baby make cameos in Who Framed Roger Rabbit - unless they plan on banning THAT film too, there's a film on Disney+ with proof that Song of the South exists. Brer Bear also makes a cameo at the end of The Lion King 1 1/2, guess THAT'S gotta be banned too. Where does it end?

There's a reason that people are starting to worry about other attractions being changed - by giving in to the woke mob's demands to see Splash Mountain rethemed (to a movie that, as previously mentioned, they initially brushed off as proof that hand-drawn films are dangerous), that just gives them more power and they could start demanding that Disney replace other "problematic" rides as well.

In two years from now, I hope you can still enjoy WDW even though most of the rides will have had new rethemes.
 

SplashGhost

Well-Known Member
If Disney wasn't cowardly, they would have released Song of the South on home video in the US. Trying to hide a movie your studio made in the past because you are worried it will ruin your corporate image is cowardly.

Disney is in the position to make actual change, and hiding a movie made in 1946 doesn't do that. All it does is make it harder to have actual discussions about the movie and its place in history. To move forward as a culture, we have to acknowledge the good and bad things in the past and learn from them. Censorship is never the answer.
 

PB Watermelon

Well-Known Member
I'm just going to post this again...

Disney won't even build attractions not based on IPs anymore because they think people don't like IP-less rides. They don't make hand-drawn movies anymore because the most recent hand-drawn movies (including the very movie that they suddenly did a 180 on because it fits their agenda) flopped, conveniently ignoring that maybe the reason they flopped is because they put them up against big blockbuster films like Harry Potter sequels and Avatar. If they weren't cowardly, they would've told the people complaining about Splash Mountain to pound sand or simply ignored them. It's their cowardice that caused Song of the South to become such a despised movie in the first place - if they'd simply released it on DVD sometime before the 2010s (or even the 2000s, I don't know) it likely wouldn't be the big crazy "it's so racist that it's been banned!" enigma to all. I'm not saying that the film isn't racist, but the Indians from Peter Pan are pretty racist too, yet that film wasn't banned so people focus on the NON-RACIST elements of the film. This is what pre-Iger Disney was trying to do with Splash Mountain, focus on the stuff from the film that WASN'T racist (the animated characters and songs) to make a great ride out of it.

Today's Disney is one of the most cowardly companies in existence. It doesn't care about being progressive. All they care about are their image and making money. Tell me one brave (at least from a money-making perspective) thing that they've done since Frozen was released.

I can't even write the opening lyrics for "Alexander Hamilton" on this forum without risking getting banned, and that's on Disney+.
 

PB Watermelon

Well-Known Member
If Disney wasn't cowardly, they would have released Song of the South on home video in the US. Trying to hide a movie your studio made in the past because you are worried it will ruin your corporate image is cowardly.

Disney is in the position to make actual change, and hiding a movie made in 1946 doesn't do that. All it does is make it harder to have actual discussions about the movie and its place in history. To move forward as a culture, we have to acknowledge the good and bad things in the past and learn from them. Censorship is never the answer.

Song of the South is a crushing bore, aside from the animated sequences. I do not understand the obsession Disney fans have with it.
 

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