BREAKING: Disney, Largest Union Reach Agreement

[raven]

Sorry for the bump but I couldn't let this slide.

What I have a problem with when it comes to these union folks who whine about us (the evil CP's taking 'their jobs' away) and decide to take out all their anger on us is the fact that I have a college degree and have invested thousands of dollars into my flight training and if I were to walk out and get a job in the airline I'd be making 20K a year, maybe even as low as 17K. So I really don't want to hear this crap about how you think you should be making any more than that considering the skills involved are basically something the average 'normal' person could do. I'm not being a snob or part of the entitlement class. I'm not entitled to anything, but as long as I see these dumb kids go out and get a job flying regionals from $17-23K I am not going to complain at all about Disney's pay.
If anything, maybe the union should be compensating me for the 'hostile' environment some of their members seem to enjoy creating for us CP's... in my first week here I've already had 3 run ins.

First off, the role that I am in has a starting rate at $7.30/hr at WDW. But the same job in most other areas around the U.S. starts at $12/hr yet I'm doing more work at WDW. The company simply refuses to pay what everyone else pays for the same jobs. Result? The quality of work goes down, the quality and care of the CMs go down, guests start to notice these changes and it begins to impact their trips and plans to return. The "magic" is 3rd rate compared to what it was 5, 10, 15 years ago yet your vacation prices continue to go up.

Secondly, do you really know what skills are involved in each one of those jobs that these unions cover? If it were something that an average "normal" person could do, why do some of the roles have extensive training? Ongoing training? Premiums for selected skills/qualifications within those roles?

On the other hand I see where that hostility comes from. A lot of these idiot kids don't take this job seriously and think it's all fun and games. They really don't care about Disney and some have never even been here and just think it'll be a fun job away from the parents for a little bit.

More often than not. Example: Last weekend at the Princess Marathon there was a group of about 6 custodial CP's all bunched up and hanging out behind a tent while all of the other custodial workers cleaned and emtied trash. They sat there for a good hour or more and dodged management several times by d__________g into the tent when they came around.

This is one isolated incident but you can see where they would get a bad reputation. But when CM's and management from a department that doesn't have CP's in it you can see how this would stick out.

 

[jt04]

First off, the role that I am in has a starting rate at $7.30/hr at WDW. But the same job in most other areas around the U.S. starts at $12/hr yet I'm doing more work at WDW. The company simply refuses to pay what everyone else pays for the same jobs. Result? The quality of work goes down, the quality and care of the CMs go down, guests start to notice these changes and it begins to impact their trips and plans to return. The "magic" is 3rd rate compared to what it was 5, 10, 15 years ago yet your vacation prices continue to go up.

Secondly, do you really know what skills are involved in each one of those jobs that these unions cover? If it were something that an average "normal" person could do, why do some of the roles have extensive training? Ongoing training? Premiums for selected skills/qualifications within those roles?



More often than not. Example: Last weekend at the Princess Marathon there was a group of about 6 custodial CP's all bunched up and hanging out behind a tent while all of the other custodial workers cleaned and emtied trash. They sat there for a good hour or more and dodged management several times by d__________g into the tent when they came around.

This is one isolated incident but you can see where they would get a bad reputation. But when CM's and management from a department that doesn't have CP's in it you can see how this would stick out.

Comparing wages in Florida to most of the rest of the nation is futile. Especially entry level positions and non-skilled jobs. Florida has no income tax and generally a less total tax burden than most states. Also, the cost of living is less. A house in the northeast for example will cost two or three times what an equal property would cost in most areas around Orlando. Apartment rents are equally skewed. So $8 an hour in Florida is more in real spending power than $12 an hour in many other areas.

Of course employees claiming they are 'victims' of the system often leads to episodes as you describe. Such thinking is contagious. But it is the managers who are failing when someone is not dismissed for not doing their jobs. I would feel guilty if I agreed to a wage and then failed my responsibilities. Especially to families who may be traveling to WDW on a once in a lifetime vacation. Because of the golden rule and conscience and such.

 

[juniorthomas]

Comparing wages in Florida to most of the rest of the nation is futile. Especially entry level positions and non-skilled jobs. Florida has no income tax and generally a less total tax burden than most states. Also, the cost of living is less. A house in the northeast for example will cost two or three times what an equal property would cost in most areas around Orlando. Apartment rents are equally skewed. So $8 an hour in Florida is more in real spending power than $12 an hour in many other areas.

Of course employees claiming they are 'victims' of the system often leads to episodes as you describe. Such thinking is contagious. But it is the managers who are failing when someone is not dismissed for not doing their jobs. I would feel guilty if I agreed to a wage and then failed my responsibilities. Especially to families who may be traveling to WDW on a once in a lifetime vacation. Because of the golden rule and conscience and such.

Agreed. You cant relate your job to another for the exact reason that each job does different things. Furthermore, you work there. You dont have those other jobs. You agree to work at a company with a specific pay rate - that does not mean you are entitled to match pay with a different job, in a different state, for a different company.

If that was the case, I'd take the league minimum for Major League Baseball. That'll do me just fine.

 

[aeroforce101]

More often than not. Example: Last weekend at the Princess Marathon there was a group of about 6 custodial CP's all bunched up and hanging out behind a tent while all of the other custodial workers cleaned and emtied trash. They sat there for a good hour or more and dodged management several times by d__________g into the tent when they came around.

This is one isolated incident but you can see where they would get a bad reputation. But when CM's and management from a department that doesn't have CP's in it you can see how this would stick out. [/QUOTE]




but thats what you get with a union too... people who take adavantage of honest workers and laze around all day collecting the same money as you.

 

[raven]

Comparing wages in Florida to most of the rest of the nation is futile. Especially entry level positions and non-skilled jobs. Florida has no income tax and generally a less total tax burden than most states. Also, the cost of living is less. A house in the northeast for example will cost two or three times what an equal property would cost in most areas around Orlando. Apartment rents are equally skewed. So $8 an hour in Florida is more in real spending power than $12 an hour in many other areas.

I live in the exact same size apartment as I did in the north. But here it costs $400 more than what I paid up there.

Just looked at my original post about this and had to laugh at the auto-sensor on this sight blocked me from saying "d__________g!" How could a word meaning to "dodge" something or "go under" be blocked? :lol:

 

[juniorthomas]

More often than not. Example: Last weekend at the Princess Marathon there was a group of about 6 custodial CP's all bunched up and hanging out behind a tent while all of the other custodial workers cleaned and emtied trash. They sat there for a good hour or more and dodged management several times by d__________g into the tent when they came around.

This is one isolated incident but you can see where they would get a bad reputation. But when CM's and management from a department that doesn't have CP's in it you can see how this would stick out.

but thats what you get with a union too... people who take adavantage of honest workers and laze around all day collecting the same money as you.[/QUOTE]

Good call. Unions were necessary in the early 1900s. Now, not so much.

 

[juniorthomas]

I live in the exact same size apartment as I did in the north. But here it costs $400 more than what I paid up there.

Just looked at my original post about this and had to laugh at the auto-sensor on this sight blocked me from saying "d__________g!" How could a word meaning to "dodge" something or "go under" be blocked? :lol:

I was trying to figure out what that word was supposed to be...Haha

 

[Wilt Dasney]

Just looked at my original post about this and had to laugh at the auto-sensor on this sight blocked me from saying "d__________g!" How could a word meaning to "dodge" something or "go under" be blocked? :lol:

It's like those "Unnecessary Censorship" videos on Jimmy Kimmel's show. The bleeps make you think of far dirtier things than the original word would have. :lol:

 

[wm49rs]

I live in the exact same size apartment as I did in the north. But here it costs $400 more than what I paid up there.

Just looked at my original post about this and had to laugh at the auto-sensor on this sight blocked me from saying "d__________g!" How could a word meaning to "dodge" something or "go under" be blocked? :lol:

Yes, but how much would that apartment go for in New Mexico?

Wait, you mean you DIDN'T write something else?

 

[juniorthomas]

It's like those "Unnecessary Censorship" videos on Jimmy Kimmel's show. The bleeps make you think of far dirtier things than the original word would have. :lol:

I certainly think what I came up with was worse than what was intended...

 

[googilycub]

More often than not. Example: Last weekend at the Princess Marathon there was a group of about 6 custodial CP's all bunched up and hanging out behind a tent while all of the other custodial workers cleaned and emtied trash. They sat there for a good hour or more and dodged management several times by d__________g into the tent when they came around.

This is one isolated incident but you can see where they would get a bad reputation. But when CM's and management from a department that doesn't have CP's in it you can see how this would stick out.

but thats what you get with a union too... people who take adavantage of honest workers and laze around all day collecting the same money as you.[/QUOTE]

Wow, not even close to being true, but why let the facts get in the way of some good union bashing?:brick:

 

[juniorthomas]

but thats what you get with a union too... people who take adavantage of honest workers and laze around all day collecting the same money as you.

Wow, not even close to being true, but why let the facts get in the way of some good union bashing?:brick:

While it was relatively dramatic, you can't help but recognize the fact that there are people at the top of the union chain who are indeed making money off of hard working union members, likely at their expense...

 

[Tom Morrow]

Oh its absolutely true. The union means that people can do the absolute bare minimum or less because they can't be fired or "let go" unless they break the rules according to the contract.

There are many CMs that have this down to an absolute science.

 

[IlikeDW]

nevermind

 

[AEfx]

Comparing wages in Florida to most of the rest of the nation is futile. Especially entry level positions and non-skilled jobs. Florida has no income tax and generally a less total tax burden than most states. Also, the cost of living is less. A house in the northeast for example will cost two or three times what an equal property would cost in most areas around Orlando. Apartment rents are equally skewed. So $8 an hour in Florida is more in real spending power than $12 an hour in many other areas.

That doesn't change the fact that, compared to similar jobs, in the area, Disney still pays less.

You can make more at an Orlando McDonalds than you can working at Pecos Bills, and not have to drive into work early just to catch a bus from the parking lot, then trek all the way across a theme park to work, and the additional standards Disney requires of it's employees.

So, the answer for many is, "Well, go work at McDonalds then!" You know what? As I said earlier in this thread - that's exactly what has happened.

Unions are like bacteria. Some bacteria is good, some of it downright necessary for survival, and some is bad. To say all unions are either good or bad is being overly simplistic.

Union or not, Disney pays for crap, and yet so many people have such a hard time understanding why the quality of the average CM (that people talk about endlessly, right up there with complaining about the Dining Plan) has gone down so in the past 5, 10, 15 years, and the reason is blatantly obvious. People need a decent wage, so they go elsewhere - and that's why we are left with the few CM's that stay because they love working there, the rest who are just there until something better comes along, and then the rest are the CP'ers, who know their time is finite and many (though not all) overall don't have the investment of caring about the quality of work.

Not rocket science here.

 

[Alektronic]

That doesn't change the fact that, compared to similar jobs, in the area, Disney still pays less.

You can make more at an Orlando McDonalds than you can working at Pecos Bills, and not have to drive into work early just to catch a bus from the parking lot, then trek all the way across a theme park to work, and the additional standards Disney requires of it's employees.

So, the answer for many is, "Well, go work at McDonalds then!" You know what? As I said earlier in this thread - that's exactly what has happened.

Unions are like bacteria. Some bacteria is good, some of it downright necessary for survival, and some is bad. To say all unions are either good or bad is being overly simplistic.

Union or not, Disney pays for crap, and yet so many people have such a hard time understanding why the quality of the average CM (that people talk about endlessly, right up there with complaining about the Dining Plan) has gone down so in the past 5, 10, 15 years, and the reason is blatantly obvious. People need a decent wage, so they go elsewhere - and that's why we are left with the few CM's that stay because they love working there, the rest who are just there until something better comes along, and then the rest are the CP'ers, who know their time is finite and many (though not all) overall don't have the investment of caring about the quality of work.

Not rocket science here.

That is only for non-skilled jobs that are entry level. Skilled jobs or people that have an actual trade are paid very well compared to others in the Orlando area.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

That is only for non-skilled jobs that are entry level. Skilled jobs or people that have an actual trade are paid very well compared to others in the Orlando area.

Unskilled entry level jobs are the largest category of workers at WDW, and the ones with the most guest interaction. If the topic is guest concerns about the level of service, then these are the jobs they're talking about. It doesn't matter how "magical" a ride maintenance technician acts.

 

[raven]

Unskilled entry level jobs are the largest category of workers at WDW, and the ones with the most guest interaction. If the topic is guest concerns about the level of service, then these are the jobs they're talking about. It doesn't matter how "magical" a ride maintenance technician acts.

Most Ride Technicians (or Maintenence) start at $29.75/hr. They have no guest interaction and I've only met a few that actually stay awake and "work" their entire shift. Most snooze in their lairs without lifting so much as an eyelid the entire time.

Sad but true if you knew them like I do. Look at all of the special effects and animatroics, lights and other elements of a ride that are down for long periods of time, if not working anymore at all. If you ask me, that's way too much to be paid for this kind of stuff.

 

[AEfx]

Unskilled entry level jobs are the largest category of workers at WDW, and the ones with the most guest interaction. If the topic is guest concerns about the level of service, then these are the jobs they're talking about. It doesn't matter how "magical" a ride maintenance technician acts.

Yeah, that's the connection that I feel is missing when people jump in and say "get a job elsewhere then!" when, in fact, they have.

The FOTL cast members are the ones we all complain about. Sure, a lot of it is rose colored glasses on the past, but it truly does feel like there are less and less FOTL CM's who go that extra mile anymore. They certainly do still exist, which is why I am always careful to mention them, but they are certainly fewer than before and the experience of many other fans/posters seems to reflect this.

Disney requires a TREMENDOUS amount from their FOTL employees. As long as the guy taking your order at McDonalds doesn't say, "F-U!" they aren't going to be reprimanded for not being "magical" enough. When the kid who works at Subway goes to work, he parks 100 feet away, whereas the guy working at Pecos Bills has to drive to a parking lot, take a bus in to work, and then walk across a theme park just to get to work. While many places of business have uniforms, they certainly don't have the standards that Disney requires.

Yet, they can make more working at places where it's easier to work, a whole lot less hassle.

Disney has made this a science, which is why, what, something like 43% of FOTL are now CP's? I'm sure someone has hard data on that, that's the last figure I remember hearing. And while there are some CP's who have a love of the parks and Disney and are absolutely wonderful, quite a few were duped into thinking "hey going to spend the semester at Disney World!" and didn't realize they'd be picking up trash or slinging fries for less than minimum wage (once all the deductions are made).

Disney can well afford to pay more, but they don't, so we have the situation we have now. Disney, like any corporation, has too many VPs of VPs who probably couldn't explain to you what their own jobs are if they tried. If they made middle management a little lighter, they could afford to pay and retain more quality FOTL employees. Of course, this is an overall issue with corporate America and not Disney in particular, but we feel it's effect uniquely every time we enter a park.

 

[COProgressFan]

Most Ride Technicians (or Maintenence) start at $29.75/hr. They have no guest interaction and I've only met a few that actually stay awake and "work" their entire shift. Most snooze in their lairs without lifting so much as an eyelid the entire time.

Sad but true if you knew them like I do. Look at all of the special effects and animatroics, lights and other elements of a ride that are down for long periods of time, if not working anymore at all. If you ask me, that's way too much to be paid for this kind of stuff.

Its unfortunate to be in that position, where you can see highly paid employees doing nothing, doing a half-baked job, or just being lazy. Its extremely frustrating to those who do show up, do their job and do it well. This happens in a lot of organizations.

But letting this go on is completely a case of poor management. Someone needs to take charge and make sure the work is getting done, but lower management doesn't seem to care, and it goes up the line to the top. Unless Staggs comes in and shakes things up, it seems no one is taking responsibility for the shortcomings. Certainly top WDW management doesn't seem to care.