Tha Realest
Well-Known Member
to Sir’s point,
1) it’s already bad, and already occurring before the economic headwinds hit
2) it’s going to get much, much worse
3) this is somewhat uncharted territory
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Bounceback Offers Return to Walt Disney World
- Thread starter Rteetz
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1) it’s already bad, and already occurring before the economic headwinds hit
2) it’s going to get much, much worse
3) this is somewhat uncharted territory
I'm just referring to the student loan mess in particular.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Oh I’m right there with you…
Price gouging…literally extortion…and they went on tv for years and claimed it was a delay in a Shipping container and paying a kid at Target $2 more an hour…while CEOs were caught on hot mics admitting to be robber barons
It’s where the company is and among the reasons why they’re failing. They aren’t able to cater to the mass market anymore because the apparent priority is that everything has to be targeted to specific demographics.
Bob was right that the TWDC is a company of storytellers. They are telling you a story that they aren’t failing in everything they’re doing.
How much did Secret Invasion cost? It’s ratings are worse that She Hulk and slightly better than Ms Marvel. No one cares anymore because they’re not creating shows for mass market.
Vegas Disney Fan
Well-Known Member
This seems to be the primary problem, rather than making movies, shows, and parks that people like they’re making movies, shows, and parks they want us to like… and it’s not working.
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Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Len,
Do you guys get advance booking data from TAs when you factor the long term forecasts?
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
You’re way overestimating how much politics actually matters…and how “even” the world is.
It’s not “wokeness”…it’s “brokenness”
It’s brutally evident when you go to a grocery, pet store, etc?
People went along with the “Covid” strategy and there’s no exit strategy.
This slow down in travel at Disney parks isn’t because their movies suck and that clown Desantis - who already lost - is raising hell…
It’s that it’s the most overpriced vacation option domestically in the US. People are still traveling…just not there.
Orlando may have jumped it’s own shark during Covid.
TheMaxRebo
Well-Known Member
I do think they need to learn how to make movies and shows that don't cost a fortune. It's ok to make stuff that maybe caters more to some people than others but you can't spend on them as if they are going to be pulling tons of subscribers, etc
I mean, I loved She-Hulk and Ms Marvel but also recognize they aren't going to draw in End Game numbers.
Even like Elemental (which I loved) and Indy 5, you can't spend $250-300m+ on everything
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Re-centering seems to be a part of it…for sure.
They have to respond and will catch all kinds of hell. They’re wrecked their content trying to force it for 8-10 years…
Wow…look at Indy.
I thought it would rally and sniff the floor it needed too?
Nope…major flop. Those 5 angry Lucas fans (4 + me…what I like to call “the boys”) sunk this one worse than Rise of a Joke and Solo combined.
There should be another scapegoat announcement (retirement) this week.
The sweater weasel is also running out of hostages…
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Marvels gonna flop too…and the same raging debate That’s been going for months is gonna kick back up
Mental soup for morons
WDW has under Iger never been the working family middle class theme park. For all the talk of inclusion they’ve done more to exclude the low spenders. They want the six figure families that live in the wealthy suburbs. These demographics aren’t subject to economic constraints.
So it’s either one of two things. The cater to the people who have excess disposable income strategy was a failure, or the people with disposable income don’t want to vacation with Mickey anymore.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
But it started out at that point…
Not “cheap”…but possible
He had nibbled away at the pilings under the damn…eventually it floods.
I’m not talking about you and me and our point banks…I’m talking about where they’re pushing pork.
They’ve managed to drastically shrink their client pool AND p!ss off a lot of the backbone customers.
But there were never enough upper middles to fill the place to make the profit engine churn. Are they buying Mickey Ts??
It takes skill…
“Whales” was never a strategy. It’s just what fools on forums and social media wanted to believe…cause then they really feel like they’ve accomplished something.
they didn’t. They’re nothing. Just made dvc sales like fishing with dynamite
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JD80
Well-Known Member
Has nothing to do with COVID. It has everything to do with the price tag. There is no looming recession or whatever else people are doom casting here. All economical signs are mostly positive.
Generally speaking, the only value prop for WDW offers is for first time guests. WDW still hold the allure of the one time big family vacation everyone has to do. Everything at WDW is new and fresh for first goers. Most people will ignore the price tag because it's deemed "once in a lifetime" and you can get away with a lot of overpriced stuff for something perceive as "once in a lifetime" experiences.
The value prop is very diminished for repeat guests and long term fans. The product is less that it used to be, cost more and also nickel and dimes you along the way and the more you go the more you start evaluating it more closely. WDW is getting very close (or maybe has) to a tipping point where it's just not worth it, even to the more avid fans.
5 years ago people were having this discussion, but the majority of people still thought the value was still there, now that group of people is a lot bigger. We've been talking about this tipping point for a decade. I think we're here.
Someone here said the $150 day ticket still hold value compared to other entertainment products. I agree with that. But my park ticket is $750 because I have a family of 5. I don't think the park holds that value for me per day at all.
TheIceBaron
Well-Known Member
I’m definitely eager to listen in on the next TWDC earnings call in a month. Likely bad news across the board, but maybe some welcome announcements.
Hopefully we hear more about how they will invest that 10 billion in WDW. They need to boost attendance somehow and I’m sure the data shows new projects increase guest attendance. However, they might be waiting for a more favorable and cheaper labor and materials market before they commit to specific projects.
In the mean time, I anticipate more deep cuts across the studios divisions and hopefully leadership changes at Lucasfilm. They have to be growing tired of the growing list of, at best, lukewarm box office performances.
Hopefully we hear more about how they will invest that 10 billion in WDW. They need to boost attendance somehow and I’m sure the data shows new projects increase guest attendance. However, they might be waiting for a more favorable and cheaper labor and materials market before they commit to specific projects.
In the mean time, I anticipate more deep cuts across the studios divisions and hopefully leadership changes at Lucasfilm. They have to be growing tired of the growing list of, at best, lukewarm box office performances.
Tha Realest
Well-Known Member
I suspect they will say they’re curtailing their plans due to the climate there
bcoachable
Well-Known Member
So if you (anyone who wants to chime in) were in charge, and could go back in 15 years in time, what would you have done different?
My quick take (without really knowing anything, of course):
Keep prices affordable to grow visitors, and open up a third us gate to capitalize and accommodate more middle class spending growth….
My quick take (without really knowing anything, of course):
Keep prices affordable to grow visitors, and open up a third us gate to capitalize and accommodate more middle class spending growth….
For the love of all things holy please tell me Kennedy is getting the axe, and please let George Lucas be the one that gets to do it.
JD80
Well-Known Member
2008 one day park ticket was $75 ($104 adjusted for inflation). Current ticket prices are roughly $140-$150.
2008 Port Orleans Riverside rack rate for summer~$179.00 ($248 adjusted for inflation). Current rack rate $302.00
Family of four, going to WDW for a week and going to the parks for 4 days, adjusted for inflation:
2008: $3,152.00
2023: $4,212.00
I don't feel like doing food costs, merch, magic bands, G+ or ILLs or transportation from the airport or parking fees. The ultimate question is, is there $1,000 more value to your WDW trip in today's dollars than in 2008 before you even calculate the other things I don't feel like calculating.
So that's what I would consider RIGHT NOW if I'm in Parks. Do I have a perception problem with the cost of the experience overall (the answer is yes).
Brian
Well-Known Member
They've already done some fairly substantial labor hour reductions. There's been worse, but it's already happening.
TheMaxRebo
Well-Known Member
They did do that though, the prices and growing crowds - and had record crowds in 2018/19 where the biggest complain was the crowd levels
So isn't really a 15 year ago issu more what they did then which was to raise prices and try to distribute the crowd which worked (for them) for a while but now that demand has slacked a bit, isn't working
Really probably needed to have a bigger plan for expanding the other existing parks, probably thinking of a 5th gate and expanding value accomodations - but they got so focused on quarterly earnings that they wants to maximize spend per guest not total spend.
Then Vivid happened and D+ was propping up the stock price until analysts/investors realized streaming isn't all it is cracked up to be and now they are not positioned well in a couple of areas moving forward
They need to make trips easier and make guests happy and get them talking to their friends about how amazing the trip was. If you do that no on minds spending a little more than expected - they do mind spending more for a lesser product that takes more work to, well, work