I hope for a big budget but not only for the renamed park but a new resort also. With hotel occupancy at 90% a new resort is needed. It will take some time to build and they need more hotel rooms for the 50th. A Deluxe resort for the Studios and a Moderate somewhere else on property would be perfect.
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Bob Iger at WDW now ... BoD to Follow?
- Thread starter WDW1974
- Start date
mahnamahna101
Well-Known Member
In their defense, New Fantasyland really did just restore lost capacity from 20K/SWSA. Only the B&TB area and the new Dumbo added new capacity. And Princess Fairytale Hall actually decreased capacity from what used to be there. Maybe Mermaid/SDMT combined add a little more than 20K/SWSA, especially since Mermaid is an Omnimover. But it's nothing blatantly significant.
New Fantasyland needed an E-ticket to back up SDMT's D and Mermaid's C. B&TB should have gotten an actual ride instead of some eateries and a M&G.
Expand Peter Pan's capacity and give it some ride upgrades, fix up IASW's facade/dolls, keep all of the cut SDMT show scenes, a dark ride to replace SWSA instead of a M&G, and a B&TB E... I don't think anyone would truly complain about New Fantasyland except those who truly loathe TDO/WDW.
Whether I like it or not, Bald Mountain and a Wonderland mini-land probably aren't going to happen anytime soon. Same goes for a Neverland mini-land or a Pinocchio ride where the tents are.
As long as the attraction count is 2-4 above DHS' highest attraction count at any point from 1989-present, I'd be satisfied. Especially if everything added except TSPL is a D/E. But if it's equal to or less than what was there before, unless the entire lineup is Ds/Es, I could understand their complaints.
mahnamahna101
Well-Known Member
Very true... so long as what they add is better than what was there before (not hard with Backlot, LMA, Voyage of the Little Mermaid, Sound Studio, American Idol, etc).
So only expect Star Wars Land, TSPL, some placemaking, and possibly something Cars/Monsters?
I doubt either of those are included in the budget. If Iger and the BoD are getting together to approve a budget now, neither of these would be included.
Similar to how many say TSMM wasn't included in the DCA redo budget.
Pixar doesn't really need new infrastructure. They just have to level Backlot Tour, LMA and all non-Muppets parts of the Streets of America. Maybe a soundstage?
Star Wars does, though... I think that's why there's going to be 2 new parking garages and a redone entrance.
CaptainAmerica
Premium Member
20K closed TWENTY years ago. It was gone regardless of whether New Fantasyland was built or not. The "starting point" for FLE was not a Magic Kingdom the included 20K, but a Magic Kingdom that didn't. Anything built on that space was incremental as it relates to the project.
I disagree vehemently. An E-ticket (as we think of them today) would have been a disaster in New Fantasyland. The footpaths in that area are completely overwhelmed as it is. When you're talking about Fantasyland, you want "sponge" attractions to suck up guests, not "magnet" attractions to draw people in.
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
MK needs less people in the park. Seriously.
DHS/DAK/Epcot need more people. Easiest way to do that is to start drawing people away.
Because if you expand capacity at MK now, that capacity will be filled instantly. Think of it like when you widen a lane on an interstate around a major city; you're just treading water. You need people to go elsewhere for awhile, and that will hopefully be Rivers of Color at DAK and Extreme Makeover (DHS edition) and ... well put Epcot on the list, gonna need to do something with future world.... Really need to do all that BEFORE anything else goes in at MK.
Ive always thought that you have a five year plan, each year one of the parks opens something new and on the fifth year, an E-Ticket goes in somewhere on property.
mahnamahna101
Well-Known Member
A high-capacity B&TB trackless dark ride, a dark ride replacement for SWSA (doubling Fairytale Hall's current capacity) and expanded capacity on Peter Pan (doubling or tripling its current capacity), not to mention upgrades for IASW (classic sponge attraction) wouldn't soak up guests?
I know you think any sort of expansion to MK will simply clog the guest paths, but SDMT could have used a people-eating E-ticket to ease wait-times. It wouldn't have 90-120 minute waits if there was a true headliner for NFL, and if Peter Pan/IASW were upgraded. Plus, they could have also moved Phliharmagic to Main Street - allowing another people-eating show for MK.
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
I'd tailor your expectations more to whatever @WDW1974 is suggesting is on the agenda. Plus recent 10 year history at Disney always leaves me going "Thats It?!?!"
CaptainAmerica
Premium Member
@PhotoDave219 and I (and others) have discussed this in Frozen threads, but there is virtually nothing that functions as a sponge in Magic Kingdom and Fantasyland specifically. Any capacity added and guests absorbed by new attractions is more than offset by incremental guests coming to experience them. If you add 5,000 in capacity but 6,000 extra people show up to experience what you built, things are going to get more crowded, not less. The only solution is to draw people out of Fantasyland all together and/or build things that suck on purpose.
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
I can't jump on that optimistic viewpoint. While I HATE to say this, Star Wars is a property that attracts people regardless of the effort involved. And unless they are extremely out of touch with reality, pretty much everyone in the Disney company, including the board, should realize how popular the IP is and how rabid the fanbase is for anything thrown at them. They've got themselves a cash cow to milk dry here...
Going big with Star Wars will obviously attract far MORE people (people who aren't even big fans of the franchise will appreciate a well-made theme park experience), but the board has shown itself to be reluctant to make initial heavy investments in improving the guest experience. And given the fact that Iger is the one pitching the ideas and budget to them, i'm somewhat more worried given that he's not interested in the creative or guest experience side of things, he's into Wall Street and the bottom line. He and the board may be satisfied with attracting simply "enough" people by doing things on the cheap, rather than giving it their all to gain the maximum amount of people. We'll see, but they've definitely created a track record of severe disappointment for quite some time regarding WDW.
Cars Land had a creative (Lasseter) with a lot of political power to threaten executives into doing it properly (he likely had a lot of dirt to use against higher ups). James Cameron is working with Avatar Land, he's infamously picky and a pain to work with when things don't meet his expectations (he could probably cause at least some PR trouble if he doesn't like what he sees). Though there have even been cuts with Avatar, notable the original third ride initially reported (some sort of coaster apparently) and later cut from the original budget. But I haven't seen anything to indicate powerful creative people are in charge of Star Wars to ensure it's done properly without value engineering. That's a problem if left to the bean counters to slash and cut to pieces.
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CaptainAmerica
Premium Member
@WDW1974 seems to be indicating that this is "the big one," using phrases like "the spending faucets have been opened."
mahnamahna101
Well-Known Member
I agree - but if they're going to expand Fantasyland, you might as well do it right. And moving Philharmagic to Main Street, putting a new people-eater in the old Philharmagic theater, expanding Peter Pan's capacity and replacing SWSA with something of equal capacity is just common sense. Not to mention giving NFL a proper E.
Either go all the way or use that money to fix Epcot/DHS lol.
I think AK will be relatively set by 2018. The only things it'll need are a Dinoland revamp/Dinorama replacement and maybe a couple family dark rides for Africa/Asia.
Epcot needs overhauls for Energy/Imagination, along with a WoL replacement. Plus SSE and Innoventions could use some enhancements. A new pavillion between Land and Nemo would help Soarin' out.
DHS needs everything.
- DHS (fixing the whole park)
- Epcot (making Future World more appealing)
- MK (expanding current capacity without adding new attractions)
- AK (fixing Dinoland and fleshing out the rest of the park)
SYRIK2000
Well-Known Member
I never understood the mass-appeal of the Peter Pan ride to begin with.
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
You realize its going to cost probably 250M+ to move one attraction to another venue, right?
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
I don't know about tripling it (they could probably only expand it if Philharmagic wasn't there), but they could at least substantially up the capacity of the existing ride by altering the vehicles. Disneyland Paris' version of the ride has two rows of seats for the ship vehicles in comparison to WDW's single row. I'm not sure the full extent of HOW much that would increase capacity, but i'm sure it would definitely be a substantial amount.
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
I've been passed a few notes by some other people that suggest that is the case.
im thinking its just terrible capacity but I could be wrong
man do I hope you re right.... im curious if DHS is in as bad a place as DCA was before there redo? or is DHS picked up because of park hopping?
CaptainAmerica
Premium Member
Just now? You went from skeptical to "true believer" in a matter of an hour?
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
I'm still skeptical. I believe that all the information being put out is true and accurate though.
I've just been told that this is a big parks and resorts capital expenditure meeting. Apparently this is about the studios big makeover, among other things. Now what exactly that is going to entail? Probably nowhere near as much as we all want…
Plus I got a note overnight…
Edit: I mostly skeptical about an announcement actually occurring at D 23. I'm confident that Star Wars for Disney's Hollywood Studios is being proposed to the Board of Directors at this meeting. Whether they say yes? That's a different story…
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