Bob Chapek's response to Florida's 'Don't Say Gay' bill

Status
Not open for further replies.

Andrew C

You know what's funny?
Interesting responses.
Without commenting on this particular piece of legislation directly....What I find interesting is many putting so much faith in the public education system all of a sudden it seems, when the public education system continuously fails students across the entire country. Failing in math. Failing in sciences. Failing in reading. Getting beaten pretty badly by most other developed nations. Failing schools all over. Failing standardized tests...it is all a cesspool of failure across the board really. Yet some want to leave it to the professionals with things such as sex ed? Well, the professionals have been failing for years now...
 

ImperfectPixie

Well-Known Member
I’m literally using quotes from your comment. I’m not reading anything into it. I’m reading exactly what is there.

That’s great that you support homeschool, but your previous comment simply makes it sound like you don’t support more parental control of education at all because it may lead to some bad apples also gaining more control. That’s the concern I have with it.

(And I’m getting really tired of your “nice try, though”s)
I did not say homeschoolers.

I said people who believe conspiracy theories and other falsehoods.

You ASSUMED that I included homeschoolers in that group - because, as sad as it is, there are some people out there who believe they are one and the same. I'm not one of them.
 

BuddyThomas

Well-Known Member
The fact that a practice that makes fun of women goes back centuries is certainly no surprise to me. So do mother-in-law jokes, terrible women drivers jokes, nagging wife jokes, etc. Maybe making fun of women doesn't amount to violence, as you say blackface did, but it certainly helped oppress them.
Your entire premise is incorrect. It is not "making fun of women". If you do not understand drag, perhaps don't hold a lecture about it.
 

BuddyThomas

Well-Known Member
By the way, the "grooming" line that has appeared here a couple times, including on the last page, is bigotry springing from a long, sad history of homophobia. It's not new, and it's absolutely not acceptable. It's hate, and I would hope everyone on here could condemn it.
Funny the innocent things that get deleted on here, and yet this "grooming" nonsense is allowed to stand.
 

MickeyWaffleCo.

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
I did not say homeschoolers.

I said people who believe conspiracy theories and other falsehoods.

You ASSUMED that I included homeschoolers in that group - because, as sad as it is, there are some people out there who believe they are one and the same. I'm not one of them.
You did not say homeschoolers.

You said parents who want more control of their children education.

I ASSUMED that you meant what you said. Go back and read it if you don’t believe me. The wording of it sounds like you don’t want more parental control of education because that will also let the conspiracy theorists in. Like I said, the only thing I’m concerned about now is the misleading wording of the post.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
My comment is not related to this issue, but everyone who pays taxes wants their public schools to do, or not do, teach, or not teach what they want because as a taxpayer, they feel they are paying for it so they want to have a say.
How is the curriculum having to be adopted annually at an open meeting and instructional materials posted online not allowing people to have a say? How does this legislation fix those shortcomings?
 
Last edited:

willf

Member
I have no idea how much it's worth: I have a (dutch) bachelor of education, as a primary school teacher. Maybe education in the States is very different, but for me one of the key elements as a teacher, is the social function a school has.

Any school is a (partial) reflection of society itself and social themes, as they are in big part of life but therefore also impossible to ignore. A school is possible the most important place where (young) kids get to meet and interact with other peers, learning social structure, morals and social skills. That includes sex.

Because for as long as sex and reproduction are a part of our everyday life, it will finds it's way into the schools.
Life happens, society happens and kids will notice that, regardless of age. They are very curious and have tons of questions. Small questions and big questions, even the little ones. They see small brothers and sisters being born. Little animals in the spring. How does that work? Keep in mind that you have a class full and all they do it share experiences and stories with each other.

Apart from that, they will notice that girls and boys have different bathrooms (and they don't always understand why), they will notice their bodies aren't the same (because they will compare). They will also experience their own bodies. There are a lot of different examples of very young kids somehow finding about a way to stimulate themselves, like rubbing their lower bodies over a chair, without any sexual intent because they simply have no idea what they are doing, but their body is having a natural response of pleasure. And at that age, pleasure = good = doing that again. They will learn and understand what is and isn't the standard. Not all of this happens at schools, but school is by far their biggest social network and biggest group of peers.

Sex (in the form of reproduction) will always finds it way into a school, you can't ban that. It doesn't even have to happen in or around the school, because a kid can come to school with the questions or just their stories that triggers questions from others.
But this works both ways: kids, even the youngest ones, will have questions about gender and sexual identify, regardless of what a teacher does and can or cannot do.

Prohibiting a school to be a guide in the views and morals of that topic is very dangerous, because it limits the views kids are exposed to and prevents the kids from forming their own view and it limits their respect for views on this topic other then their own.

There are a ton of very difficult social issues. The daily news, like the war in Ukraine. Covid. Death of a classmate. The classmate with no lunch and smelly clothes. The classmates who's parents are having a terrible break-up so he starts crying in the middle of the class. The list is endless and you cannot ignore them as a teacher. Instead of just teaching facts, you have a different role to deal with this.
I see it as the teachers job to provide neutral answers and be guide in the conversations about social themes. It's not my job to form their opinion, but to create the environment in which they can do so themselves. Educate and help these kids understand society and social themes, yet not enforce my own opinion. I was told, and I fully believe in that, that it is the job of teacher to be a neutral host for that. Not influence them, but to ensure there's an open and transparant environment where each one can choose their own opinion while having respect for the opinion of others. This also happens regularly at a very young age, but in the context and way that's relevant for them. In my own experience, this is even a bigger part of teaching younger kids than the older ones. It happens, a lot. For so many big and small themes. Teachers deal with it all the time.

And that's why I find this bill so extremely hurting. It's not only an direct blow to the LGBT+ rights and community but it also shows an statewide and enormous disrespect to schools and teachers in their social functions, a sudden distrust that the teachers of (small) children aren't capable of handling this particular subject with the care and tact needed for younger kids, while they do it for all the other themes all of the time.

For those giving the argument that parent wanting a say in how their kid it raised: where are the bills to limit education about social themes in general? About death and mourning? About politics? About wealth and poverty? About black lives matter? About sex ? About Santa Claus? (Believe me, this can be a big thing for some parents aswell ... I'm not joking)
Parents seem to be okay that the teachers can talk with their kids about all the social themes expect this subject. How is that not bigotry?

I don't believe that parents raise a kid. It's the combination of parents, family, friends, school, jobs and other people involved, each having their own role and own influence. That should be balanced. Even by limiting the schools at one particular theme, it extremely disturbs that balance because it opens the way for a social-themed censured school system.
Thank you for this. I’m American, but I’ve spent years reading about how these issues are approached in Europe, and especially in the Netherlands, which to me has always seemed to be the gold standard in approaches to education surrounding sexuality.
America is still so puritanical in so many ways, to the extent that people will tell children stories about storks to avoid what should be totally innocuous facts of human biology.
I don’t really have a point, but I suppose I wish my countrymen could see how ridiculous we look to the rest of the world. I know I remember reading about how absurdly bowdlerized The Making of Me seemed to European guests, and that fact alone helped change my perspective.
(Also, this strain of isolationist counter-culturalism in American society that manifests in attempts to place legal gags on teachers and, in extreme cases, ideologically-charged homeschooling, is very concerning to me. But then America’s glorification of individualism has always been a double-edged sword…)
 

CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
By the way, the "grooming" line that has appeared here a couple times, including on the last page, is bigotry springing from a long, sad history of homophobia. It's not new, and it's absolutely not acceptable. It's hate, and I would hope everyone on here could condemn it.
I'm sorry, what? Grooming has nothing to do with homophobia or homosexuality whatsoever. A heterosexual male pedophile grooming a young girl is still grooming.

Linking grooming to homophobia is, itself, homophobia.

That's what makes "don't say gay" such an insidious misnomer. I don't object to gay sexualization of children, I object to all sexualization of children.
 

Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
In a Culture War you need villains, And no villain is more exciting then the huge, family entertainment conglomerate, perhaps the most recognizable brand in the world. The focus on Disney is only going to intensify, especially with the slate of films they are releasing this year.

Nailed it.
 

ImperfectPixie

Well-Known Member
Thank you for this. I’m American, but I’ve spent years reading about how these issues are approached in Europe, and especially in the Netherlands, which to me has always seemed to be the gold standard in approaches to education surrounding sexuality.
America is still so puritanical in so many ways, to the extent that people will tell children stories about storks to avoid what should be totally innocuous facts of human biology.
I don’t really have a point, but I suppose I wish my countrymen could see how ridiculous we look to the rest of the world. I know I remember reading about how absurdly bowdlerized The Making of Me seemed to European guests, and that fact alone helped change my perspective.
(Also, this strain of isolationist counter-culturalism in American society that manifests in attempts to place legal gags on teachers and, in extreme cases, ideologically-charged homeschooling, is very concerning to me. But then America’s glorification of individualism has always been a double-edged sword…)
Thanks for your comment, too. The prudishness is exactly why kids are having sex so young. Their parents are terrified to talk to them, so they don't get all the information they need to make good choices.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom