Tony the Tigger
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Bingo.
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Bob Chapek's response to Florida's 'Don't Say Gay' bill
- Thread starter Disney Analyst
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Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
That is something that I'm not aware of. It's definitely possible that he was getting bombarded with requests to put out a statement. Had he put out a statement where he supported LGBTQ+ employees, the current happenings would cease to exist.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Just to make sure the definition hadn't changed (it hadn't), I looked it up in my Funk & Wagnalls:
Inclusion - noun
1. the action or state of including or of being included within a group or structure.
2. the practice or policy of providing equal access to opportunities and resources for people who might otherwise be excluded or marginalized, such as those who have physical or mental disabilities and members of other minority groups.
That sounds like great stuff to me! And it's exactly what I thought we were talking about here for the past few weeks when we were discussing "Inclusion". Turns out I'm not as dumb as some here think I am!
Although, I still don't know how "Inclusion" differs from the Courtesy Key when it comes to operating Space Mountain or selling a Dole Whip to a customer at the Tiki Room. Which gets to my point that this Inclusion thing seems primarily (and vapidly) aimed at the employees, rather than the paying customers. Which is a huge sea change from the past 60 years of the other Four Keys, which were designed to guide CM's in the expert operation of theme parks.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Welp, the week has come to an end. (And Chapek probably will be making it a double when he gets home tonight, and hoping the worst is over.)
A few hundred stylish cubicle dwellers used a Comp Day on Tuesday. There was also that very brave young man who went out all alone with nothing but a handmade sign and stood out in front of Walt Disney World on Tuesday, which is something I genuinely have far more respect for than a Cubicle Spring Skip Day stunt for the 'Gram from the white collar folks in Burbank.
I couldn't find any evidence of a walk out happening at Disneyland. It seemed to be solely a Burbank-based cubicle stunt.
Disney stock seems to be entirely unaffected by this week's PR. It's bounced along at about 138 bucks all week. It had a low of 137.20 on Monday, actually bounced up higher on Tuesday's Skip Day to a weekly high of 141.80, and is now closing the week out at about $139 as the market closes in New York.
I'm reminded of the Baptist Boycott of Disney a decade or so ago. What was that boycott about again, because I honestly forgot? But I'm sure it was about The Gays, because that's what it's always about. That boycott had no meaningful impact obviously. And I think the Baptists actually formally ended it recently, didn't they?
But now, there's not even calls for a Disney or Florida boycott from either side. Maybe the Baptists ruined that for everyone by being so innefective?
A few hundred stylish cubicle dwellers used a Comp Day on Tuesday. There was also that very brave young man who went out all alone with nothing but a handmade sign and stood out in front of Walt Disney World on Tuesday, which is something I genuinely have far more respect for than a Cubicle Spring Skip Day stunt for the 'Gram from the white collar folks in Burbank.
I couldn't find any evidence of a walk out happening at Disneyland. It seemed to be solely a Burbank-based cubicle stunt.
Disney stock seems to be entirely unaffected by this week's PR. It's bounced along at about 138 bucks all week. It had a low of 137.20 on Monday, actually bounced up higher on Tuesday's Skip Day to a weekly high of 141.80, and is now closing the week out at about $139 as the market closes in New York.
I'm reminded of the Baptist Boycott of Disney a decade or so ago. What was that boycott about again, because I honestly forgot? But I'm sure it was about The Gays, because that's what it's always about. That boycott had no meaningful impact obviously. And I think the Baptists actually formally ended it recently, didn't they?
But now, there's not even calls for a Disney or Florida boycott from either side. Maybe the Baptists ruined that for everyone by being so innefective?
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TP2000
Well-Known Member
Good point. That's probably exactly what's going on. It's also telling that the loudest noises came from the Studios side of the business, in Burbank and Emeryville. Meanwhile, in Anaheim, I couldn't find evidence that any CM did or said anything about this on Tuesday. Not a peep from anyone on Harbor Blvd.
At least out in Orlando there was that brave kid who had to go out there to World Drive all alone. I just wanted to give him a hug for having the conviction and backbone to do that!
In my opinion, he just made a bigger statement than any virtue signaling "We're Using A Comp Day, Gonna Get It On The 'Gram For Likes, And Then All Going To Brunch For Mimosas To Tell Each Other How AMAAAAZING We Are!" stunt in Burbank.
Figgy1
Well-Known Member
The boycott was for giving domestic partners(aka gay) health insurance. I have a friend in tech who made quite a bit of money purging everything Disney from computers. Some people couldn't figure out how to delete things or wanted to make sure it was done by a professional just in case so their computers "wouldn't get infected" Edit it was over 2 decades ago. I remember because we were still in school and planning a trip to Disney. It was nice to be able to eat where we wanted while there
DisneyHead123
Well-Known Member
Maybe. This feels bigger to me - Disney proactively trying to influence laws vs. doing their own thing with their own movies and parks. And involving families, parent rights, and the heated topic of transgenderism in children vs., again, taking a “we’ll do us and you do you” approach. I suspect they are falling into the trap of thinking that Twitter is the real world, and that one way or the other, the consequences here will be bigger for them (maybe good, maybe bad, depending on which way the political winds blow - but bigger.)
But only time will tell. It may be that this is, as you say, more of the same trend that has always been there.
Angel Ariel
Well-Known Member
Just to make sure the definition hadn't changed (it hadn't), I looked it up in my Funk & Wagnalls:
Inclusion - noun
1. the action or state of including or of being included within a group or structure.
2. the practice or policy of providing equal access to opportunities and resources for people who might otherwise be excluded or marginalized, such as those who have physical or mental disabilities and members of other minority groups.
That sounds like great stuff to me! And it's exactly what I thought we were talking about here for the past few weeks when we were discussing "Inclusion". Turns out I'm not as dumb as some here think I am!
Although, I still don't know how "Inclusion" differs from the Courtesy Key when it comes to operating Space Mountain or selling a Dole Whip to a customer at the Tiki Room. Which gets to my point that this Inclusion thing seems primarily (and vapidly) aimed at the employees, rather than the paying customers. Which is a huge sea change from the past 60 years of the other Four Keys, which were designed to guide CM's in the expert operation of theme parks.
Inclusion when operating space mountain is staff being trained to be aware of differences so when a child is taking extra time to load or unload, the cast member has an awareness that the child may have a disability and to be patient. Courtesy alone is having that patience. Inclusiveness means they have an understanding of the potential "why"s behind the need.
Inclusion when selling a dole whip to a customer is again being patient and accepting, for example, of an alternate form of communication. I actually went to Disney World a few years ago after a vocal hemorrhage. I couldn't speak or make any sound at all. Since my child is minimally speaking, I had access to an alternative and augmentative communication device (AAC) to use while I was there. I cannot tell you how many people - including Disney employees - ignored me and went directly to my husband when they realized I couldn't physically speak. Even if I had the AAC device in my hands and was typing quickly to them (it was a text to speech device). Or they talked louder and slower at me, like somehow not being able to speak meant I couldn't hear, despite me already having demonstrated I could hear them. It was very uncomfortable for me to be alone while in the park on that trip because of the lack of awareness of, understanding of, and patience for the use of alternative means of communication. I still distinctly remember being in a store on main street on my own, trying to buy something and needing to ask a question and the cashier being very flustered and borderline rude because I needed extra time to communicate with him. Inclusion training should include training about various disabilities (along with a multitude of other topics), so that cast members aren't so thrown when they meet a guest that maybe challenges their typical experience.
I'm sure you could continue to argue that those are still covered by courtesy - but having experienced what I did, I disagree. Inclusion includes explicit teaching about differences so that there is understanding, not just courtesy.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
That was it, thank you! I'd forgotten what it was all about. I knew it must have been about The Gays though.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Well, that's fascinating! And it makes sense, although as you say a lot of that is also included in just common courtesy. Much less a formal training "key" labeled "Courtesy". I think we can all agree that many CM's now are far less courteous and patient than they were 20 years ago. If they aren't just a silent lump staring at you blankly, that is.
But in this thread at least, the Inclusion Key seemed to be brought up as something the Disney Company owed it's employees. Like it was something that Disney has to change with the times about and get on board to be "Inclusive" of various employee demands regarding dress codes, tatoos, pronouns, allowing animators to put gay characters in cartoons, etc. Almost as though the Inclusion Key is part of a benefits package the employee now deserves, like dental insurance.
Angel Ariel
Well-Known Member
Well, that's fascinating! And it makes sense, although as you say a lot of that is also included in just common courtesy. Much less a formal training "key" labeled "Courtesy". I think we can all agree that many CM's now are far less courteous and patient than they were 20 years ago. If they aren't just a silent lump staring at you blankly, that is.
But in this thread at least, the Inclusion Key seemed to be brought up as something the Disney Company owed it's employees. Like it was something that Disney has to change with the times about and get on board to be "Inclusive" of various employee demands regarding dress codes, tatoos, pronouns, allowing animators to put gay characters in cartoons, etc. Almost as though the Inclusion Key is part of a benefits package the employee now deserves, like dental insurance.
IMO, we all - as individuals, businesses, and society as a whole - owe it to each other to explicitly learn and teach inclusion. It is more than just courtesy.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Sure. But we're talking about operating amusement parks here.
Most CM interactions last less than 10 seconds:
"How many? Row 3, please"
"Stay to your right, folks!"
"That'll be 8 dollars and 20 cents, please. Are you kids having a fun day?"
Even in longer, more involved interactions with like a waitress or front desk clerk, I'm struggling to imagine a scenario where common courtesy and basic professionalism doesn't plaster over any CM's personal opinions. CM opinions/attitudes such as... how ugly the guests hairdo is, or how they hate the sports team the guests t-shirt is advertising, or how offensive the political bumper sticker is on the guests car they are valet parking, or how difficult the guest's accent is to understand, or how they disapprove of two men holding hands at a restaurant table.
I don't need the CM selling me a Dole Whip to approve of who I sleep with or who I voted for or which God I pray to. I just need that CM to look nice, smile at me and say thank you, and process the transaction smoothly and efficiently. It seems we are over thinking this just a tad, and that the Courtesy Key covers almost everything that the Inclusion Key covers for customer interactions.
Which kind of proves my point that this Inclusion Key was a massive sea change in turning the focus of the Four Keys from benefitting the paying guests to benefitting the paid employees. Why?
Angel Ariel
Well-Known Member
Sure. But we're talking about operating amusement parks here.
Most CM interactions last less than 10 seconds:
"How many? Row 3, please"
"Stay to your right, folks!"
"That'll be 8 dollars and 20 cents, please. Are you kids having a fun day?"
Even in longer, more involved interactions with like a waitress or front desk clerk, I'm struggling to imagine a scenario where common courtesy and basic professionalism doesn't plaster over any CM's personal opinions. CM opinions/attitudes such as... how ugly the guests hairdo is, or how they hate the sports team the guests t-shirt is advertising, or how offensive the political bumper sticker is on the guests car they are valet parking, or how difficult the guest's accent is to understand, or how they disapprove of two men holding hands at a restaurant table.
I don't need the CM selling me a Dole Whip to approve of who I sleep with or who I voted for or which God I pray to. I just need that CM to look nice, smile at me and say thank you, and process the transaction smoothly and efficiently. It seems we are over thinking this just a tad, and that the Courtesy Key covers almost everything that the Inclusion Key covers for customer interactions.
Which kind of proves my point that this Inclusion Key was a massive sea change in turning the focus of the Four Keys from benefitting the paying guests to benefitting the paid employees. Why?
Inclusion is about way more than LGBTQIA+ population. And I already explained to you how CMs having actual inclusion training could have significantly impacted my paying guest experience, and that it goes beyond the Courtesy Key. You're choosing not to hear it.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
I hear you actually. It's just that I've had many decades of experience being a Disney theme park guest. In your specific example of using a speech machine to get around not having verbal communication, that seems to be a training issue to me. People being deaf and/or unable to verbally communicate is nothing new, and good training programs have taught customer service employees how to handle that situation graciously and appropriately. A smile and a pad of paper and pencil offered to the customer usually does the trick.
That's something that's been around since at least the 1970's, when people using sign language were increasingly going out in society instead of staying at home or sheltered in a care facility. And to commiserate with you, I think the training of CM's has increasingly become sloppy and ineffective. You can see it in more and more CM interactions and behaviors; they simply aren't as professional and well trained as they used to be. Likely they aren't as well supervised in their work locations after their training either.
In my decades of experience going to Disney theme parks in America, I can't think of a situation involving bad service from a CM that wouldn't have been fixed by simply being more Courteous and professional. Especially now that Disney lets gay men dance together at park dance floors and hotel bars. To now add the vague concept of "Inclusion" onto that framework of basic customer service tasks seems silly when it's just quick, basic interactions at a busy amusement park.
Just be nice to people! It's not actually rocket science, it's just Space Mountain.
DisneyHead123
Well-Known Member
I assume it’s because the alternative would be to pay their employees more. Instead they assure them that they are benefiting from their awesome, progressive (and free!) mindset.Which kind of proves my point that this Inclusion Key was a massive sea change in turning the focus of the Four Keys from benefitting the paying guests to benefitting the paid employees. Why?
TP2000
Well-Known Member
That suspicion has been sinking in around me too. Talk is cheap. Words are free. Inclusion!
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
That’s not it. Good customer service and courtesy are not equal to inclusion in this context. You are right about the employees part. That’s true. DEI work is mainly focused in the workplace.Just to make sure the definition hadn't changed (it hadn't), I looked it up in my Funk & Wagnalls:
Inclusion - noun
1. the action or state of including or of being included within a group or structure.
2. the practice or policy of providing equal access to opportunities and resources for people who might otherwise be excluded or marginalized, such as those who have physical or mental disabilities and members of other minority groups.
That sounds like great stuff to me! And it's exactly what I thought we were talking about here for the past few weeks when we were discussing "Inclusion". Turns out I'm not as dumb as some here think I am!
Although, I still don't know how "Inclusion" differs from the Courtesy Key when it comes to operating Space Mountain or selling a Dole Whip to a customer at the Tiki Room. Which gets to my point that this Inclusion thing seems primarily (and vapidly) aimed at the employees, rather than the paying customers. Which is a huge sea change from the past 60 years of the other Four Keys, which were designed to guide CM's in the expert operation of theme parks.
I wouldn’t say it’s a huge leap from the purpose of the other four keys. Its well-known that if employees feel comfortable at work, feel that their work environment is healthy and friendly, and feel genuinely appreciated, they will be likely be more inclined to be happy to show up to work and their work will be of quality. Happier employees means happier clients, customers, guests, etc.
DisneyHead123
Well-Known Member
I do think the other side of that equation is that a certain degree of Wokeness, or whatever you want to call it, is already social currency for the Tik Tok generation. Disney didn’t create that dynamic, it was already there. And the reasons why this particular style has a lot of subjective value for Millennials is no doubt complex.
That said, while Disney didn’t turn this style into the equivalent of subjective cash, they seem to have no problem paying their employees in it. (Press scandals no doubt play a role too, as I’m sure they like most companies really try to avoid being excoriated by the media - in a sense this same subjective currency works there as well.)
Vegas Disney Fan
Well-Known Member
I’ve worked in casinos in Las Vegas for 20 years and agree with this, my feelings about how someone lives their life are irrelevant as long as I treat them the same as the guest before them and the guest after them.
I think the concept of inclusion has changed over the years from treating everyone equally to being pressured into approving of lifestyles whether you agree with them or not, and if you don’t cave to that pressure you just may be cancelled.
Angel Ariel
Well-Known Member
Yes, it’s a training thing. And the Inclusion Key is about training.I hear you actually. It's just that I've had many decades of experience being a Disney theme park guest. In your specific example of using a speech machine to get around not having verbal communication, that seems to be a training issue to me. People being deaf and/or unable to verbally communicate is nothing new, and good training programs have taught customer service employees how to handle that situation graciously and appropriately. A smile and a pad of paper and pencil offered to the customer usually does the trick.
That's something that's been around since at least the 1970's, when people using sign language were increasingly going out in society instead of staying at home or sheltered in a care facility. And to commiserate with you, I think the training of CM's has increasingly become sloppy and ineffective. You can see it in more and more CM interactions and behaviors; they simply aren't as professional and well trained as they used to be. Likely they aren't as well supervised in their work locations after their training either.
In my decades of experience going to Disney theme parks in America, I can't think of a situation involving bad service from a CM that wouldn't have been fixed by simply being more Courteous and professional. Especially now that Disney lets gay men dance together at park dance floors and hotel bars. To now add the vague concept of "Inclusion" onto that framework of basic customer service tasks seems silly when it's just quick, basic interactions at a busy amusement park.
Just be nice to people! It's not actually rocket science, it's just Space Mountain.
Courtesy training alone isn’t enough, especially for those who are disabled. Inclusion training provides the information that helps to better inform the courtesy and professionalism. They are all intertwined, not separate.
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